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Question What makes MK9 stand out?

Tweedy

Champion
being able to play proper footsies by cancelling dashes with blocking and many characters having great anti-air jabs or d1s to make jumping very risky. you didn't have to read jumps and njp to anti air you can just see the jump happen and press a button. you see it now with SFV how many characters there have great anti-air jabs so even characters without traditional dragon punches can still stop a jump in.

even though the game was unbalanced, some of the best fighting games ever made were horribly unbalanced. 3rd strike, marvel games, UMK3, etc. that didn't take away from how fun the game was to play when you played against people (offline) and could just enjoy the game for the mechanics.
Points like "MK9 had anti airs because you could always use this one move", or "MK9 had better poking because the pokes were minus and didn't have crazy cancels", is about as biased as it gets.

Having to use your entire movelist to anti air does not make anti airs bad. Sure, when MKX first came out, anti airs were worse. Now we're left with a very diverse anti air meta and very few jump ins that are actually unfair. You just have to mix up what normal you use, based on what character you're playing against and where you're at on the screen. That's called depth.

Sure, cancelling a safe poke into a special can be bad, but overall it just adds more depth to the counterpoke meta. It gives a character like Goro a specific advantage. Sure, it can get out of hand when characters like Kung Jin and Alien have 50/50 specials to cancel into, but anything good could be not balanced correctly. That doesn't mean that it's a bad game design.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
"There is no zoning in this game!"

*Watches Destroyer keep people out and bait unsafe approaches with HQT*

"There are no footsies in this game!"

*Watches Foxy make Top 8 through baiting, strong footsies, and winning the neutral.*

"Alien rules this game!"

*Watches only one Alien main make top 8 at the World's biggest tournament, with the only other Alien being a desperation pick.*

Gotta love them false narratives.
 

exflyingbooty

This dream has a sad ending
you all need to stop about anti-airing. The kind of jumps in this game are equivalent to an airdasher with how fast you leave the ground. The fact that you can randomly use jumps to escape do a njp to become + from -5 in odd situations where jumping out and making attacks whiff when they shouldn't is stupid.

Also I will say about mk9 which i'm sure of there are no run cancels(i'm sure it's like +1 or +2 most) which leave you at stupid amounts of frame advantage and because of it take a huge amount of chip damage. Which is just bad game design.
 

shura30

Shura
What quality of Kobu Tanya or release Raiden does Alien have, outside of 50/50 armor. Leatherface also has that btw and I admit that it could be tweaked. Don't say "lol they have rekkas", because Alien's are way different.
think of acidblood, works pretty much the same as hollywood's random +frames restand, also tell me why I can't flip punish a blocked f134AB because in alien's case random height works even while grounded and blocking
his jumping attacks wich reseble lao's garbage
and a lot of other things including a free first hit because acid ticks

What do you mean "until Sonicfox comes here and tells otherwise", it's the other way around. This is a competition, not a fairy tale or anime. Sonic played to the match ups. He lost to War God at Final Round with Acidic, switched to Gunslinger and won. Do you even know the specifics of Acidic vs War God? Gunslinger does way better.
he made the switch at the last possible time while struggling for the whole 2 sets
also, why did TM got destroyed like that in the final match after fighting brilliantly up to that moment?
with alien it's not a matter of matchup because kotal doesn't really completely shut any of his options while his meta of pokes xx acid dot and constant in between strings guessing still stands
also, any pressure-centered character does fine against no-defense bloodgod
acidic made him lose lifebar just because

And Jason does way better than Alien vs Takeda. He lost to Takeda at Combo Breaker with Acidic and Gunslinger. He used Jason this time and with much greater success.
please, hayatei didn't punish choke ONCE and tried to wakeup armor off a punishment corner setup. he lost to matchup knowledge

If he would have played Scar, he would have went Gunslinger, because he couldn't get a game vs Scar with Acidic at CEO, and had to switch to Gunslinger to run it back.

Blood God was the only match he ran into, where Acidic was his best character in the match, in top 8.

