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General/Other - Liu Kang What's Liu Kang missing to be top tier?

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Yeh I thought this was known as well because I first got a nasty taste of it vs @KingHippo's DF LK. I guess because of the execution it's not as used but like a lot of people have stated, it's only the beginning stages. Right now we have Quan chi's and Kung Laos that are far easier to use than this. But we are really early into the games life and once more people start putting in the work we might see more DF out there. I mean this is a character that has this kind of block pressure plus a far extended d2, his d3 gives him plus 1 and low profiles him so you can't cross him up, he can IAFB and has a low FB, can MB his FB's for good unbreakable damage, good combo damage and corner carry, good footsies and space control, and he's relatively plus and gains meter after everything. This character has it all and it's gonna be scary in the right hands.
Honestly though the execution barrier for the FBC stuff is pretty low. Are people really struggling to do this?
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I know this has been talked about here on the forums and I don't even play kang and had no trouble doing these cancels. I play hellfire Scorpion and maybe that helped me with the execution but that wasn't hard either. I'm just surprised that people think the character is bad and are just figuring this out.
 

ando1184

Noob
Honestly though the execution barrier for the FBC stuff is pretty low. Are people really struggling to do this?
Idk really? It took me maybe a day to get the hang of it for that vid I made since I'm not a LK main per se. But I think it can be mastered fairly easily imo. It's highly rewarding if ya get the hang of it too from what little I played and seen. I'm just as shocked as you in how it hasn't come out as often. So maybe it is as tough to get down on the execution side, or maybe people might be keeping it on the DL because they don't want em nerfed like Scorp and the others?
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Idk really? It took me maybe a day to get the hang of it for that vid I made since I'm not a LK main per se. But I think it can be mastered fairly easily imo. It's highly rewarding if ya get the hang of it too from what little I played and seen. I'm just as shocked as you in how it hasn't come out as often. So maybe it is as tough to get down on the execution side, or maybe people might be keeping it on the DL because they don't want em nerfed like Scorp and the others?
Honestly I thought this was well known, I just don't frequent the Lui Kang forums. I even remember people saying why did NRS nerf Scorpion and leave Lui Kang. Maybe they honestly didn't know because everyone thought Kang was bad. I'm honestly baffled by this.

If you can do it consistently after a day of practice then I would say the barrier isn't very high. There's shit out there in other games that takes an insane amount of time to become consistent at.
 

Lone

KHAOTIC
It's being discussed because they adjusted the other block pressure characters. At least that's how I see it.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Ok so I just went and tried it out. F213 fbrc repeat. It's not hard at all and I'm tipsy.

Just input f213 bf hold 1. When you see the animation for the fireball you dash forward then piano block into f2 and repeat. Best way to do it imo.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Ok so I just went and tried it out. F213 fbrc repeat. It's not hard at all and I'm tipsy.

Just input f213 bf hold 1. When you see the animation for the fireball you dash forward then piano block into f2 and repeat. Best way to do it imo.
f44 is superior, but much harder to do as in order to completely jail it has to be done very fast.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Superior because on hit confirms into highest damage combo, and takes away the option to take the last hit in order to get out of the pressure.
Yeah but that one is actually really hard as you said. The beauty of f214 is in the corner though because eating the last hit of f214 leads to a juggle. If they respect f214 you can throw in the f44 which is good. I'm sure I'm saying stuff you already know but just putting the info out there.
 

ando1184

Noob
I just went through the whole cast and attempted b12 xx flying kick MB both in the corner and midscreen, and only Kitana could actively avoid it by crouching. Every other character was forced to block it. I guess it is character specific...to one character.
Lol awesome
 

Enexemander

A Hitbox Pirate - YARRR -
Something to consider is that actually doing the fireball cancels and strings accurately is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to execution. It's just the entrance fee. To actually compete, you're going to center your game all about managing the stamina. I'm watching the STB tournament with Murk playing DF. His cancel inputs are ON POINT, but he rarely if ever has the meter available to put his opponent through full run cancel chip setups. Liu's range is definitely not the greatest, and his main cancel string will knock pretty far on hit (as will his B2 and B4 footsie tools). What I'm trying to say is that Liu spends a LOT of stamina meter just getting in range for his offense (nevermind backdashing, breaking, etc). That's just regular play. Imagine a skilled opponent actively TRYING to make Liu spend his stamina to get in to defang his offense.

