Where's the 3D-era characters?

[stokedAF]

Who says they can't bring him back as traditional Raiden; a proper god?

The time thing affects god’s differently. That’s why his double disappeared.

 

[Juxtapose]

The time thing affects god’s differently. That’s why his double disappeared.

Sure, but that still doesn't matter. Just in case people come into this thread who haven't completed Story Mode yet:

Spoiler: Story Mode Ending Spoilers

There are three endings to Mortal Kombat 11, and we have no idea which is the canonical one. Let's look at all the possibilities:

Best Ending: Fire God Liu Kang and Kitana are shaping the Sands of Time. It's entirely possible that Liu Kang, who likes and admires his mentor, would we've him in to the new time line.

Mid Ending: Fire God Liu Kang is shaping the Sands of Time with Mortal Raiden's guidance. They're way back at the dawn of time, and mortal Raiden can only live so long. It's entirely possible Liu Kang would place Raiden to appear as a god again down the road, once mortal Raiden has past.

Worst Ending: Fire God Liu Kang is killed by Kronika, and she starts her New Era. She's always brought Raiden back in the innumerable timelines she's created before, she may do so again. She promised Shao Kahn and the Revenants that she wouldn't, but she doesn't seem the promise-keeping-sort and was absolutely manipulating them. She basically says to Revenant Liu Kang that Shao Kahn was merely a distraction for past Raiden and his allies to focus on while she moved forward with her true plans.

So, lots of chances for Raiden to come back.

 

[GrandMasterson]

I think Frost failed to impress on her return, i actually think she is far worse than her DA interaction.

100% agreed, she has such a boring look now. She has the same problem as Geras and Cetrion; they look like shitty comic book characters from Injustice.

 

[Stevie Steelz]

Id like to see an updated havic. That character always looked so cool to me

Havik is easily my favorite out of all of the 3D era characters, as well as being one of the most requested.

 

[Juxtapose]

Havik is easily my favorite out of all of the 3D era characters, as well as being one of the most requested.

He is indeed being asked for a lot now. It wouldn't surprise me if we see him down the road, or in the next title worst case.

 

[Megax Rocker]

Kenshi, Shinnok, Onaga, Havik, Hotaru, Shujinko, Quan Chi, Tremor, Fujin, and Ashrah are the best IMO.

Just waiting for Ed Boon to troll us with Ultra Instinct Mokap or some other BS.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Havik is easily my favorite out of all of the 3D era characters, as well as being one of the most requested.

While he fared exceptionally well in the poll we've had over here (surpassing all non-ninja characters and a FEW ninja characters to boot), whenever Ed tweets something MK related, the majority of fans ask Smoke/Rain/Mileena. Those three names are the ones I saw the most via requests.

 

[Juxtapose]

While he fared exceptionally well in the poll we've had over here (surpassing all non-ninja characters and a FEW ninja characters to boot), whenever Ed tweets something MK related, the majority of fans ask Smoke/Rain/Mileena. Those three names are the ones I saw the most via requests.

I wouldn't expect either of those three until the next game at least.

 

[SaSSolino]

Yeah, I'd like to see some 3D era characters coming back myself. We really don't need the whole special forces army in every roster, let's have them make some space.

Personally I'd love to see Sareena back.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I wouldn't expect either of those three until the next game at least.

Oh, I agree. I'm just saying that requests for any other characters usually get buried under those asking for those three.

 

[ItsYaBoi]

Yeah, I'd like to see some 3D era characters coming back myself. We really don't need the whole special forces army in every roster, let's have them make some space.

Personally I'd love to see Sareena back.

Agreed on the first point. Too many SF characters, especially when most SF characters are boring as fuck.

inb4 somebody says 'but too many ninjas'. Listen, they aren't palette swaps anymore, they look unique and they all have entirely unique movesets. SF characters borrow from each others moveset a fair bit and it's fucking boring.

Do we really need Johnny, Sonya AND Cassie in the same game? This is after MKX which they were all in too. Go the full mile, grow some balls, and make Cassie a dedicated hybrid of the two and remove Johnny/Sonya OR get rid of one of the three at least. Same goes for Jax and Jacqui.

The neglect that the 3D characters get is fucking annoying. I've been a fan of MK since MK1, a long time fan, but even I'm sick of seeing classic characters always get the attention. We have to partially move on at some point, and half of the new characters are dogshit. NRS has an ample supply of decent 3D characters to draw from, with the talent now to recreate those with interesting lore/designs but boring movesets.