So who is delusional here?
you're still delusional because you think alien is ok as a whole

the amount of effort required to counter alien's tools is way off scale if compared to most toolsets and you still hide things behind tournament results and sonicfox's choices
 

Tweedy

Champion
think of acidblood, works pretty much the same as hollywood's random +frames restand, also tell me why I can't flip punish a blocked f134AB because in alien's case random height works even while grounded and blocking
his jumping attacks wich reseble lao's garbage
and a lot of other things including a free first hit because acid ticks



he made the switch at the last possible time while struggling for the whole 2 sets
also, why did TM got destroyed like that in the final match after fighting brilliantly up to that moment?
with alien it's not a matter of matchup because kotal doesn't really completely shut any of his options while his meta of pokes xx acid dot and constant in between strings guessing still stands
also, any pressure-centered character does fine against no-defense bloodgod
acidic made him lose lifebar just because



please, hayatei didn't punish choke ONCE and tried to wakeup armor off a punishment corner setup. he lost to matchup knowledge



you're still delusional because you think alien is ok as a whole

the amount of effort required to counter alien's tools is way off scale if compared to most toolsets and you still hide things behind tournament results and sonicfox's choices
TM didn't get destroyed. He was 2 blocked EX flips away from winning EVO lol. Go ahead and ignore all of the other evidence I gave, for why Sonic held off on Alien. Ignore him losing the Acidic vs War God match at Final Round, ignore him losing the Acidic vs Takeda match at Combo Breaker. He picked characters that better suited those matches at EVO, period.

I'm not hiding anything. I'm providing actual evidence, like tournament results. As far as Alien being okay, that's something that you've claimed that I think. Not something that I've ever stated or implied. I've even stated the contrary but whatever.

You on the other hand hide things behind fairy tales and anime plot lines like Sonic having some kind of pride that made him not want to use Alien. He didn't use Alien because he had failed in the past with Alien in those match ups.

Edit: Do you realize that Hollywood's frames are not random after nutpunch anymore? Do you also realize that at point blank Alien is +1 on hit with the acid blood? Do you also realize that Alien leaves a gap if using acid blood after F134? Unlock Alien please sir.

Also, Hayatei not punishing choke with a 9 frame standing 1 in the heat of the moment, does not mean that he doesn't know the match. If anything, switching to Lasher proves that he knows it. lmao I mean what even
 
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shura30

Shura
TM didn't get destroyed. He was 2 blocked EX flips away from winning EVO lol.
--

Also, Hayatei not punishing choke with a 9 frame standing 1 in the heat of the moment, does not mean that he doesn't know the match. If anything, switching to Lasher proves that he knows it. lmao I mean what even
so, let me understand your point,
it's ok for hayatei to not punish (where's the attempt tho?) choke
but
it's not ok for TM against exflip

also, TM didn't get destroyed while not even winning a round in the final match with sf@ >50% life in both rounds

gotcha

Edit: Do you realize that Hollywood's frames are not random after nutpunch anymore? Do you also realize that at point blank Alien is +1 on hit with the acid blood? Do you also realize that Alien leaves a gap if using acid blood after F134? Unlock Alien please sir.
while Hollywood still has the same exact pre-patch dirt in the corner, I usually refer to alien as a mashup of other character's pre-patch dirt..you're free to re-read my posts in this and other threads

also, I hoped it was an easy example but proves that you're just going to pick on my words..i'll make it simpler to you

acidblood is -8 on block, easily punished by any comparable startup reversal/attack
off any of alien's strings not only in the air like hollywood but while opponent is GROUNDED AND BLOCKING those - frames get reduced to the point that fastest reversals in the game fail to retaliate

hence random +frames we had in some pre-patch characters are back with a buff

I'm not hiding anything. I'm providing actual evidence, like tournament results.
and that's why you're delusional
you think you have 'evidence' while referring to:

- sonicfox's strategy which should be commomn knowlegde he's not playing the same game as everyone else since mk9
- other players performance even tho it's widely known that they are not shining at mkx like they did in past games

I'd like to drop all argument and focus just on one tho:

is the amount of work required to keep up with acidic/tarkatan alien fair?
 

Tweedy

Champion
so, let me understand your point,
it's ok for hayatei to not punish (where's the attempt tho?) choke
but
it's not ok for TM against exflip

also, TM didn't get destroyed while not even winning a round in the final match with sf@ >50% life in both rounds

gotcha



while Hollywood still has the same exact pre-patch dirt in the corner, I usually refer to alien as a mashup of other character's pre-patch dirt..you're free to re-read my posts in this and other threads

also, I hoped it was an easy example but proves that you're just going to pick on my words..i'll make it simpler to you

acidblood is -8 on block, easily punished by any comparable startup reversal/attack
off any of alien's strings not only in the air like hollywood but while opponent is GROUNDED AND BLOCKING those - frames get reduced to the point that fastest reversals in the game fail to retaliate

hence random +frames we had in some pre-patch characters are back with a buff



and that's why you're delusional
you think you have 'evidence' while referring to:

- sonicfox's strategy which should be commomn knowlegde he's not playing the same game as everyone else since mk9
- other players performance even tho it's widely known that they are not shining at mkx like they did in past games

I'd like to drop all argument and focus just on one tho:

is the amount of work required to keep up with acidic/tarkatan alien fair?
This might be the worst post I've seen on TYM.

