Match-Up Discussion - Scorpion Who do you think Scorpion beats right now?

[omooba]

He can't get big punishes off reading the 50/50 right, everything is safe. He can't play footsies against DVorahs buttons (this is Hellfire here, not Ninjutsu). His space control is largely Flame Auras, JiK's, and S3s, all of which are resoundingly less effective in this MU. Also, the nature of the match itself is slanted against his playstyle. DVorah is probably the second worst MU he has.

don't understand what you mean by punish the 50/50's everyone can punish b1 run cancel. but i think i get the rest. especially jik. uppercut just eats that

 

[God Confirm]

MU Tips:

- TP Sais on reaction.
- Telekick xx Sai can be forward dashed to eliminate 50/50 upon blocking.
- Mileena's 50/50s aren't that scary just remember she'll always have meter & practice throw techs.​

yup, I have no issues with her up close its not too unfair in there, its only the Sai zoning I struggle to get in on so that I can beat her.


There is NO way you can react to a Sai with a TP. TP any later than like 3 frames after the animation starts up, she will be able to block you. You guys might be getting confused here and catching Mileenas already in the start up of throwing another Sai. I think to get in with TP you really just have to make a solid read on a timed Sai. d


I've been using Ronin for this match up, he can get in for free fullscreen with Spin, doesn't get outspaced by B11, and punishes her unsafe shit even harder than Scorp.

If it wasn't for Sai's id play this match up with Scorp but her space control and zoning is too much I think, Sai is just such a nice projectile

 

[God Confirm]

don't understand what you mean by punish the 50/50's everyone can punish b1 run cancel. but i think i get the rest. especially jik. uppercut just eats that

with armour though right?

 

[xKhaoTik]

Ninjustu does not beat Kitana at all and I'm more than ready to play any scorpion who wants to convince me otherwise.

Edit: just noticed it said 2 Kitana variations. He doesn't beat assassin at all. No idea on mournful. RS is a maybe

 

[God Confirm]

Ninjustu does not beat Kitana at all and I'm more than ready to play any scorpion who wants to convince me otherwise.

Edit: just noticed it said 2 Kitana variations. He doesn't beat assassin at all. No idea on mournful. RS is a maybe

said 2 Scorpion variations. All 3 Kitana variations though. Why do you think Assassin beats Hellfire at the very least?

 

[xKhaoTik]

said 2 Scorpion variations. All 3 Kitana variations though.

Inferno DEFINITELY doesn't beat her lol. Ninjutsu doesn't beat Assassin. Hellfire idk.

 

[Red Reaper]

I play Mileena as well & she definitely beats him. His lack of good mids in the neutral really hurts him against Piercing. B12 really dominates and all he really has is D4. He has to play off of her which is an issue. Even Ninjutsu's F2 isn't enough.

MU Tips:

- TP Sais on reaction.
- Telekick xx Sai can be forward dashed to eliminate 50/50 upon blocking.
- Mileena's 50/50s aren't that scary just remember she'll always have meter & practice throw techs.​

At what range would you say it's possible to TP Sais on reaction?

Also, what about instant air Sais..?

 

[God Confirm]

Inferno DEFINITELY doesn't beat her lol. Ninjutsu doesn't beat Assassin. Hellfire idk.

the two I was talking about was Ninjutsu and Hellfire. I don't really play Ninjutsu so maybe I'm wrong on that.

 

[God Confirm]

At what range would you say it's possible to TP Sais on reaction?

Also, what about instant air Sais..?

I'm sure that its not possible, even from fullscreen. Because even if you don't get stuffed by the Sai, you get blocked.

 

[xKhaoTik]

the two I was talking about was Ninjutsu and Hellfire. I don't really play Ninjutsu so maybe I'm wrong on that.

Hellfire always felt the toughest. That could be a losing MU, idk. There arent enough hellfires out there. Ninjutsu tho, na. Assassin has literally every tool you want for that match. That's a dead 5-5. They counter each other perfectly. RS does fine too but I'd much rather use Assassin. Mournful is a joke variation so idk lol

 

[Red Reaper]

I'm sure that its not possible, even from fullscreen. Because even if you don't get stuffed by the Sai, you get blocked.

