What is Wrong With These People!? - The U.S. Politics Discussion Thread

[nwo]

I could list a whole lot of disadvantages of being married to be honest.

 

[rev0lver]

No, I'm not married. What other benefits can you "gain" from being married?

I never said it wasn't a topic for debate. I just said that it's being used as a diversion topic, when our basic rights are under full assault, this topic doesn't rank in my top 10. Don't make me list them. If you really want to get married, just move to California. If you are in this country illegally, just move to one of the many sanctuary cities throughout the country.

You realize people have places they call their home, right? Or where they have a job they need? The whole argument about moving to whatever state fits you is simply wrong. What if (for example) interracial marriage were banned in one state? Would you just tell all the black people to stop complaining and move? Just because some states have it doesn't mean it's okay for all the others to ban it.

This has been a right under assault for DECADES. The gay political movement isn't something new at all. For what reason is this huge issue a diversion topic? Were the thousands upon thousands of people rallying against Prop 8 in California just being brainwashed by politicians, or do you think maybe it's something they actually care about? What world do you live in where gay rights are a fringe issue just being used for political football? Gay marriage DOES rank in my top 10 issues, actually my top 5. Just because it doesn't for you doesn't mean anything.

There are a ton of other benefits that come with marriage. For example:
-hospital and jail visitation rights
-joint adoption (if only adopted by one parent, the other parent will not be allowed custody of the child if something were to happen to that parent)
-inheritance rights
-access to family rates for insurance
-the ability to make a medical decision for a spouse if he/she is physically unable to

 

[nwo]

You realize people have places they call their home, right? Or where they have a job they need? The whole argument about moving to whatever state fits you is simply wrong. What if (for example) interracial marriage were banned in one state? Would you just tell all the black people to stop complaining and move? Just because some states have it doesn't mean it's okay for all the others to ban it.

This has been a right under assault for DECADES. The gay political movement isn't something new at all. For what reason is this huge issue a diversion topic? Were the thousands upon thousands of people rallying against Prop 8 in California just being brainwashed by politicians, or do you think maybe it's something they actually care about? What world do you live in where gay rights are a fringe issue just being used for political football? Gay marriage DOES rank in my top 10 issues, actually my top 5. Just because it doesn't for you doesn't mean anything.

There are a ton of other benefits that come with marriage. For example:
-hospital and jail visitation rights
-joint adoption (if only adopted by one parent, the other parent will not be allowed custody of the child if something were to happen to that parent)
-inheritance rights
-access to family rates for insurance
-the ability to make a medical decision for a spouse if he/she is physically unable to

Ok fine, I never meant to debate this topic. I actually want nothing to do with it. Do you believe we live in a democracy? What percentage of people are gay? Even though Prop 8 got voted down, some cities in California break the law and still marry same sex couples, last I checked.

 

[nwo]

So let me just sum this up proving my original point, which was A) This is a diversion topic, because B) you could never win a debate on it, just like C) religion.

More people are straight, some people are gay.

Goodnight.

 

[rev0lver]

And it's an inherent problem when the majority decides the rights of the minority.

You didn't make any point there. You just claimed it was a diversion topic with no true justification. It's a diversion topic because you can't win a debate AGAINST it, apparently for you. You're smarter than MKF30 in this way; he should've just called everything he can't back up a "diversion". There's no reason why the rights of a group of people should be set aside just because it doesn't directly affect the majority. You calling it a diversion topic of no importance is equivalent to calling gays second-class citizens because their rights don't matter.

 

[nwo]

And it's an inherent problem when the majority decides the rights of the minority.

You didn't make any point there. You just claimed it was a diversion topic with no true justification. It's a diversion topic because you can't win a debate AGAINST it, apparently for you. You're smarter than MKF30 in this way; he should've just called everything he can't back up a "diversion". There's no reason why the rights of a group of people should be set aside just because it doesn't directly affect the majority. You calling it a diversion topic of no importance is equivalent to calling gays second-class citizens because their rights don't matter.

There's not a sign stuck to a gay that says "gay." Don't compare this to race or a woman's right to vote.

 

[nwo]

And it's an inherent problem when the majority decides the rights of the minority.

Well good thing you say this, because we don't live in a democracy. It's a republic.

 

[Purple Haze]

Of course gays should be allowed to get married.

Why should straight people be the only miserable ones?

 

[DanCock]

There's not a sign stuck to a gay that says "gay." Don't compare this to race or a woman's right to vote.

