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Match-up Discussion WhiteBoi's Doomsday MU Chart

Yoaks

Yoaks

A spaceman
Lobo gets run-over by Doomsday! I've played this mulitple times with @Eldriken and he beats me pretty regularly. It's a match-up I generally like playing cause of how I have to play.

Lobo has a tough time even approaching Doomsday. Doomsday can just turtle if he doesnt have meter and read a dash in and do a raw charge on reaction getting some meter and a KD. Hook Charge as a wakeup is only good when the DD player is over zealous but Eldriken plays a really patient and really good Doomsday.

Lobo also can't really deal with DD's trait very well. Doing something like 2,1 xx MB Shotgun can eat away some time but than DD gets a punish anyways. Blocking until trait is gone is pretty much the best option to deal with it, but thats fine with DD since he's gaining meter while hes doing his thing.

In the corner... game over.

Lobo's only chances is when he blocks an ES/MB Hook Charge gets blocked and now DD as to guess/Lobo scores a HKD. But even with all this, if DD guesses right it's back to neutral where DD has an advantage.

What's really frustrating in this match-up is that DD wake-up's are actually good in this mu. Lobo has to guess on which wake-up he's gonna do which is tough since Up-Venom is fully invincible where is others are not and can get stuffed easily. But thats the problem. trying to bait something like Up-venom = your gonna have DD wakeup MB Charge and now the tables have turned back to DD favor. If you do space yourself right you can stuff his wake-up charge plus avoid the up-venom and punish him on the way down, but he could MB the charge early but with him doing that Lobo or anybody really; can MB f3/b3 but this doesn't effect the match-up at all.

This is probably my "Personal" worst match-up, but I don't think it's a 7-3 for DD (just yet).

Tagging some ppl that I know that have some match-up exp.
@GGA Saucy Jack
@GGA Fill Pops
@Decay II
 
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Decay

Decay

King of the Bill
It's a bad matchup for lobo I agree but it's much easier offline. I mean, earth shaker is unblockable online anyway. But I do agree with you @Yoaksssss it's very difficult for me too. I used to have a lot of problems with zoners but I realized any character that has great wake up options can eliminate lobo's oki, and I feel like doomsday wakes up almost every time lol. I mean I have problems with teleporting characters too but at least the teleport just creates distance.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
RiBBz22 said:
What you just described sounds really bad for the DD player. I understand conditioning people to get options to work in your favor, but trying for a low damage oki setup at the risk of eating full combo into 50-50 if the KF player reads it correctly sounds bad. It is much harder to condition someone who has several options. Also, the DD player should not be able to throw a good KF player out of parry because KF players should be inputting parry as DB 1+3 which will work as an option select to tech DD's throw.
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Doomsday doesn't have any high damage oki setups anyway...

This isn't something to do EVERY single time. You obviously mix it up.

If I notice a KF player likes to parry a lot after I block a slide or after they block MB Venom, I'm going to sweep them or throw them. Now, they're obviously not going to go for a parry attempt every time and will change it up accordingly, but I don't know when they're going to do that. So, I have to naturally take a guess/risk in what I do. They could do MB f3 instead of a parry attempt because they guess that I'm going to throw them or sweep them and I get blown up.

I've also never come across a Frost player that has OS teched me after they parried and I attempted to throw them. I didn't even know it was possible. I'll have to keep that in mind from now on. So, I appreciate you mentioning that.
 
Immortal Kombat

Immortal Kombat

almost moderate success
SonicBoomBrad said:
Every character in the game has to deal with a d1 ES attempt after MB venom besides Raven and WW. On both of these characters if they hold back, the best I get is a d1 check guaranteed no interruption or risks involved on my end. Worst case scenario, they backdash and I don't get shit. If I go for the ES on either of these two and they're walking back however, it whiffs and they can both punish me for around 40%. Now I can choose to stop them from walking back by sweeping, but sweep is 11 frames. Therefore they can d1 me out of my sweep, and there's a risk involved. I know that online frames don't really matter so you can get away with shit. But that's how it works offline.

Sintestro is actually worse cause all the dude has to do is tap back and he's out of d1 ES range.
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More than raven and ww. Flash and cw can hold back to get out of mb venom, d1 es. I know theres more. I think all the floating characters get out free and can punish. Thats why i think flash is a bad mu. If you do mb venom, flash has you exactly where he wants you. You have to start using f2, or d1, throw which can end badly for you if they know its coming
 
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Eldriken

Guest
Peckapowa said:
i still think martian beats that fucker

and i heard tom brady is quite beastly at the dd matchup
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Naaah. It's definitely even.

Doomsday's one of the few characters who can say "Fuck you" to his orb setups midscreen, whether it be from MB Venom or trait.

If Doomsday knocks him down in the corner, he either has to block correctly or throw out MB orbs to blow up a wake up reversal attempt. You can reverse his force push wake up, scoop wake up and if he tries to do a teleport wake up, you can d1 him out of it.

