Question What makes MK9 stand out?

[The Abbot]

I really enjoyed these videos from Pig.

IT HAS BEGUN!!!

Really love the ladder style set up. Haven't seen anything like this in MKX.

 

[Somea2V]

Rosy colored spectacles, perhaps?

 

[ForeverKing]

Top tiers in Mkx and mk9 are probably similar as they are in inj

It's top being top tier

This game is more evenly balanced but a S-tier vs low tier is same as all the others

I actually disagree with this.

In MKX, low tiers like Goro Kenshi etc. have a way better chance vs Alien Mileena than the MK9 low tiers (Stryker Sheeva etc.) have against Kabal Cyrax.

MK9 actually had some 8-2 matchups, debatable 9-1 matchups. MKX doesn't have any 8-2 or 9-1 at all, the hardest matchups in MKX are 7-3.

So the S tier vs low tier is different in MKX and MK9. In MKX it's unlikely (but possible) for low tier to beat high tier. In MK9, it's impossible

 

[ForeverKing]

I always felt MKX did nothing to improve NRS's "clunky" feel. In my opinion, I thought MK9 felt way more fluid than MKX. Not saying you are wrong, it is just interesting how our opinions are polar opposites.

The only time MK9 felt more clunky to me was when trying to play online. That shit would make a Buddhist Monk rage.

He's not saying it's clunky from a player perspective, obviously MK9 movement feels more fluid than MKX.

He's saying MK9 looks clunky from a viewer's perspective. And from a viewer's perspective MKX looks more fluid, to viewers the running looks more clean than the block dashing.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

I actually disagree with this.

In MKX, low tiers like Goro Kenshi etc. have a way better chance vs Alien Mileena than the MK9 low tiers (Stryker Sheeva etc.) have against Kabal Cyrax.

MK9 actually had some 8-2 matchups, debatable 9-1 matchups. MKX doesn't have any 8-2 or 9-1 at all, the hardest matchups in MKX are 7-3.

So the S tier vs low tier is different in MKX and MK9. In MKX it's unlikely (but possible) for low tier to beat high tier. In MK9, it's impossible

Blood/Sun God Kotal vs Pyro Tanya 8-2 MU.

Out footsies, out lames her, out damages her, anti airs her and counters her at a core level. Better defensive options with defense totem and parry as well as the ability to get life back with sunray.

 

[Map the Soul]

Blood/Sun God Kotal vs Pyro Tanya 8-2 MU.

Out footsies, out lames her, out damages her, anti airs her and counters her at a core level. Better defensive options with defense totem and parry as well as the ability to get life back with sunray.

tym please bring back the fabled dislike button so i can spam it on this post

 

[ForeverKing]

Blood/Sun God Kotal vs Pyro Tanya 8-2 MU.

Out footsies, out lames her, out damages her, anti airs her and counters her at a core level. Better defensive options with defense totem and parry as well as the ability to get life back with sunray.

No way it's possibly 8-2. They have bad wake ups and Tanya has 50/50's (not great ones but still.) You can Kotal down and mix him up over and over, with that being said no way it's 8-2. Staggers into throws and throws being 50/50

 

[Awkward Sloth]

tym please bring back the fabled dislike button so i can spam it on this post

Please explain all the experience that you have in this match up and what makes it not god awful for Tanya. Because the only players that travel and play Pyro Tanya in any way shape or form are myself and Vak.

No way it's possibly 8-2. They have bad wake ups and Tanya has 50/50's (not great ones but still.) You can Kotal down and mix him up over and over, with that being said no way it's 8-2. Staggers into throws and throws being 50/50

Alright Pyro Tanya's 50/50s F3 hard knock down unless I charge it for a full 2 second so it can launch. Please explain why you aren't reacting to that. And Flip kick that is -30 on wiff and roughly -20 on block and easily punishable. And when she does Kotal in blood God is taking at least 40+%.

The game plan of nickle and diming someone to death with pyro is laughable. Because the moment some one blocks correctly you are actually punished for it hard. And factor in pyro has shit damage for a bar. Add defense totem on top of that and it's roughly 12% 1 bar combos. Alright cool. But it's fine she can throw him to death on knock down cause she has great options on knock down with all her highs and strings that have gaps in them he can party and full convo punish.