That's what I was thinking, it looks like it would recover quickly but I don't have the game so I kan't check...

We still have fake teleports mixed with real ones so raw zoning shouldn't be a problem. I'd be more worried about her footsies...

 

[Red Reaper]

Hellfire always felt the toughest. That could be a losing MU, idk. There arent enough hellfires out there. Ninjutsu tho, na. Assassin has literally every tool you want for that match. That's a dead 5-5. They counter each other perfectly. RS does fine too but I'd much rather use Assassin. Mournful is a joke variation so idk lol

What makes Hellfire tougher?

 

[OutworldKeith]

Sub still has a 50/50 and a good D4, he's not completely toothless without the Klone. Scorpion, especially in ninjutsu isn't going to really pressure him. Way I see it is they both have mostly unsafe ways of opening each other up, but the difference is once Sub opens Scorpion up, he gets the corner where it is heavily in his advantage, if Scorpion opens sub up, they are put back into a situation pretty similar to before. I think simply because of the reward Sun gains once he opens him up, it makes up for his slight disadvantage in the neutral. Maybe I just haven't played a good ninjutsu. Those are good points so I could see it being bumped down to 5-5, but I honestly don't see Ninjutsu taking this one. That being said with all of what you have mentioned, I can't really see Sub taking it either...

Well this is why we have these discussions because you made valid points as well.

Damage output is definitely a factor in MUs & Scorp overall hits harder than Subz. His 50/50 leads to no damage unless Scorp is cornered. Pressure isn't really his game, but when Subz in cornered what can he do? Jump...s3/F2, armor...F2/B4, clone...completely useless.

 

[xKhaoTik]

What makes Hellfire tougher?

It was only the toughest for me because I never really fought much. I know that other 2 variations like the back of my hand but I'm not too comfortable against hellfire because I haven't fought many. That's why I said I wouldn't deny that being a bad MU, because of that reason

 

[OutworldKeith]

He can't get big punishes off reading the 50/50 right, everything is safe. He can't play footsies against DVorahs buttons (this is Hellfire here, not Ninjutsu). His space control is largely Flame Auras, JiK's, and S3s, all of which are resoundingly less effective in this MU. Also, the nature of the match itself is slanted against his playstyle. DVorah is probably the second worst MU he has.

I definitely agree with this one!

 

[God Confirm]

That's what I was thinking, it looks like it would recover quickly but I don't have the game so I kan't check...

We still have fake teleports mixed with real ones so raw zoning shouldn't be a problem. I'd be more worried about her footsies...

both can get beaten by an Uppercut so its kinda gimmicky to fake teleports. Also, getting in on Mileena with no stamina left as Hellfire isn't really getting on her at all.

What makes Hellfire tougher?

Against Kitana it's really easy to catch her with Flame Aura against basically all of her buttons other than fan, and thats a full combo. He also pressures her hard which may or may not be more important that Ninjutsus footsies.

That being said, I can't imagine why Ninjutsu shouldn't wreck her as well. How does Kitana even play against that? Espio says Scorpion is one of Kit's worst match ups as well, although he plays RS, the same reasons would seem to apply for Assassin too...

 

[OutworldKeith]

yup, I have no issues with her up close its not too unfair in there, its only the Sai zoning I struggle to get in on so that I can beat her.


There is NO way you can react to a Sai with a TP. TP any later than like 3 frames after the animation starts up, she will be able to block you. You guys might be getting confused here and catching Mileenas already in the start up of throwing another Sai. I think to get in with TP you really just have to make a solid read on a timed Sai. d


I've been using Ronin for this match up, he can get in for free fullscreen with Spin, doesn't get outspaced by B11, and punishes her unsafe shit even harder than Scorp.

If it wasn't for Sai's id play this match up with Scorp but her space control and zoning is too much I think, Sai is just such a nice projectile

Not too sure. Gotta do some testing, but I've had Scorp players do it to me before. I picked her up before XL though so that might be the issue.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Hellfire always felt the toughest. That could be a losing MU, idk. There arent enough hellfires out there. Ninjutsu tho, na. Assassin has literally every tool you want for that match. That's a dead 5-5. They counter each other perfectly. RS does fine too but I'd much rather use Assassin. Mournful is a joke variation so idk lol

I agree on the 5-5 Assassin vs Ninjutsu.