Li Mei, Hotaru, Havik, Ashrah, Shujinko (can literally use him as a blank slate to create an entirely new moveset), Drahmin, Onaga. I even trust NRS to revamp some of the shitter characters like Kira, Kobra and Hsu Hao (not even joking). For all the shit Hsu Hao gets he is still more interesting to me than Cetrion - who is hands down the worst character ever created. Poison Ivy with more elements thrown in. Genius. Least Hsu Hao was some Korean representation.

But nah, let's put Sonya, Johnny, Cassie, Jax and Jacqui in MK12 yeah bois?

 

[Nickolaidas]

While I'm also on board the 'fuck the Hsu Hao hate' train, I cannot imagine what they could do to differentiate him from Kano. As long as Kano didn't have laser beam moves and had stuck with his curveball / knife attacks, Hsu Hao could've played with the laser stuff and be different enough. But now Kano has Hsu Hao's specials, and I don't see how he can be his own thing without being wholly re-invented.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

Most of the 3D characters are pretty lame. There's like one or two standouts from each roster. I still think Bo Rai'Cho would be dope if not for the toilet humor

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

DLC characters aren't Story Mode/story canon, so I doubt it.

I think this is usually the case, but maybe not always. Definitely for guest characters. But, with the crazy time shenanigans I think almost anything could be canon. On the Shang Tsung Kombat Kast, Stephanie had a lore explanation for how he appeared, where he was, and what he was doing during the events of MK11.

 

[ItsYaBoi]

While I'm also on board the 'fuck the Hsu Hao hate' train, I cannot imagine what they could do to differentiate him from Kano. As long as Kano didn't have laser beam moves and had stuck with his curveball / knife attacks, Hsu Hao could've played with the laser stuff and be different enough. But now Kano has Hsu Hao's specials, and I don't see how he can be his own thing without being wholly re-invented.

That is true. Just after Kenshi got shown for MK9 I said that Hsu Hao could be interesting with his chest laser on a 2D plane, but they have just implemented that into Kano now :/

Controversial, but give Kano a break for a game and give Hsu Hao a chance? Mix up his moveset slightly so it isn't just Kano, come up with some new things for him too. I just think with the right creative juice there is some potential there.

Same with Drahmin actually, I like Baraka. He's my boi. But you could have Baraka sit out MK12 and get Drahmin in as the close range savage. Put that club arm to good use.

 

[Juxtapose]

Oh, I agree. I'm just saying that requests for any other characters usually get buried under those asking for those three.

Ah, yes indeed. The simply truth is those three characters are far more popular than all the 3D characters combined. I myself would love to see Mileena make a return, but again, I don't expect her in Mortal Kombat 11.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

Most of the 3D characters are pretty lame. There's like one or two standouts from each roster. I still think Bo Rai'Cho would be dope if not for the toilet humor

Absolutely. Maybe they could just scale that back into a cool drunken master archetype, cut back on the farting and pissing and puking

 

[Juxtapose]

I think this is usually the case, but maybe not always. Definitely for guest characters. But, with the crazy time shenanigans I think almost anything could be canon. On the Shang Tsung Kombat Kast, Stephanie had a lore explanation for how he appeared, where he was, and what he was doing during the events of MK11.

I shall need to check that out, as I missed much of that Kombat Kast (was at work).

Generally though, unless it proves to be canon (verified by the next game or what-not), I'd still treat non-guest DLC appearances as non-canon.

Look at Triborg. Very cool character, not a guest character, but not canon.

 

[ItsYaBoi]

Absolutely. Maybe they could just scale that back into a cool drunken master archetype, cut back on the farting and pissing and puking

This too. It was never funny, but you could excuse it during the 3D era a bit.

Just make him a fat drunken master who is fast and badass with a staff. That's it.

Oh, and also add an alternate skin for a Young Bo Rai Cho, where he is actually in shape and pretty muscular. If they keep the belly bounce move, then simply say that Young Bo Rai Cho uses his rock hard six pack to bounce off the ground.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I think this is usually the case, but maybe not always. Definitely for guest characters. But, with the crazy time shenanigans I think almost anything could be canon. On the Shang Tsung Kombat Kast, Stephanie had a lore explanation for how he appeared, where he was, and what he was doing during the events of MK11.

Too bad that the intro dialogues of Shang Tsung completely disregard 16Bit's lore exposition dump.

I mean, 16Bit said that Shang Tsung was brought back by Kronika but then was imprisoned (or exiled, I think?) immediately afterwards because Kronika didn't trust him. And when Kronika died, Shang Tsung was freed and started doing his thing. But when Shang Tsung confronts characters like Cetrion and Shao Kahn, he speaks as if he's working for Kronika. So … wtf?

 

[ItsYaBoi]

Too bad that the intro dialogues of Shang Tsung completely disregard 16Bit's lore exposition dump.