You got it King. Not like I've been playing this match with Mr Aquaman since Tanya's release when it was in her favor before all the buffs Kotal received.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I actually disagree with this.

In MKX, low tiers like Goro Kenshi etc. have a way better chance vs Alien Mileena than the MK9 low tiers (Stryker Sheeva etc.) have against Kabal Cyrax.

MK9 actually had some 8-2 matchups, debatable 9-1 matchups. MKX doesn't have any 8-2 or 9-1 at all, the hardest matchups in MKX are 7-3.

So the S tier vs low tier is different in MKX and MK9. In MKX it's unlikely (but possible) for low tier to beat high tier. In MK9, it's impossible

I can agree w that however if anyone wants to pick my character and trudge through 3-7s all day be my guest

Btw 2-8s ? Balanced vs bs shinnok and balanced vs DF Liu Kang. By all means experience it yourself

Kenjutsu is 4-6 vs both mentioned and possessed 3-7 and 4-6

 

[Awkward Sloth]

What if Mr.Aquaman is outplaying you?

I'm not throwing shade mind you, but I don't think, "I lose to my training partner who knows my habits" is a great argument. It's very anecdotal.

Try it yourself against a BG Kotal that has an idea of how the match up goes. Which there aren't many so good luck finding one.

Mind you it is a match up that rarely is seen but claiming that the game has no 8-2 match ups when there are characters that are seriously that bad because another character completely shuts them down full screen and up close.

 

[Rude]

Try it yourself against a BG Kotal that has an idea of how the match up goes. Which there aren't many so good luck finding one.

Mind you it is a match up that rarely is seen but claiming that the game has no 8-2 match ups when there are characters that are seriously that bad because another character completely shuts them down full screen and up close.

Why would I try that match up? I would have to learn Tanya (eww), then scour the interwebs for someone who mains Blood God (and likely has for a long time), and play them vs a month old, 5th string alt? That doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[Rude]

Why would I try that match up? I would have to learn Tanya (eww), then scour the interwebs for someone who mains Blood God (and likely has for a long time), and play them vs a month old, 5th string alt? That doesn't make any sense at all.

Also, that's what the variation system is for. I never jived with the, "each individual variation is its own character" thing. They're different styles of the same character, so it's just a matter of picking the right variation for the situation.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Why would I try that match up? I would have to learn Tanya (eww), then scour the interwebs for someone who mains Blood God (and likely has for a long time), and play them vs a month old, 5th string alt? That doesn't make any sense at all.

It does if you want to see how shitty a match up is.

Also, that's what the variation system is for. I never jived with the, "each individual variation is its own character" thing. They're different styles of the same character, so it's just a matter of picking the right variation for the situation.

King stated there are no 8-2s 9-1s in this game. I challenged his statement with an answer that I have experience in. His reasoning was that Tanya's 50/50s on knockdown made it difficult for blood god. But he didn't factor in the risk/reward of what happens when BG blocks one of the 50/50s. Or the fact that off her overhead she gets no big damage. Kotal has nothing to fear from Pyro Tanya in this match up, not even her MB fireball.

Sure the other variations might do a better, but that doesn't mean some variations are shit and have shitty match ups.

 

[Rude]

It does if you want to see how shitty a match up is.

Nope. It really doesn't. For one thing, my 5th tier Pyro Tanya would never be on the same level as a person who mains her.

(Unless you're implying that it could, which whoa, kinda harsh huh)

Secondly, what if I simply don't gel with the character? That would mean that i'd be forcing myself to play a character that doesn't suit me, which would affect my abilities with her. Which means I STILL wouldn't be playing her effectively and thus, "trying it myself," would just result in me playing a bad Tanya vs a good Blood God.

It doesn't make sense.

 

[Rude]

It does if you want to see how shitty a match up is.



King stated there are no 8-2s 9-1s in this game. I challenged his statement with an answer that I have experience in. His reasoning was that Tanya's 50/50s on knockdown made it difficult for blood god. But he didn't factor in the risk/reward of what happens when BG blocks one of the 50/50s. Or the fact that off her overhead she gets no big damage. Kotal has nothing to fear from Pyro Tanya in this match up, not even her MB fireball.