"gays" are all races, all religions and all sexes. Homosexuals may be able to lie and hide the fact that they are gay but that doesn't change the fact that they are being treated like immoral people because some imaginary being told them its wrong.

Did you just not bother to watch the video I posted? Do you realize how often that happens??? Have some empathy for your fellow human beings.

And if you would like to bring up a topic to discuss since you dying to discuss something else please do so.


This video lololol it's still shocking to me that people think this way about gay people lolol

How am I not dead?? I have did a lot of the stuff she mentions lol I have licked so many asses I'm still not dead lolol

Sent from my iPad 2 using Tapatalk

 

[nwo]

Well hey, keep fighting. Maybe the minority can re-write the laws one day. Oh wait, that's already happening. The big corporate interests are in bed with the government already.

 

[rev0lver]

The point isn't for the minority to re-write laws, it's to have legislators and judges intelligent enough to not be bigoted. Did any of the anti-black laws get overturned by a direct vote of the people? No, because popular opinion only changed after the government did so.

Why shouldn't it be compared to other civil rights issues? Because it's not a race or gender? Being gay isn't something you choose, either. If I could have a choice, I would be straight, but I'm not. Yes, you can "choose" to marry a woman.... the same way a black man can "choose" to marry a black woman even though he's in love with a white one, since that used to be illegal too.

 

[TarkatanDentist]

http://www.gayagendabook.com/gayagenda.html

This book utterly deconstructs all arguments against allowing same-sex marriage.

Emphasis on same-sex marriage. Gay marriage implies that both participants are gay, which while usually true, is not alway so.

 

[Tolkeen]

There's not a sign stuck to a gay that says "gay." Don't compare this to race or a woman's right to vote.

You're right, there's no sign that says a homosexual is a "Gay", however, it is easy to label someone as gay just for being a little less "macho", as a man, or a little more "macho" as a woman. You can't always tell a Jewish person is Jewish, but Hitler did a pretty good job of singling the majority of them out. You can not separate the rights of homosexuals from the rights of other "races", they are all humans, thus they all deserve the same rights. And race just happens to be a change in the physical appearance of a person, we're all still part of the same "human" race.

The majority of people in this country thought slavery was good for a long time, that doesn't make it right.
The majority of people in this country thought bi-racial marriage was an abomination for a long time, that doesn't make it right.

The majority is not always right, and you are more than welcome to have your opinion on your taste or distaste for all marriages, and gay marriages. But in the eyes of the government, shouldn't we hold all people to the SAME accountability, and allow all people the SAME freedoms?

 

[eks]

Ok fine, I never meant to debate this topic. I actually want nothing to do with it. Do you believe we live in a democracy? What percentage of people are gay? Even though Prop 8 got voted down, some cities in California break the law and still marry same sex couples, last I checked.

What cities recognize same-sex marriages? Just because a city marries them doesn't mean the state recognizes it, so if the couple has any of the legal issues that rev0lver mentioned, the cities actions wouldn't mean anything because the state law would likely take precedence.

I completely agree that that it's a diversion tactic, but I think whenever they succeed in passing anti-gay legislation it can be a significant push-back against the "liberal agenda". If the conservatives can win small battles (in the long-run) like this, they bolster the support of their followers and can then imply that they're stronger in other areas that do matter, like the economy.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I'm such a baby lolol I stumbled upon this video by accident. I was in a good mood. Now I'm fucking crying and sad.

Jesus...that was amazing and terrible all at once .

Consider it shared with all my peoples. Another reason why intolerance will never make any sense to me.

Now I need a hug. Poor guy...I couldn't even imagine something like that...kind of puts a lot of perspective on things.

How am I not dead?? I have did a lot of the stuff she mentions lol I have licked so many asses I'm still not dead lolol

Lmao...And as quickly as I am saddened, my mood is lifted again.

Let me just take a serious moment to be thankful for all the fucking awesome gay friends and comrades I've made since becoming a part of MK, as I was never really lucky enough throughout the course of life to find as well-assembled, entertaining and supportive a bunch of pals as I have in knowing some of you guys. Dan, Rev, Mr. Mil, the list goes on...I'm genuinely glad you crazy connoisseurs of masculine company are in my universe.

Bigotry can kiss my brown, cybernetic ass.

 

[MKF30]

eks, having the biggest influence being the more known religion means what exactly? Politics have an even bigger influence trying to use religious views as a tool.

