Where's the 3D-era characters?

[CorneliusBrutus]

@CorneliusBrutus For Mortal Kombat 11, keep in mind we had the klash of past and present characters, so we had a lot of good guy/bad guy contrast in that sense. The face off between Liu Kang and Kung Lao and their Revenants, as well as between Jax and PTSD Jax I thought was very well done. I also really liked how it turned out that Revenant Liu Kang wasn't entirely wrong about Raiden, and past Liu Kang ultimately realized that.

For the villains, I personally have always found Kano and Kabal pretty meh and more just thugs; so they're keeping in-character here. Kollector I simply don't like at all, I don't think he's a good character and I'd have no issue with him never returning.

I actually think that Kronika is a pretty interesting villain. Keep in mind Shao Kahn, one of the main antagonists of the franchise, was just a "grrr... I konquer worlds" kind of villain when he was first introduced. His character, back story, and motives (and suspected motives) evolved more as the games went on. Similar with Shang Tsung. Assuming we see Kronika again, there'll be more development I'm sure.

Also, while she's the "villain," keep in mind as the Keeper of Time it's not actually conclusively stated that she is "bad," simply that the characters we identify as "good guys" are opposed to her restarting time, despite the fact that she's done so already countless times. Having said that though, the fact that she conscripts and allies with much of the "bad guy" characters lends credit to her being bad and not morally ambiguous.

For Cetrion, she falls into the above paragraph. As a god and the daughter of Kronika, she's following her mother's wishes because she believes what her mother is doing is right. So is she bad, misguided, or doing what should be done?

Well we differ on the first point at least. The revenant characters feel a little cheap to me because of how soon you realize you're getting the regular ones back and the revenants are immediately redundant. It's not really clear to me what their goal is besides doing Netherrealm stuff.

However, note I'm not necessarily considering the story in this good guy/bad guy criticism. I do think MK11's story is overall pretty solid, and Kronika isn't really "evil" by any definition -- in fact it's a nice inversion to know that she's probably justified in her actions as the time keeper and Raiden really had gone too far in many ways. My Kronika criticism is we don't have her on the roster so we have Geras as the stand-in, who doesn't have the same charisma. Basically, my ideal fighting game roster is a few people who are identifiably heroes, a few people who are identifiably villains, and a pile of others (the majority) who you could probably classify one way or the other but they have their own motivations. That's why the "fighting competition/tournament" is such a convenient (and frequently used) plot device for this game genre, it's an easy way to justify having a bunch of characters with diverse backgrounds thrown together and interacting with each other. So I feel like MK11 has too many polarized characters and the villain archetypes aren't very charismatic or intriguing.

 

[Juxtapose]

Well we differ on the first point at least. The revenant characters feel a little cheap to me because of how soon you realize you're getting the regular ones back and the revenants are immediately redundant. It's not really clear to me what their goal is besides doing Netherrealm stuff.

However, note I'm not necessarily considering the story in this good guy/bad guy criticism. I do think MK11's story is overall pretty solid, and Kronika isn't really "evil" by any definition -- in fact it's a nice inversion to know that she's probably justified in her actions as the time keeper and Raiden really had gone too far in many ways. My Kronika criticism is we don't have her on the roster so we have Geras as the stand-in, who doesn't have the same charisma. Basically, my ideal fighting game roster is a few people who are identifiably heroes, a few people who are identifiably villains, and a pile of others (the majority) who you could probably classify one way or the other but they have their own motivations. That's why the "fighting competition/tournament" is such a convenient (and frequently) plot device for this game genre, it's an easy way to justify having a bunch of characters with diverse backgrounds thrown together and interacting with each other. So I feel like MK11 has too many polarized characters and the villain archetypes aren't very charismatic or intriguing.

Ah, I see what you mean. Personally, I really liked the Revenants, and how they're twisted versions of the usual good guys. They've done some bad stuff, and even when Shinnok is defeated and Quan Chi killed, they still stay "bad." I also like, in Mortal Kombat 11, the delusional justifications they constantly spew out to, well, justify their desire to destroy all life. I found it all a very interesting contrast.

For Kronika, I didn't have an issue with Geras myself, and actually found it rather interesting: the fact that she needed to create Geras shows that she isn't all-powerful. Something we learn as the game progresses overall.