You've basically ignored everything I said, besides one thing where you ignored the point and just put words in my mouth. I never said it wasn't okay for Tekken Master to punish an EX flip. However, EX flip is -18, choke is -10 and Takeda's faster combo starting normal is 9 frames.

Outside of that you're a complete soap bar.

As far as the work to keep up with them goes, where are these instances of people not being able to keep up? Or are you just bullshitting because you probably don't even have Alien unlocked? yeah

Edit: The reason I ask for examples, is because you can't provide any from your experience. If you were a good player and could explain why your said character struggles vs Alien, I would listen. Vague statements and iffy talk about Alien's acid blood, is whatever. I will regulate that ass.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
think of acidblood, works pretty much the same as hollywood's random +frames restand, also tell me why I can't flip punish a blocked f134AB because in alien's case random height works even while grounded and blocking
his jumping attacks wich reseble lao's garbage
and a lot of other things including a free first hit because acid ticks



he made the switch at the last possible time while struggling for the whole 2 sets
also, why did TM got destroyed like that in the final match after fighting brilliantly up to that moment?
with alien it's not a matter of matchup because kotal doesn't really completely shut any of his options while his meta of pokes xx acid dot and constant in between strings guessing still stands
also, any pressure-centered character does fine against no-defense bloodgod
acidic made him lose lifebar just because



please, hayatei didn't punish choke ONCE and tried to wakeup armor off a punishment corner setup. he lost to matchup knowledge



you're still delusional because you think alien is ok as a whole

the amount of effort required to counter alien's tools is way off scale if compared to most toolsets and you still hide things behind tournament results and sonicfox's choices
Tekken Master baited, but failed to punish EX Flip numerous times. That had a huge impact on him losing the last match. Other times, he fell for the armor instead of trying to bait it.

Try to be objective, yeah?
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
If MKX didn't have safe 50/50's that lead to 25%+ and some can loop back into more safe 50/50's, it would be superior to MK9. MK9 had a lot of problems but at least you won 9/10 times by outplaying your opponent, not outguessing them.

Personally, the most enjoyable NRS game (MK9, INJ, MKX) was Injustice for me... pre Batgirl. I loved Injustice and just like MK9 and MKX, one or two more patches coulda made the game last for years.
 

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Recently, I dove back into MK9 practice mode just to see if I still remember my BnBs, set ups, block strings, ETC. I came to realize that this game was about as fun as a game could get to me.

When Injustice originally approached, I was still playing and enjoyed every match until Injustice dropped and I made the transition while occasionally playing MK9 until everyone on my friends list stopped playing. Now, with the same situation happening with MKX, I currently don't have the same drive I did for MK9.

Don't get me wrong, I like playing MKX but MK9 was so much more to me. Be it MK9 was unbalanced and the NETCODE was shit but the game had a godlike Ora to it.

I could watch tournament footage of MK9 and feel the hype. Even clans felt different back then.

With that said I would like to point out that I have played almost every NRS game since MK1 (except MK vs DC) and loved every one but MK9 takes the cake.

So what makes MK9 stand out? What is the X factor about that game that people genuinely have a passion for?

Is it fundementals? The meta? Character design?

NRS has put plenty of resources into making the most of MKX and making people happy but I would be more hyped for UMK9 then Injustice 2 100%

Do y'all agree?
I've been saying this since day 1 of MKX being announced: I'd rather have had UMK9 with the roster expanded and a thoughtful string of balance fixes than MKX.
It is no secret that I prefer MK9's design: The characters, the interface, the sounds, everything feels more fun to me.
The only issue with MK9 is that it breaks its own rules to the point where it would have probably been a bit too much work to fix everything wrong with it.
It's still fun if you pick top 5, maaaaybe top 10. Anywhere after/around Scorpion the characters start to become severely unviable.
 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
He got mopped by Pnut when they played Acidic vs War God.