Good minds games there.

I think stamina management, more than anything, is what is keeping DF Liu from being training dummy dominant in real world situations.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
I just went through the whole cast and attempted b12 xx flying kick MB both in the corner and midscreen, and only Kitana could actively avoid it by crouching. Every other character was forced to block it. I guess it is character specific...to one character.
Told ya, he has issues with his girlfriend
If DF Liu kang is 4-6 Royal storm Kitana then he's not top tier right? :DOGE
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Honestly I thought this was well known, I just don't frequent the Lui Kang forums. I even remember people saying why did NRS nerf Scorpion and leave Lui Kang. Maybe they honestly didn't know because everyone thought Kang was bad. I'm honestly baffled by this.

If you can do it consistently after a day of practice then I would say the barrier isn't very high. There's shit out there in other games that takes an insane amount of time to become consistent at.
The main problem was that Scorpion's combos always ended in a standing reset with Flame Aura active so his FBRC chip and meterbuild became significantly more, and Scorpion could always Ex spear during pressure if the opponent decided to take the 4 where as Liu Kang gets a 8% special if the opponent decides to take the 3 in F213.

That's how I saw it anyways.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Everyone knows Kabal of MK9 is the most broken shit ever created. But noone ever has the ability to use Kabal PERFECTLY as he's truly capable of.
And if we talk about tiers, we should talk about tools and options, not player skills to use those characters.
Eh, to be fair, Kabal got away with a lot of shit (albeit the holes he did have only came to be because of wonky mechanical aspects of the general MK9 system) almost entirely down to how limited MK9's training mode was. This isn't the case this time, we now have the resources to see things in absolutes.

EN Windmill should almost always be interruptible before the last cancellable hit except for 5 characters.
Just curious, who are those 5 characters? I only know of Scorpion and Mileena being completely jailed by every hit of the EX WP on crouch block.


I say only change it when it becomes a problem, not before.

This is much harder to do than kabal cancels ever were and I played kabal.
This is a horrendous apologist argument. I for one, could do without having to put up with fuckbois complaining for the following 18 months about why NRS didn't do anything about this after the last major patch is done, and we likely don't have much time left.


The main problem was that Scorpion's combos always ended in a standing reset with Flame Aura active so his FBRC chip and meterbuild became significantly more, and Scorpion could always Ex spear during pressure if the opponent decided to take the 4 where as Liu Kang gets a 8% special if the opponent decides to take the 3 in F213.

That's how I saw it anyways.
I think it's about time I put this one to bed.

First off, the unblockable ticks from flame aura are exactly that, not being blocked, so no, Scorpion does not build meter from them. And between the pushback/movement during the blockstrings, 4 of the 6 ticks made contact, for a total of 13.05% chip. Liu Kang can use the Dragon Kick meter burn follow up as a way to sandbag to buy himself more time for his stamina to recover and build over a full bar back, and does 13.30% chip in the process. Liu's also starts from a mid and ends with enough advantage once out of stamina to check with what essentially becomes a 5 frame armor breaking mid.

Lest we forget this is also available to him from the F44 FBRC, where there are no opportunities to take a hit.

The only area where Scorp had the 1-up was the standing reset over Liu's hard knockdown, and I'm not even sure how significant that is. This isn't Injustice or MK9 where most hard knockdowns were made moot by invincible wakeups.

So as of right now, it's not opinion or the way people see it, it literally does not compute that Scorp's jailing strings were taken away on the narrative of being a block infinite but not Liu's.


Idk really? It took me maybe a day to get the hang of it for that vid I made since I'm not a LK main per se. But I think it can be mastered fairly easily imo. It's highly rewarding if ya get the hang of it too from what little I played and seen. I'm just as shocked as you in how it hasn't come out as often. So maybe it is as tough to get down on the execution side, or maybe people might be keeping it on the DL because they don't want em nerfed like Scorp and the others?
I'll say this much, while nobody is doing perfect FBRCs with Liu yet and they are key to getting the most out of his up-close game, the fact that almost nobody had thought to discuss specific frame data on his current frame traps until I posted them this past week, almost 4 months into the game's life is quite suspicious. It does seem more and more like the plan is to keep quiet and start going ham once any sign of any more major patches are gone.