However, once MMH knocks Doomsday down in the corner, he has a very hard time getting out of his setups.

I have heard the same thing you have about Tom Brady being great at the Doomsday MU. I had the luxury of playing him quite a few months back and he did a very good job. I beat him a few times, but it wasn't exactly easy. He tended to hand me my ass quite badly at times.
 
cR_whiteboi

cR_whiteboi

Jobbers are mouthpieces for gods.
Immortal Kombat said:
We are one of the few characters that gets in on aquaman for free. I feel its easy to corner him. From there neutral jumps and reversing his wakeups put you at an advantage. Ftd is easily punished if he doesnt do it full screen. As long as AM doesnt knock you down and keep momentum by blowing up your wakeups i think we win that one. No offense man but dont you wonder why the best AM in the world wont play him against you? I believe this is why
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Iirc his exact quote was "I wanted a better 6-4" @EMPEROR_THEO
Now what you said about the corner is true, it's the only place doomsday wins that mu. FTD only is easily punished from within venom range. So anywhere else he is fine. Pushblock as aqua is pretty good option to get doomie off him in the corner, if the aqua doesn't wanna play the post Es game, which in his case is a bad game to play.
Trait also helps alot for aqua in the corner and post venom. IMO Everywhere else in this mu aquaman holds the advantage.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
Eldriken said:
Naaah. It's definitely even.

Doomsday's one of the few characters who can say "Fuck you" to his orb setups midscreen, whether it be from MB Venom or trait.

If Doomsday knocks him down in the corner, he either has to block correctly or throw out MB orbs to blow up a wake up reversal attempt. You can reverse his force push wake up, scoop wake up and if he tries to do a teleport wake up, you can d1 him out of it.

However, once MMH knocks Doomsday down in the corner, he has a very hard time getting out of his setups.

I have heard the same thing you have about Tom Brady being great at the Doomsday MU. I had the luxury of playing him quite a few months back and he did a very good job. I beat him a few times, but it wasn't exactly easy. He tended to hand me my ass quite badly at times.
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play my martian, you won't find a better one at the bane or doomsday matchups, i feel that doomsday's midscreen guessing game is in martian's favor due to damage and risk/reward, i feel that with a lifelead martian can corner himself for the win, he gets up more easily than others in the corner, and has good tools to stall and due damage to doomsdays trait. People don't realize you can poke out of anything He also controls interactables. Doomsday can't just get in for free, i like to footsie outside shoulder range with meter and whiff punish mb shoulder.

i also feel he has a huge adv in bane.
 
RelentlessOhio

RelentlessOhio

Divekick x 1000
I can see your point about AM's trait being useful because many DD players don't use juggle combos much. I've seen you do them quite a bit though, so the trait could be useless almost depending on how you use the corners.
 
Immortal Kombat

Immortal Kombat

almost moderate success
Tm_whiteboi said:
Iirc his exact quote was "I wanted a better 6-4" @EMPEROR_THEO
Now what you said about the corner is true, it's the only place doomsday wins that mu. FTD only is easily punished from within venom range. So anywhere else he is fine. Pushblock as aqua is pretty good option to get doomie off him in the corner, if the aqua doesn't wanna play the post Es game, which in his case is a bad game to play.
Trait also helps alot for aqua in the corner and post venom. IMO Everywhere else in this mu aquaman holds the advantage.
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I can respect that for sure. I think maybe its because i tend to stick with 3,3 tech against am. Trait wont work against it and aquaman doesnt get pushes back far enough to punish. Free d1,es even if he blocks it. If he dashes out of it(which good ones will) its the same post guessing game as what they do after they block venom.
I still think dd wins it though, aquamans walk back alot which obviously benefits us.
 
cR_whiteboi

cR_whiteboi

Jobbers are mouthpieces for gods.
Immortal Kombat said:
I can respect that for sure. I think maybe its because i tend to stick with 3,3 tech against am. Trait wont work against it and aquaman doesnt get pushes back far enough to punish. Free d1,es even if he blocks it. If he dashes out of it(which good ones will) its the same post guessing game as what they do after they block venom.
I still think dd wins it though, aquamans walk back alot which obviously benefits us.
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I respect your opinion on it. It could be a 5-5 for sure, but I went with the safe option in this mu.
 
SonicBoomBrad

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
Immortal Kombat said:
More than raven and ww. Flash and cw can hold back to get out of mb venom, d1 es. I know theres more. I think all the floating characters get out free and can punish. Thats why i think flash is a bad mu. If you do mb venom, flash has you exactly where he wants you. You have to start using f2, or d1, throw which can end badly for you if they know its coming
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Yeah there's hella characters that can do it but WW, Raven, and Sinestro all get out super free, and have really good punishes for it. I think it only happens with Flash at certain distances and depending on when you mb the venom. It's weird shit. ES also whiffs on Harley from like right in her face.
 
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