 

[trufenix]

The fact that nobody is really taking this as an excellent opportunity to shine for Frost is exactly why all those others will be relegated to endings and konsumables for the rest of eternity.

 

[VSC_Supreme]

No one disrespects the 3D era characters more than NRS. I personally think there's a lot of potential to re-invent many of the 3D era characters and give em more of personality and arche-type that really doesn't exist for most of them in the 3D games.

I don't think they all need to come back but I'd like to see them embrace and do new things with some of them. Have Li-Mei once again trained by Bo-rai-cho but specialize in kicks Chun-Li style. Or Kobra be a Cheesy lame Ken Masters clone, but with something else to him. I like Frost's return but think her pointed ice hair should have been the default skin.

We get it NRS, you hate Hsu Hao and he's dead, what else can you do with the 3D era?

Edit: I'm also not advocating for a whole cast of 3D era characters either. 2-3 in a new game with 1 more as DLC is fine with me. MKX had it almost right IMO. Kenshi, Bo-rai-cho, Li-Mei and Frost in the story, and the semi-3D characters in Quan chi, Tanya and Shinnok.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I'm still holding out hope that most of the remaining classic characters being assists means that the majority of the MK characters in KP2 and (hopefully) KP3 are going to be 3D era characters.

Shame about Cyrax and Sektor though.

 

[Juxtapose]

I'm still holding out hope that most of the remaining classic characters being assists means that the majority of the MK characters in KP2 and (hopefully) KP3 are going to be 3D era characters.

Shame about Cyrax and Sektor though.

Honestly, I'd expect Cyrax and Sektor before almost all of the 3D characters. Aside from being very popular characters, they have models and assets already in the game.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Honestly, I'd expect Cyrax and Sektor before almost all of the 3D characters. Aside from being very popular characters, they have models and assets already in the game.

Baraka, Rain, Sindel, MKX ...

 

[Juxtapose]

Baraka, Rain, Sindel, MKX ...

True enough. We'll have to see as time goes on.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

The problem is most fans response to some bad 3d era characters is that character sucked 10 to 15 years ago they will always suck.
Stryker in mk9 was 10X more interesting then the personality less a fat cop mk3 version.

Ill use kobra as a example he was basically a ken/Ryu clone with a shitty backstory a bad design, what if they changed his motivations, moves and design is it impossible no its not. Most people here were babys or in elementary during the ps2/Xbox era so no reason these characters cant be changed.

The last thing that bugs me is when characters are picked do to story relations why do characters like kenshi just disappear without reason even though in mkx he was one of the major earthrealm defenders, not to mention takeda and kung jin missing while redesigned cassie and jaqui are here

 

[Juxtapose]

The last thing that bugs me is when characters are picked do to story relations why do characters like kenshi just disappear without reason even though in mkx he was one of the major earthrealm defenders, not to mention takeda and kung jin missing while redesigned cassie and jaqui are here

Kenshi and Takeda clearly went on a father/son fishing retreat .

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

No one disrespects the 3D era characters more than NRS. I personally think there's a lot of potential to re-invent many of the 3D era characters and give em more of personality and arche-type that really doesn't exist for most of them in the 3D games.

I don't think they all need to come back but I'd like to see them embrace and do new things with some of them. Have Li-Mei once again trained by Bo-rai-cho but specialize in kicks Chun-Li style. Or Kobra be a Cheesy lame Ken Masters clone, but with something else to him. I like Frost's return but think her pointed ice hair should have been the default skin.

We get it NRS, you hate Hsu Hao and he's dead, what else can you do with the 3D era?

Edit: I'm also not advocating for a whole cast of 3D era characters either. 2-3 in a new game with 1 more as DLC is fine with me. MKX had it almost right IMO. Kenshi, Bo-rai-cho, Li-Mei and Frost in the story, and the semi-3D characters in Quan chi, Tanya and Shinnok.

Definitely agree. MK11/MKX have already done a great job of taking old generic characters and giving them a real design and personality. Skarlet went from naked kinda-ninja red woman to having a real and interesting aesthetic. I'm sure NRS would give any of the 3D characters that treatment, and I think we'll see at least one in KP2.