BTW, to answer your last post uhh New York is only known as the biggest or one of the biggest, known cities in the world which recognizes Gay marriage now...

What is wrong with you? Seriously. You just spew ignorant garbage through your pores. Ever hear of the Crusades? Have you even gone to school? We learned this shit in elementary school.

Seriously man, what is your major malfunction? I have never read such unfiltered ignorant bullshit spewing forth from another human being in my entire life. Please avoid ANY adult conversations in the future.

Here, let me fucking google that for you.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=christian crusades

No you do. So you think elementary school doesn't leave anything out is that right? If anything use High School or college lol, Elementary School? Please get a clue as to what I said, yeah christian crusades happened how many fucking years ago? Wow, totally ignored my post as I even mentioned the Romans...duhh. Yet you call me ignorant lol...I'm tired of people like you constantly trying to bash "Christianity" but ignore other religious flaws as if they're fucking perfect. But hey live in your "anti-Christian" bubble..lol

Ok, crusades lasting 30 years roughly and the ancient romans killing way back is hardly comparable to the wars now on the other side strapping bombs on their chests and jumping into crowds of jewish women and children...really? Sure, killing is bad in general but I love how these things are often ignored and people bring up "the crusades" exclusively.

How long has this conflict lasted?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab–Israeli_conflict

You're acting as if Christianity causes the most religious wars on Earth, hardly...have they? yes. The largest? Uhh fuck no. Go ask someone who's Jewish please to educate you.

You people make me sick..

Decades and hundreds of years>>>any Christian war.

FTR, yes I feel the christian wars going on in England and Ireland are dumb as well...

Do you just conveniently ignore this? This was even talked about few pages ago between Israel and Iran....gotta love selective reading. BTW, next time try posting an argument instead of pointless insults, it does you no credit.

lolol

Crusades?
Thiry Years' War?
Second Sudanese Civil War?
......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab–Israeli_conflict

http://www.aish.com/jw/me/48883732.html

How long has this war lasted? lol Pretty sure it's still going on today....

Keep in mind, I never said Christians are perfect or never had war, my point is more so it's all in the past like distant past...where as the stuff going on in Israel and Iran have been going on for how long now? Seems like Centuries literally...

Sure, religious wars are all stupid...especially when people strap bombs or fly planes into buildings to get a point across because of "allah" in their mind...

BTW, before anyone thinks I'm mocking muslims or something, no. Just radical terrorists, a normal muslim will tell you they have a warped sense of "what allah" is and their ideals are often radical.

What is the point of marriage anyway? I think it says more when two unmarried people stay together for a length of time, than a married couple. To me marriage is just a document that I could wipe my ass with, unless you are talking about some kind of tax break.

You're right and I agree(but some folks won't see it as a diversion, but trust me I agree with you there), but be prepared to take a shit ton of bashing from the left on here lol for that comment about gays and straights.

The whole marriage thing, legally it's just a papered, confirmed document more or less. Religiously, well Bible, Koran, etc will all tell you they believe it's a sacred ceremony between man and woman.

Me personally, what I find interesting is how Civil Unions are frowned upon, it must be marriage when it comes to gay/lesbian couples... I don't get this.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Me personally, what I find interesting is how Civil Unions are frowned upon, it must be marriage when it comes to gay/lesbian couples... I don't get this.

Because gay couples aren't fond of being treated like second-class citizens any more than they already are.

A person shouldn't have to have their rights limited just because of the gender of the one they love.

And yes, I understand a LOT of people don't take marriage seriously, or don't hold it in as high a regard as it's collectively been in the past, but if there's one group of people who are absolutely serious about it in principle and desire, it's gay couples. Seems ironically unfair that the only people who still genuinely care about marriage are the only ones not allowed to have it.

 

[rev0lver]

MKF30 at least you understand the distinction between marriage and religion, haha. People in this country don't realize that marriage is a legal issue, not a religious one. I will accept civil unions, but the whole problem with that is that it separates gay marriage from a straight marriage as a "partnership", as if it is inferior to actual marriage.

As for the other religious issues...

You realize the Israeli conflict is a political one, not a religious one, right? While some members are part of both, there is a distinction between radical Islamists and those who fight&terrorize for political purposes. The attacks against America, for example, are largely political.