Or maybe I'm being too generous and these forums really don't have their priorities straight.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Eh, to be fair, Kabal got away with a lot of shit (albeit the holes he did have only came to be because of wonky mechanical aspects of the general MK9 system) almost entirely down to how limited MK9's training mode was. This isn't the case this time, we now have the resources to see things in absolutes.


Just curious, who are those 5 characters? I only know of Scorpion and Mileena being completely jailed by every hit of the EX WP on crouch block.



This is a horrendous apologist argument. I for one, could do without having to put up with fuckbois complaining for the following 18 months about why NRS didn't do anything about this after the last major patch is done, and we likely don't have much time left.



I think it's about time I put this one to bed.

First off, the unblockable ticks from flame aura are exactly that, not being blocked, so no, Scorpion does not build meter from them. And between the pushback/movement during the blockstrings, 4 of the 6 ticks made contact, for a total of 13.05% chip. Liu Kang can use the Dragon Kick meter burn follow up as a way to sandbag to buy himself more time for his stamina to recover and build over a full bar back, and does 13.30% chip in the process. Liu's also starts from a mid and ends with enough advantage once out of stamina to check with what essentially becomes a 5 frame armor breaking mid.

Lest we forget this is also available to him from the F44 FBRC, where there are no opportunities to take a hit.

The only area where Scorp had the 1-up was the standing reset over Liu's hard knockdown, and I'm not even sure how significant that is. This isn't Injustice or MK9 where most hard knockdowns were made moot by invincible wakeups.

So as of right now, it's not opinion or the way people see it, it literally does not compute that Scorp's jailing strings were taken away on the narrative of being a block infinite but not Liu's.



I'll say this much, while nobody is doing perfect FBRCs with Liu yet and they are key to getting the most out of his up-close game, the fact that almost nobody had thought to discuss specific frame data on his current frame traps until I posted them this past week, almost 4 months into the game's life is quite suspicious. It does seem more and more like the plan is to keep quiet and start going ham once any sign of any more major patches are gone.

Or maybe I'm being too generous and these forums really don't have their priorities straight.
Damn bro, I didn't say it was justified in being nerfed. I was just thinking through someone like Paulo's perspective when he nerfed it. I already said I would be fine with scorpion getting them back so calm your tits you fukb0i.

Also I can confirm that I was the one to tell people to stay quiet about Roooo kang so he wouldn't get nerfed. But that cat's out of the bag I suppose.

EDIT: Here we are
Just leaving this here so that I can lol @ people in the future.

Dragon's Fire Liu Kang is probably the best pressure character in the game(as long as he isn't nerfed anymore), and it'll take a while before people really start showing how good he is. The three things he's lacking from being utterly broken include an Armored launcher(Ex and MBed Bicycle kick does not count), good wakeup attacks, and the obvious overhead(which he does not need btw). If he had those those things then it would be Kabal all over again. I suggest all of you to remain quiet about him and refrain from making thread's like "WHY DRAGON'S FIRE IS A TOP 5 CHARACTER HURRRRR" so that he isn't ruined.

God bless all you Dragon Fire players.
 
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KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Just curious, who are those 5 characters? I only know of Scorpion and Mileena being completely jailed by every hit of the EX WP on crouch block.
Those two, along with Kitana, Ferra/Torr, and Jason are jailed into blocking all of the EN WP on crouch block. Considering Scorpion and Jason also have somewhat shitty armored reversals, I can't not see those matches being dreadful. 10-12% safe chip that almost builds itself back on block is really difficult to fight against.
 

Zabru

My blade is broken damn right better than yours!
I know this is a bit off topic but if I buy a PS3 hitbox and use it for this game will I get any input lag? I'm gonna get a hit box to help with iafb and FBC off f44 but would regret it even if there was the smallest amount of lag. @karaokelove tagging you because If I remember correctly you were talking to me about using a hitbox once and something about having to sync it up everyonce in a while.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
The main problem was that Scorpion's combos always ended in a standing reset with Flame Aura active so his FBRC chip and meterbuild became significantly more, and Scorpion could always Ex spear during pressure if the opponent decided to take the 4 where as Liu Kang gets a 8% special if the opponent decides to take the 3 in F213.

That's how I saw it anyways.
Yeah I was just using that as an example to show people knew about this a long time ago. It just seems like people are just realizing this is in the game even though I know people knew about it already.

Also in the corner Lui Kang can convert f213 fbc into a combo if the other player tries to eat the last hit of the string so he does have options to deal with that without burning meter.