 

[Red Reaper]

both can get beaten by an Uppercut so its kinda gimmicky to fake teleports. Also, getting in on Mileena with no stamina left as Hellfire isn't really getting on her at all.



Against Kitana it's really easy to catch her with Flame Aura against basically all of her buttons other than fan, and thats a full combo. He also pressures her hard which may or may not be more important that Ninjutsus footsies.

That being said, I can't imagine why Ninjutsu shouldn't wreck her as well. How does Kitana even play against that? Espio says Scorpion is one of Kit's worst match ups as well, although he plays RS

They kan both be beaten but that's not the point... It's that it forces her to think and stop zoning at least every once in a while. If not, she eats a teleport on her predictable Sais... I tend to use teleporters and kounter-zoners so I know this is significant for getting you in. Even if you hardly use it, the doubt and waiting helps.

Kitana's Armor worries me a little more than other character's armor but I kan see that.

PS: Also, if all you're losing is uppercut damage then it's worth it to challenge her mentally every once in a while.

 

[xKhaoTik]

That being said, I can't imagine why Ninjutsu shouldn't wreck her as well. How does Kitana even play against that? Espio says Scorpion is one of Kit's worst match ups as well, although he plays RS

I'm speaking for Assassin in this post.

Ninjutsu is all about the foosties. F2 and B2 mainly. Kitana punishes f2 with throat slice. It's only safe when spaced properly, but even then, I get a d1 check. And even if that's not enough, parry checks it just fine. That alone makes it scary to throw it out. B2 gets bopped and Kitana hits hard, especially in this variation. Mixing up iAfs with parry makes it hard for the scorpion to teleport, and again, Kitana hits hard in this variation. Assassin strike is a good move to use in the neutral after mixing it up with runs because there's no way you're reacting to the difference. If it hits, you're right in my face and I get to activate sharpen. Scorpions love meeting players in the air and Kitana is the wrong player to do that against, especially since my j2 is faster than your jump ins.

Don't get me wrong. Not at all saying Kitana wins. Just saying she is perfectly fine in the MU. We still have to deal with your annoying d4. Teleport will always be a threat, even with our options against it. The low starter (b3?) is a perfect answer to parry. You hit just as hard meterlessly as we do.

Blake and KP just played a set yesterday and KP won that convincingly. Watch it if you get the chance

 

[OutworldKeith]

@God Confirm @xKhaoTik
Really good ESL match of Assassin vs Ninjutsu.

 

[xKhaoTik]

@God Confirm @xKhaoTik
Really good ESL match of Assassin vs Ninjutsu.

Yea i just posted about that lol. Saw it yesterday. Both played it well and knew exactly what to do

 

[OutworldKeith]

I'm speaking for Assassin in this post.

Ninjutsu is all about the foosties. F2 and B2 mainly. Kitana punishes f2 with throat slice. It's only safe when spaced properly, but even then, I get a d1 check. And even if that's not enough, parry checks it just fine. That alone makes it scary to throw it out. B2 gets bopped and Kitana hits hard, especially in this variation. Mixing up iAfs with parry makes it hard for the scorpion to teleport, and again, Kitana hits hard in this variation. Assassin strike is a good move to use in the neutral after mixing it up with runs because there's no way you're reacting to the difference. If it hits, you're right in my face and I get to activate sharpen. Scorpions love meeting players in the air and Kitana is the wrong player to do that against, especially since my j2 is faster than your jump ins.

Don't get me wrong. Not at all saying Kitana wins. Just saying she is perfectly fine in the MU. We still have to deal with your annoying d4. Teleport will always be a threat, even with our options against it. The low starter (b3?) is a perfect answer to parry. You hit just as hard meterlessly as we do.

Blake and KP just played a set yesterday and KP won that convincingly. Watch it if you get the chance

It was close but a very entertaining MU nonetheless.

 

[BlackJackSnack]

Yeah I only play Raiden and I always have trouble with scorp, although I could just not know the matchup super well

 

[xKhaoTik]

It was close but a very entertaining MU nonetheless.

My only issue was KP wasn't punishing f2 at all. Maybe he wasn't comfortable because the punish is kinda tight