 

[ItsYaBoi]

The fact that nobody is really taking this as an excellent opportunity to shine for Frost is exactly why all those others will be relegated to endings and konsumables for the rest of eternity.

That’s because they did Frost wrong. Big time.

 

[Lord Snotty]

If we need to choose between two SF members, it has to be Cassie and Johnny. Their moveset borrows heavily from the other. But I think the ninja kharacters could be swapped out for a 3D era fighter. Only Sub-Zero and Scorpion are necessary. Sonya is one of the breakout fighters of MK11. She ain't going anywhere soon.

 

[zerosebaz]

People tend to forget how bad some of the classic characters were during the 3D era. If Jax and Reptile were to be judged only on their MKDA selves they would be rated lower than Havik, Hotaru, or Ashrah. It is the overall quality of those games that drags a lot of those characters back, but a lot of them have an have solid foundations that would work really well on this new, higher quality games.

The problem, and there is always a problem, is that NRS doesn't seem to understand what people like about those characters. Bo Rai Cho had a nice desing, a solid story, and a unique twist in the archetype being a fat drunken master, but NRS thought that what people liked about him were his farts and pukes, so they doubled down on that when they should have removed it. Or look at Frost, the idea of her willingly turning herself into a cyborg was great, but her design is all over the place, she spins her torso, throws her head around, makes her hands drills... All she's missing is a Fatality where she throws a lot of her heads and blows up the world, it's so silly in a character that shouldn't be. And that's without mentioning the fact she feels an unfinished, very clunky character, or the fact her single personality trait is wanting attention. The funny things is NRS shows us being one dimensional is not a trait exclusive to the 3D era characters, with Kung Lao being one of the worst offenders.

I rambled way too long, I'm tired, my head hurts, so I'm gonna end it here. I just want to add that I don't fully consider MK4 as 3D era, but I don't want to miss the opportunity to rant about Fujin not being in the game. He is so long overdue that hurts.

 

[Slymind]

Just for fun.

I love the 3d-Era characters, they need to be revitalized.

 

[CorneliusBrutus]

Or look at Frost, the idea of her willingly turning herself into a cyborg was great, but her design is all over the place, she spins her torso, throws her head around, makes her hands drills... All she's missing is a Fatality where she throws a lot of her heads and blows up the world, it's so silly in a character that shouldn't be. And that's without mentioning the fact she feels an unfinished, very clunky character, or the fact her single personality trait is wanting attention. The funny things is NRS shows us being one dimensional is not a trait exclusive to the 3D era characters, with Kung Lao being one of the worst offenders.

I feel like I'm definitely in the minority on this one but I thought MK11 Frost capitalized on new themes perfectly. She needed distance from being "Sub-Zero but a girl", so there's less actual cold powers and more cybernetics. Her moveset includes stuff like spinning her torso and detachable parts which reflects how fully committed she is to using mechanical enhancements to push her body beyond what a human is limited by, no matter how much of her humanity has to be sacrificed.

 

[-Nachtmahr-]

Nitara was great, vampires are always nice, the other black dragons would be nice too. Only using Mavado's swords for Kabal because he was my man in DA. Havik has to come back too, so many possibilities what he can be gameplay wise. But tbh, how can you sleep without Meat and Drahmin?

 

[ItsYaBoi]

Nitara was great, vampires are always nice, the other black dragons would be nice too. Only using Mavado's swords for Kabal because he was my man in DA. Havik has to come back too, so many possibilities what he can be gameplay wise. But tbh, how can you sleep without Meat and Drahmin?

That’s an aspect I hope they explore next game (doubtful though). I’m talking about the Black Dragon / Red Dragon rivalry.

As somebody said earlier, it’d be silly to expect a LOT of 3D characters for the next game, however it’d just be nice to see some more recognition.

If I had to narrow them down to who I’d include in MK12 (I include MK4 in this too btw, minus Fujin as he’s DLC for MK11) then I’d pick the following:

Havik
Hotaru
Li Mei
Ashrah
Drahmin
Reiko
Kai
Mavado or Hsu Hao.