Sure the other variations might do a better, but that doesn't mean some variations are shit and have shitty match ups.

But Pyro Tanya is only 1/3rd of a character. If Kotal did the same to Kobu and DN, I'd agree with you. But if switching makes fighting Sun/Blood better, than it's not an 8-2.

 

[STRYKIE]

I actually disagree with this.

In MKX, low tiers like Goro Kenshi etc. have a way better chance vs Alien Mileena than the MK9 low tiers (Stryker Sheeva etc.) have against Kabal Cyrax.

MK9 actually had some 8-2 matchups, debatable 9-1 matchups. MKX doesn't have any 8-2 or 9-1 at all, the hardest matchups in MKX are 7-3.

So the S tier vs low tier is different in MKX and MK9. In MKX it's unlikely (but possible) for low tier to beat high tier. In MK9, it's impossible

For the record I agree with MKX low tiers being way better off than MK9 low tiers, but people said that there were no matchups worse than 3-7 in MK9 and Injustice in their respective lifespans for a good long while also. Never say never.

I'd also like to point out for the record (this part isn't directed at you btw King) that it works both ways and certain people just don't understand how matchup number legislation works. If a matchup is 3-7, they should be losing progressive sets of 10 by 3-7. If the final score ends up being something like 2-28, perhaps that's on them?

 

[Awkward Sloth]

But Pyro Tanya is only 1/3rd of a character. If Kotal did the same to Kobu and DN, I'd agree with you. But if switching makes fighting Sun/Blood better, than it's not an 8-2.

He didn't state character as a whole. He stated that 8-2s don't exist. They do because some variations are just that terrible. I'm not arguing that the other two variations dont cover the MU. I'm sure the other variations do fine. I don't play them so I can't speak on them. I'm speaking on what variation and MU I have the experience in.

 

[zerosebaz]

I get that things like Cage's or Nightwolf's juggle combos looked idiotic, but is it really the running system the one that prevents them? Running can be canceled really fast, and while it is true that it would take lots of skill, I feel at this point in the MKX's life we would see those kind of combos if they were possible and gave a higher benefit. I might be wrong, but aren't the juggle properties the ones that actually prevent those combos in MKX? Like, the recovery on normals, and the gravity and things like that?

I guess the question is, couldn't the silly looking combos be prevented while keeping the dash canceling system?

I think it could, same with dash bloking, you just allow to cancel the dash into anything but block: problem solved. But if that is going to far, you could tie it to a stamina meter and be able to only cancel it into block once and then wait for it to recover. Still, the truth is dash bloking was being used less and less by the end of mk9's life, as walking was more effective. We would've seen a lot less of that if it had found its way into MKX.

Edit: I guess what I was trying to say is: Is that system really beyond saving? Are the bad things it had something inherent to it?

 

[ForeverKing]

For the record I agree with MKX low tiers being way better off than MK9 low tiers, but people said that there were no matchups worse than 3-7 in MK9 and Injustice in their respective lifespans for a good long while also. Never say never.

I'd also like to point out for the record (this part isn't directed at you btw King) that it works both ways and certain people just don't understand how matchup number legislation works. If a matchup is 3-7, they should be losing progressive sets of 10 by 3-7. If the final score ends up being something like 2-28, perhaps that's on them?

This is how I imagine a 3-7 matchup in my head, and how the outcome could vary in short or long sets:

Take a circle pie chart, 70% of that pie is the character at an advantage and 30% is the character at disadvantage. Now take an arrow and spin it on the pie, and when that arrow stops spinning whatever piece of the pie it's pointing at represents one match won (similar to the game Twister where you spin an arrow on a pie chart and whatever color the arrow lands on you put your hand/foot on that color.)

Obviously the arrow has a much better chance landing on the piece that takes up 70% of the pie. You could even say on average if you were to spin the arrow 10 times, it would land on the character of advantage 7 times and the character at disadvantage 3 times. But it won't always work out like that, maybe sometimes the arrow will on the 70% piece 9 times out of 10 or maybe sometimes 5 times out of 10.