Get real, this isn't an anime. Sonic doesn't care what people think about his character choice.
We are not talking about Sonic. Alien was brought as example. If Sonic dose not care, then thats the proper approach he go with. And the Anime line....if You dont mind, I will pretend I dont know what anime is pal.
 

Linkuei82

Live by the sword, Die by the sword
Mortal Kombat 9 plays like a traditional 2D fighting game. Mid range control (i.e., footsies and anti-aerial attacks) is strong and prevalent. No vortexes exist, but offensive options remain powerful. The game's meta is diverse and nonlinear. Cyrax is a predominately combo character, Johnny Cage is a rush down character, Freddy is a traditional full screen zoning character, Kabal is a high execution character who is versatile, Kenshi is a mid range zoning and defensive character, Kitana is a mid range zoning and offensive character, Kung Lao is a mobile rush down character with great defense, Smoke is an anti-zoning, footsies character, Sonya is a footsies-based rush down character, etc. These aforementioned characters are all top tier characters with varied abilities, strengths, and weaknesses. A gameplay style exists for all types of players, which results in the game being enjoyable to play and watch. The superior player, even among the best of the best, always wins in Mortal Kombat 9, with no exceptions other than the game's poor balance, which leads me to discuss the negative aspects of the game.

Unfortunately, the game is profoundly unbalanced, mostly because of Kabal and to a lesser extent Cyrax and Kenshi. The game is also plagued with some peculiar glitches such as the infamous input bug and the frustrating meter drain glitch. If Mortal Kombat 9 had received one or two more patches, I sincerely believe that nobody would be playing Mortal Kombat X right now.
I pretty much agree with everything here ^^
 

shura30

Shura
This might be the worst post I've seen on TYM.
you don't re-read your posts often do you?

You've basically ignored everything I said, besides one thing where you ignored the point and just put words in my mouth. I never said it wasn't okay for Tekken Master to punish an EX flip. However, EX flip is -18, choke is -10 and Takeda's faster combo starting normal is 9 frames.
cool
I asked you to show me at which point in time that takeda tried his 9 frame poke retaliation and failed
where's that?

you said that TM lost evo because exflip
you said hayatei was in the heat of the moment

As far as the work to keep up with them goes, where are these instances of people not being able to keep up? Or are you just bullshitting because you probably don't even have Alien unlocked? yeah
bro,
do you read this board and/or my posts?
what other words do you need, what example, 'evidence' do you claim to prove that alien doesn't need fixing?

If you were a good player and could explain why your said character struggles vs Alien, I would listen. Vague statements and iffy talk about Alien's acid blood, is whatever. I will regulate that ass.
and please let me try and understand why you should be a good or better player than me

in short I've stated that the amount of work required to deal against alien as a whole is completely off balance if compared to the rest of the cast
and the same goes for the other stupid tiers right now
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
you don't re-read your posts often do you?



cool
I asked you to show me at which point in time that takeda tried his 9 frame poke retaliation and failed
where's that?

you said that TM lost evo because exflip
you said hayatei was in the heat of the moment



bro,
do you read this board and/or my posts?
what other words do you need, what example, 'evidence' do you claim to prove that alien doesn't need fixing?



and please let me try and understand why you should be a good or better player than me

in short I've stated that the amount of work required to deal against alien as a whole is completely off balance if compared to the rest of the cast
and the same goes for the other stupid tiers right now
Tweedy gots himself into similar situations among everyone on TYM, its not you.
People talk about alien, his excuse is Sonic Fox at evo.
Claims MK9 is trash, never played.

How would you go into an argument with someone who has never experienced the topic in discussion? Putting words on our mouths as "You said MKX has no defense" really?
 

Kenshi-Keanu-Kool

D1 mashing is the tactic when skill fails !
I Feel you my friend lol mk9 was way better . Music , backgrounds , sounds , the speed , the clothes , everything was cooler , but ppl are always bitching , hoo , its not balanced , it cant be played has a competitive level like sf , its broken , it has a block button ..!! That moment when you have almost won the fight , but than cyrax touches u looool haaaaaaaa GOOD TIMES ...
 

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
Tweedy gots himself into similar situations among everyone on TYM, its not you.
People talk about alien, his excuse is Sonic Fox at evo.
Claims MK9 is trash, never played.
Well said Brother. If not the fact that I am at work i'd dropped out of the conversation before it even get started lol.
 