And you're completely wrong about Christianity not being involved in this. I'm assuming you're familiar with Joseph Kony, the man who was the focus of the Invisible Children videos earlier this year. His group is a Christian fundamentalist group that wants to make a society with the Bible as law.

 

[MKF30]

@ Revolver, oh I'm sure I know a lot more then people give me credit for because I disagree with a lot in here I must know nothing right?​

Anywho...yes, of course marriage is merely a legal document, then there's the religious aspect of it where some folks are very passionate about it morally with the whole man/woman thing man/man etc.​

As for Civil Unions being inferior to marriage? This is what puzzles me, to me both are legal documents of "confirmed partnership" so way I see it, some people or in this case Gay people see it that way? I don't know, maybe I'm missing something because I'm not gay but to me a written document is a written document. lol know what I mean?​

Actually, the war on the other side is about both. A lot of it has to do with religious superiority....while the rest is political. I'm not wrong about Christianity not being involved, I'm aware they're involved or have been but now and a while now? Strickly Israel and Iran fighting...​

Yeah, unfortunately extreme philosophies by a few nutjobs here and there won't go unnoticed(especially if they're a Christian) ​

There are radical muslim groups as well as racist groups out there too such as Al-Qaida and Black Panthers, KKK etc who also use their religions as a crutch...​

And yes, while 9/11 was very political it was also religious at least partially....Bin Laden telling and convincing his followers that "this is what Allah wants and you'll get 72 virgins when you die" kind of exceeds basic "politics"

Because gay couples aren't fond of being treated like second-class citizens any more than they already are.

A person shouldn't have to have their rights limited just because of the gender of the one they love.

So, Civil Unions=second class citizens?

Isn't a document a document regardless? It's like a rank thing?

Look, the whole "owee he's gay" attitude from some people out there, I agree nobody should be treated differently due to gender, race, background, sexual orientation whatever... but remember there's lots of people, groups and such that are mocked or treated like second class citizens. Legally, you go to the bank or something they get the same rights as a straight person...From political parties getting flack to certain minority groups...



This reminds me but isn't quite as bad as the "only black people have it bad, no other minorities or sexual orientations" argument I'm sorry, but that's such a load of bullshit...I'm of Mexican american background and can't tell you how many times I get the "immigration" jokes, you see me crying? No, because I just man up and tell people to take a walk...and I'm sure Gay people are up there with people hating on them for being Gay. Am I wrong Dancock?

I can list you a ton of every day racist or bigot comments regarding others here not spoken about, afterall I do live in NYC lol. We have everyone here, but we also have very judgmental people too.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

So, Civil Unions=second class citizens?

Isn't a document a document regardless? It's like a rank thing?

Look, the whole "owee he's gay" attitude from some people out there, I agree nobody should be treated differently due to gender, race, background, sexual orientation whatever... but remember there's lots of people, groups and such that are mocked or treated like second class citizens. Legally, you go to the bank or something they get the same rights as a straight person...



This reminds me but isn't quite as bad as the "only black people have it bad, no other minorities or sexual orientations" I'm sorry, but that's such a load of bullshit...I'm of Mexican american background and can't tell you how many times I get the "immigration" jokes, you see me crying? No, because I just man up and tell people to take a walk...

I can list you a ton of every day racist or bigot comments regarding others here not spoken about, afterall I do live in NYC lol. We have everyone here, but we also have very judgmental people too.

I was born, raised in, and am probably eventually moving back to NYC. I know.
And being 100% Puerto Rican in a family of boricuas and several gay/lesbian relatives, let me just say the idea of comparing getting one's balls busted over being stereotyped, and being outright denied the right and persecuted on a national scale over the simple desire to get hitched is as apples and oranges as Apple Jacks and fucking Tropicana.

It's not a rank thing. It's a matter of principle.
Why should a couple have to settle for a document when they want the same rights everyone else has to wed?
It's not just about the legal ramifications. It's about equality. And freedom. And all that shit we used to stand for.

 

[MKF30]

I was born, raised in, and am probably eventually moving back to NYC. I know.
And being 100% Puerto Rican in a family of boricuas and several gay/lesbian relatives, let me just say the idea of comparing getting one's balls busted over being stereotyped, and being outright denied the right and persecuted on a national scale over the simple desire to get hitched is as apples and oranges as Apple Jacks and fucking Tropicana.

It's not a rank thing. It's a matter of principle.
Why should a couple have to settle for a document when they want the same rights everyone else has to wed?
It's not just about the legal ramifications. It's about equality. And freedom. And all that shit we used to stand for.