So in a 2 out of 3 set, it's way more likely for that arrow to land on the 70% piece twice before the 30% piece gets landed on twice. Is it possible for the 30% to get landed on twice first? Yes, that's what we call "upsets" in tournaments. The shorter the set the best chance the 30% piece has of winning, so a first to 1 would be the disadvantage character's best chance. In a first to 10 between two players of equal skill, I would say it's almost impossible for that arrow to land on the 30% piece 10 times before it landed on the bigger piece 10 times. Miracles happen sometimes I guess though.

If you were to spin that arrow 30 times, on average you would expect the arrow to land on the 30% piece at least 12-13 times. So yeah if it only landed on the 30% 2 times out of 30, I would say either somebody is having a really bad day or the skill gap must be pretty wide between the players controlling the characters.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Hilarious comparison. Except sex with my first was godlike. So good that we were broken up for years and I was still hitting it. She was in year long relationships, engaged to be married and everything and I was still tearing it up in hotel rooms lol. Went in for about 4-5 years until she tried to have me break up with my girl to try a relationship again and that was a hell no lol. GOAT Level sex didn't change with time. It was what it was.

Now back on topic lol, I don't think MKX will be remembered fondly at all. It happens when games have reoccurring ones. It'll be remembered more like Tekken players remember Tekken 4. The game that ruined a good thing by making too many unneeded changes, was played only because it was the competitive game at the time of the company, and things got much better once again when they went back to the roots in later installments.

That will be the MKX legacy.

Came back to like/reread this comment lmfaooo.

 

[EdenianWarrior]

Some things that MKX really did that I liked over MK9
-the costumes are so much better (especially female costumes)
-more unique moves, the fact that everyone has different animations
-brutalities
-Intros. These are such a good idea and should be a PERMANENT staple of MK/Injustice.
-probably some stuff I missed but still.
MK9 did most stuff better.

 

[crosstalk]

MK9 was definitely something special, for me and a lot of other people. I'll still support NRS games and have enjoyed all of them so far, but I doubt they'll be able to capture the same magic they had with MK9 again.

 

[Soul Bound X]

MK9 was definitely something special, for me and a lot of other people. I'll still support NRS games and have enjoyed all of them so far, but I doubt they'll be able to capture the same magic they had with MK9 again.

Or we could just stay with the game we like. It's not like it is the testyourmight crowd that keeps nrs alive. The casuals are what make them the most money. If we don't buy their next game, they'll still survive. I don't get why we have to buy every nrs game and play it. The melee crowd doesn't play pokken tournament just because nintendo made it. or even smash 4 for that matter. Why don't we just stick to the game we like the most?

 

[Xerclipse]

Or we could just stay with the game we like. It's not like it is the testyourmight crowd that keeps nrs alive. The casuals are what make them the most money. If we don't buy their next game, they'll still survive. I don't get why we have to buy every nrs game and play it. The melee crowd doesn't play pokken tournament just because nintendo made it. or even smash 4 for that matter. Why don't we just stick to the game we like the most?

NRS does appeal to us too, but with the ridiculous things in the game like lots of non optimal strings, bad variations, throw teching system, and broken DLC characters.... I agree that its the casuals that are keeping it alive. But then it looks really bad to have created multiple characters with super busted tool sets. I am a Project M player, and I feel really grateful that I kept Brawl instead of selling it. But I will not get a Wii U for Pokken and Smash 4. Pokken's design is a mess in my book.

 

[Soul Bound X]

NRS does appeal to us too, but with the ridiculous things in the game like lots of non optimal strings, bad variations, throw teching system, and broken DLC characters.... I agree that its the casuals that are keeping it alive. But then it looks really bad to have created multiple characters with super busted tool sets. I am a Project M player, and I feel really grateful that I kept Brawl instead of selling it. But I will not get a Wii U for Pokken and Smash 4. Pokken's design is a mess in my book.

project M is so awesome. That game is just beautiful proof that we don't just enjoy smash, but we freakin love it. I wish someone would make a patch for melee ntsc to give us SOME of the pal changes. That would be awesome.