8 characters from the 3D era isn’t too bad if it was to be a 25 char roster again tbh. 8 from that era, 12 classics/established chars, and 5 new characters.

 

[Zoidberg747]

There's definitely a few that no one would ask for, Kobra, Dairou, Kira etc. But there are some that would be interesting to see with an MK11 makeover, Hotaru, Ashrah seeing as they had a more interesting design rather than someone that was a placeholder for another character.

The level of irony considering the post above you asked for Dairou lmao

Edit:
Even though the 3D era games arguably were kinda bad, there are a lot of characters that had cool designs that would be great to see updated/remade:
Havik
Ashrah
Drahmin (pretty sure i'm the only one who liked this character lmao)
Moloch
Nitara
Onaga
Fujin

The reason these characters will likely never come back (accept Fujin allegedly) is because they are too obscure to sell well. There's a reason we get so many guest characters, people buy them up like crazy. Can't blame NRS for that, just how it is.

 

[Nickolaidas]

The level of irony considering the post above you asked for Dairou lmao

Edit:
Even though the 3D era games arguably were kinda bad, there are a lot of characters that had cool designs that would be great to see updated/remade:
Havik
Ashrah
Drahmin (pretty sure i'm the only one who liked this character lmao)
Moloch
Nitara
Onaga
Fujin

The reason these characters will likely never come back (accept Fujin allegedly) is because they are too obscure to sell well. There's a reason we get so many guest characters, people buy them up like crazy. Can't blame NRS for that, just how it is.

Havik is coming. Believe.

Anyways, solid list. And I liked Drahmin too.

 

[Arqwart]

No one disrespects the 3D era characters more than NRS. I personally think there's a lot of potential to re-invent many of the 3D era characters and give em more of personality and arche-type that really doesn't exist for most of them in the 3D games.

I don't think they all need to come back but I'd like to see them embrace and do new things with some of them. Have Li-Mei once again trained by Bo-rai-cho but specialize in kicks Chun-Li style. Or Kobra be a Cheesy lame Ken Masters clone, but with something else to him. I like Frost's return but think her pointed ice hair should have been the default skin.

We get it NRS, you hate Hsu Hao and he's dead, what else can you do with the 3D era?

Edit: I'm also not advocating for a whole cast of 3D era characters either. 2-3 in a new game with 1 more as DLC is fine with me. MKX had it almost right IMO. Kenshi, Bo-rai-cho, Li-Mei and Frost in the story, and the semi-3D characters in Quan chi, Tanya and Shinnok.

I think Havik, Hotaru, Nitara, Ashrah, Fujin, Tanya, Frost, Kenshi, Sareena, and Quan Chi are all strong additions to the series' lore from the 3D-era.

More than anything, I just want to see either a modernized Havik who is fighting against Kronika's "perfect timeline" for his own chaotic reasons or Ashrah who could be on Kronika's side so she can hunt demons between timelines to satiate her kris and purge her soul. I'd also be down to see Hotaru, but only if he was paired alongside Havik as Hotaru doesn't stand alone nearly as well as his Chaosrealm counterpart.

 

[Colares]

I think Havik's only shot is in a new Deadly Alliance story, he shares the crafty antagonist traits with Shang and Quan which is though to beat.
Kobra could be like Yuri from KOF borrowing popular moves from SF and making them in MK style. I can only imagine if his Fatal Blow was Akuma's Raging Demon how brutal they could make it.

 

[Auron]

Other than Kenshi and maybe Reiko none of those characters are missed. Shinnok is cool but we have the original Shang Tsung so no need for that unless it's a premium skin kind of deal like i2, though I have no idea who would replace Tagawa's Shang Tsung with it.

 

[theotherguy]

The level of irony considering the post above you asked for Dairou lmao

Well there's all that one person....

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The 3D-era characters are overhated. I know not all of them were so great, but there's still many that me and other fans would like to see again, like Reiko, Li Mei, Havik and Ashrah. Even Nitara and Hotaru could do with a makeover.

I’m gonna be honest though — the vast majority of casual MK fans and kids that are playing nowdays have no idea who they are.

I personally think it’s cool for fanservice and whatnot, but you know you’re gonna have a million people crying that some characters they’ve never heard of made it in over Sonya and Liu Kang, etc.