I mean, 16Bit said that Shang Tsung was brought back by Kronika but then was imprisoned (or exiled, I think?) immediately afterwards because Kronika didn't trust him. And when Kronika died, Shang Tsung was freed and started doing his thing. But when Shang Tsung confronts characters like Cetrion and Shao Kahn, he speaks as if he's working for Kronika. So … wtf?

I'm still pissed off that my theory about Shang having consumed the soul of Chameleon didn't end up being true.

Would have made sense too considering the identical ninja costumes (I know they did this because of memory limitations, but would have been a good way of explaining it).

Ahhh well.

 

[Juxtapose]

Too bad that the intro dialogues of Shang Tsung completely disregard 16Bit's lore exposition dump.

I mean, 16Bit said that Shang Tsung was brought back by Kronika but then was imprisoned (or exiled, I think?) immediately afterwards because Kronika didn't trust him. And when Kronika died, Shang Tsung was freed and started doing his thing. But when Shang Tsung confronts characters like Cetrion and Shao Kahn, he speaks as if he's working for Kronika. So … wtf?

Shame. So yeah, DLC characters, treat them as non-canon unless formally stated otherwise. Always the safest bet.

 

[KeyserSoze]

The 3d era was the least popular, most heavily criticized era of MK. I wouldn't expect to see many 3d era characters returning anytime soon.

There's a reason MK9 was essentially a series reboot.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

Too bad that the intro dialogues of Shang Tsung completely disregard 16Bit's lore exposition dump.

I mean, 16Bit said that Shang Tsung was brought back by Kronika but then was imprisoned (or exiled, I think?) immediately afterwards because Kronika didn't trust him. And when Kronika died, Shang Tsung was freed and started doing his thing. But when Shang Tsung confronts characters like Cetrion and Shao Kahn, he speaks as if he's working for Kronika. So … wtf?

Oh damn. I guess I haven't seen much of those dialogues yet. Her explanation sounded so reasonable I was just ready to accept it

I think what this thread is crystallizing in my mind is I think MK11, while a great roster in terms of variety of player fantasy and style, sort of has a good guy/bad guy problem. A lot of the characters have are easily identifiable as either "heroes" or "villains" rather than a collection of people with different motivations and goals. The recent era of MK games have trended that way, as the stories have become less about actual tournaments (where you have a lot of competitors who are there for their own reasons) and more about big good vs. evil struggles. Plus, it feels like to me a lot of the "bad guys" don't have a lot of personality. You've got the standard mercs-for-hire in the Black Dragon guys, who vary in terms of cruelty but are basically just goons. Kollector is another underling, his background is interesting but doesn't really come up in any story context (i.e. surely his relationship with Shao is pretty complicated given that Shao enslaved and subjugated his people). The main villain isn't even on the roster, so instead we get Geras -- super amazing design and theme, but is basically a tool for Kronika, no personal traits just a relentless murder golem. Cetrion is an elder god who seems good in every single way, but also Kronika is her...mom? So she has to be bad because of that, I guess? Frost and Dvorah actually do fit my criteria in that they have their own goals but are working with the group that can further those.

That ended up being more long winded than I expected, but basically I'm happy Shang is back as a good charismatic villain Are there any good villains or characters with interesting motivations from the 3D era that you would like to see back?

 

[Juxtapose]

@CorneliusBrutus For Mortal Kombat 11, keep in mind we had the klash of past and present characters, so we had a lot of good guy/bad guy contrast in that sense. The face off between Liu Kang and Kung Lao and their Revenants, as well as between Jax and PTSD Jax I thought was very well done. I also really liked how it turned out that Revenant Liu Kang wasn't entirely wrong about Raiden, and past Liu Kang ultimately realized that.

For the villains, I personally have always found Kano and Kabal pretty meh and more just thugs; so they're keeping in-character here. Kollector I simply don't like at all, I don't think he's a good character and I'd have no issue with him never returning.

I actually think that Kronika is a pretty interesting villain. Keep in mind Shao Kahn, one of the main antagonists of the franchise, was just a "grrr... I konquer worlds" kind of villain when he was first introduced. His character, back story, and motives (and suspected motives) evolved more as the games went on. Similar with Shang Tsung. Assuming we see Kronika again, there'll be more development I'm sure.

Also, while she's the "villain," keep in mind as the Keeper of Time it's not actually conclusively stated that she is "bad," simply that the characters we identify as "good guys" are opposed to her restarting time, despite the fact that she's done so already countless times. Having said that though, the fact that she conscripts and allies with much of the "bad guy" characters lends credit to her being bad and not morally ambiguous.

For Cetrion, she falls into the above paragraph. As a god and the daughter of Kronika, she's following her mother's wishes because she believes what her mother is doing is right. So is she bad, misguided, or doing what should be done?