Ok, so you know what I'm talking about concerning the NYC thing lol.

Well, I think that really depends where you live too. In my area, there were actually hate crimes going on for a while but stopped thankfully towards Mexicans who came here from Mexico(despite being legal or illegal) from blacks and some whites. It was mostly Blacks hating on the Mexicans in that area but it stopped.

One guy was beaten nearly to death because someone didn't like "mexican immigrants"

But I don't doubt someone being gay too, that actually happened out here too few times. Some Gay guy was beat up because he was. Yeah, but I'm saying people treat it as a ranking thing you'd think. Yet at the same time some people bash the term "marriage" so go figure? lol

I think all humans are equal or should be treated as such, but sadly the world don't work that way. That being said, I don't really believe in "that group gets it more then this group" so much either, to me being victimized is being victimized. Well, I agree with the freedom, rights etc that is one reason why I can't stand radical politicians who want to alter the constitution which supports those things by our forefathers. It's us(the people) who are imperfect thinking "my group or color" is superior t yours...

 

[rev0lver]

​

As for Civil Unions being inferior to marriage? This is what puzzles me, to me both are legal documents of "confirmed partnership" so way I see it, some people or in this case Gay people see it that way? I don't know, maybe I'm missing something because I'm not gay but to me a written document is a written document. lol know what I mean?​

​

Personally, I don't care if my relationship with someone is called a "civil union" or a "marriage", but it's just the general feeling of it from the LGB community. It's not that it IS inferior to a marriage, it's just the idea of being "separate but equal" (in a much lesser way than the racial laws, of course). Marriage is meant as a strong, lasting bond between two people, and using a term such as "partnership" instead implies that their relationship is somehow different from a marriage, whether it actually is or not.

Actually, the war on the other side is about both. A lot of it has to do with religious superiority....while the rest is political. I'm not wrong about Christianity not being involved, I'm aware they're involved or have been but now and a while now? Strickly Israel and Iran fighting...

Yeah, unfortunately extreme philosophies by a few nutjobs here and there won't go unnoticed(especially if they're a Christian)​

There are radical muslim groups as well as racist groups out there too such as Al-Qaida and Black Panthers, KKK etc who also use their religions as a crutch...​

And yes, while 9/11 was very political it was also religious at least partially....Bin Laden telling and convincing his followers that "this is what Allah wants and you'll get 72 virgins when you die" kind of exceeds basic "politics"

What do you mean by "Christianity not being involved"? Christian terrorist groups and rebel factions exist in big numbers throughout Central and Northern Africa, and are responsible for many horrible crimes. It's been this way for decades. The only difference is that they have not attacked Western countries.

As for 9/11, the whole point of that is for the feeling that their god is proud of what they have done. There's nothing in the motivation that is BASED on religious principles, only that their god would be happy that they are doing the (so-called) "right" thing.

 

[Abra Kapocus]

Anyone who seriously wants a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage is basically tacitly admitting that the constitution already allows it.

There, I said it. Problem?

 

[Zoidberg747]

I got news for you guys. Religion and Gay marriage, these are called "political footballs." They are diversion topics for the mass public. There are plenty more important issues to debate, these aren't them.

Uhhhh repressing an entire group of people and not allowing them to be married, have basic civil rights and treating them like psycopaths who can be cured is not important? Really?

 

[Espio]

"gays" are all races, all religions and all sexes. Homosexuals may be able to lie and hide the fact that they are gay but that doesn't change the fact that they are being treated like immoral people because some imaginary being told them its wrong.

Did you just not bother to watch the video I posted? Do you realize how often that happens??? Have some empathy for your fellow human beings.

And if you would like to bring up a topic to discuss since you dying to discuss something else please do so.


This video lololol it's still shocking to me that people think this way about gay people lolol

How am I not dead?? I have did a lot of the stuff she mentions lol I have licked so many asses I'm still not dead lolol

LOL this chick over here...god she makes stupid hurt so bad.

I literally burst out laughing when she said orgiers and "Jesus was kissed by Judas, a homo" lol.

If she ain't trollin' goddamn ahahah.

I'm trying to figure out why my gay uncle is still alive since gays are only supposed to live to age 40.....he's over 60.

This made my night lol.

Anyone who seriously wants a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage is basically tacitly admitting that the constitution already allows it.

There, I said it. Problem?

Why are you so clever? <3