Kenshi-Keanu-Kool

D1 mashing is the tactic when skill fails !
What makes mk9 stand out? How ugly the female faces where and how the cyborgs where still good :DOGE
Actually , female characters wore better in MK9 than MKX !!! Do you think MKX SONYA looks better than in MK9 ?! And cassie and kitana look like old ladies in mkx yack.........
 
footsies,antiairs,no safe or plus on block resets-50/50,chars for every player(zoners,pressure based chars,mid range control) with far more depth,tag,better meter management etc etc
 

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
From playing in MK9 & MKX, I can be 100% & tell you that in MK9, your character didn't carry you.

YOU put the work in, YOU got the result. Good or bad match-up, you could still compete. There was no true "pick up N' play" characters in MK9, you could tell who did their homework with their main & who just pick them up for a bad match-up.

The main reason behind the whole character loyalist thing in are community is because of MK9 imo.

Like General M2Dave say, MK9 played like a traditional 2D fighter so for most of us guys who played other Fighters it had a familiar air, something we can relate to. And its true if MK9 had one more patch it would have been good , we're not saying that because we're crazy or desperate for our own type of game. . . it would of just being perfect.
 

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
Just a quick question about air normals in MK9. Were they all the same animation/hitbox? I know Njp's were but I'm not sure about the other air normals.

I bring that up because starting with Injustice every character received their own unique air normals with different hit/hurt boxes. I mean now we have njps at max height that reach the ground with some characters.

So would anti airing in mk9 have stayed as great as is claimed if every air normal wasn't the same?
 

SZSR

Champion
I can't speak for anyone else, but this is my view on it. It's pretty long so I have a TL;DR at the bottom.

It would have to be due to MK9's character design. NRS appeared to have designed it so that no two characters would play exactly like one another, each character being unique was important. As such each character could develop into their own as the game went on (becoming a rushdown, zoning, footsie, etc. type character by the end).

In this, developing a fighting system would be more straightforward in that each character would exist as a microcosm of a basic 2D fighting game.

Basically, every character would have an anti-air, footsie tools, etc., etc. And depending on the design goals they would tweak the character's playstyle through their identity, although depending on the character, it's your opinion on whether or not the design was successful.

A conversation like this most likely happened during development for example: "Smoke could be a keep away character, but not too strong in that he would be able to stay away all game", so he'd be a more mid-range footsie based character with a reactive playstyle. Some players thought it was fun, others thought it was frustrating, but all in all, Smoke had his own identity.

All in all MK9 was successful in establishing a unique identity for each character, the problem arose from balance and bugs. MK9 was a basic 2D fighter with unique character identity.
__________________________________
MKX doesn't feel to have this.

MKX is created, now they seek to do this with each variation and on top of that they introduce the run system, interactables, stamina, etc. So instead of the "basic 2D fighter" from before, they go the route of "if everyone basically has a 50/50, then it's balanced" type of 2D fighter. I'm not saying this is what they intended to do, but this is what the finished product feels like.

Additionally, there's a sinking feeling I would describe as the characters exist as pieces, not their own entity.

Say a character like Rain was playable in MKX, they want to make it so that there's a "rushdown Rain", "zoning Rain" and "footsies Rain".

Well, if you're a die-hard Rain fan you're gonna try playing all of them. But unlike MK9 where your character simply has all the tools out the gate, every character in MKX feels like they have something "taken away" from them.

So you might like the "Zoning Rain" variation, but not "Footsies" or "Rushdown" Rain.

So you have to go find another character that does fit your playstyle, but you're a Rain fan so you try to play someone else and get bored with them.

TL;DR: MK9 was basic fighter, and every character feels unique, but game is very unbalanced and buggy. MKX was basic fighter with a lot of crap so ends up making "50/50" game and variations feel like fragments, not a whole character, game is also unbalanced, but not as bad as MK9, but ends up unsatisfying anyways.
 

shura30

Shura
Tekken Master baited, but failed to punish EX Flip numerous times. That had a huge impact on him losing the last match. Other times, he fell for the armor instead of trying to bait it.

Try to be objective, yeah?
oh, I didn't know that 'numerous' meant 2

one after the jump kick, the second after the pizza where he also didn't have the resources to kill from that situation

every other time he got hit because he was trying to followup with the pressure or blocking low so not exactly baits