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Question - Johnny Cage What does TYM think of Johnny as of 8-13-2015?

Omgblaze1995

Omgblaze1995

Noob
I would like some more exp fighting against Johnny Cage if anyone on psn is down to play tonight. I think the character is really solid in A-List, have never fought a SD so i would not know at all where to put him in that variation.
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Aside from Cassie's b+1 which has slightly more range, Cage has the fastest and longest advancing mid attack in the game that guarantees a follow up. In A-List, a properly run-canceled f+3 from the shadow kick into another f+3 is guaranteed pressure. As is 3,3,3, which you can use in combos after nut punch. He has the same d+4 as Shinnok. In fact, Cage's has slightly better frames on block. He has a reset that guarantees follow ups that guarantee a follow up. He has launching armor as a wake up attack and a full screen armor move for anti-zoning. He even has good fireballs that occupy very good space. In my opinion, A-List is high mid tier at worst and top 5-10 at best. A Reptile player placed top 8 at EVO, yet A-List Cage is most likely better than Reptile.
 
MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
@KHAOTIC iDante1 thanks for the mu, some fun games, if only we had a solid connection it could be excellent games:rolleyes:i hate mkx online, ill work on him some more and then maybe ill have the muscle memory to input ahead of time.
 
B

brizzle

MKKI
General M2Dave said:
Aside from Cassie's b+1 which has slightly more range, Cage has the fastest and longest advancing mid attack in the game that guarantees a follow up. In A-List, a properly run-canceled f+3 from the shadow kick into another f+3 is guaranteed pressure. As is 3,3,3, which you can use in combos after nut punch. He has the same d+4 as Shinnok. In fact, Cage's has slightly better frames on block. He has a reset that guarantees follow ups that guarantee a follow up. He has launching armor as a wake up attack and a full screen armor move for anti-zoning. He even has good fireballs that occupy very good space. In my opinion, A-List is high mid tier at worst and top 5-10 at best. A Reptile player placed top 8 at EVO, yet A-List Cage is most likely better than Reptile.
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I'd say cage is a debate for no.11 spot, along with about 5 other characters
 
Scott The Scot

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
General M2Dave said:
Aside from Cassie's b+1 which has slightly more range, Cage has the fastest and longest advancing mid attack in the game that guarantees a follow up. In A-List, a properly run-canceled f+3 from the shadow kick into another f+3 is guaranteed pressure. As is 3,3,3, which you can use in combos after nut punch. He has the same d+4 as Shinnok. In fact, Cage's has slightly better frames on block. He has a reset that guarantees follow ups that guarantee a follow up. He has launching armor as a wake up attack and a full screen armor move for anti-zoning. He even has good fireballs that occupy very good space. In my opinion, A-List is high mid tier at worst and top 5-10 at best. A Reptile player placed top 8 at EVO, yet A-List Cage is most likely better than Reptile.
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Yeah I agree with this. I think that he ties with a bunch of other strong characters around that ranking. But his mids whiffing is a real big issue, at causes him to lose a bunch.
 
Derptile

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
Dear god, the Johnny Cage players downplaying in this thread are giving me cancer. He's top 15 and is up there with characters like Sonya, Ermac, Kenshi, and Kung Jin. Yeah yeah, complain about his AAs and Jump attacks being terrible, but his rushdown and footsie game are definitely in the Top 5 of this game no question. I find it crazy how people aren't seeing just how good he is.

And for everyone saying his mids whiffing on crouching characters hurts his game, WHY WOULD YOU BLOCK LOW AGAINST CAGE
 
V

Vintagesoul

Mortal
Derptile said:
Dear god, this thread is giving me cancer. He's top 15 and is up there with characters like Sonya, Ermac, Kenshi, and Kung Jin. Yeah yeah, complain about his AAs and Jump attacks being terrible, but his rushdown and footsie game are definitely in the Top 5 of this game no question. I find it crazy how people aren't seeing just how good he is.

And for everyone saying his mids whiffing on crouching characters hurts his game, WHY WOULD YOU BLOCK LOW AGAINST CAGE
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The hit box issues hurt Johnny's footsie game.

Lets say you do f3(4)RC1 with A-list. This is a standard pressure string with Johnny because you its the only one that can't be interrupted with an armour move, and still leaves Johnny at + frames on block.

If the opponent blocked the f3 standing, he is jailed throughout. All fine and good. But if the opponent blocked the f3 crouching (why wouldn't he? F3 has better range and speed than f2, and it makes sense to crouch in footsie range against Johnny to make his fireball whiff), the stand 1 will whiff.

Johnny then proceeds to get checked by a d1 and his pressure ends or gets hit by a reversal armored launcher, prompting the hapless Johnny player to come to TYM and whine at the shrine of Paolo.

This is a gap in his Johnny's footsie game that really shouldn't exist.
 
rafaw

rafaw

#YouSuck
  • Where do you think he lies in the tier placement?
Somewhere between 10~15 in A-list
  • What variation is better?
I played a lot of SD and A-list, FC is just his worst for sure, A list is harder but imo its his best variation by a good margin.
  • What are his weak points?
As everybody said, his whiffing problems are terrible, 1 dont hit crouch block, 21 dont hit, 114 1 and 4 whiffs a lot... small hitbox caracters are a problem.
Anti air with armor is reliable actually, exdb4 cover a lot of air space(even behind JC) but lacks damage, and exNP lead to 25% combo but is more position/time specific to anti air.
His jump and air punch normals are bad, ji3 is not bad and has a lot of horizontal hitbox.
  • What are his strengths?
Im sure that the answer is pressure here, he got tons of guaranted cancels that makeup for the lack of 50/50, you can skrc of 114/f3/4/12/333/b34/d4/f2 2 times if you have full stamina, and when you mix 12/11 with f2/throw after lets say 4skrc, it creats a situation thats a true nightmare to defend.
Against zoners he can do pretty well, exsk cover almost fullscreen and has armor to close the distance, and his fb is really good, at 3/4~1/2 of the screen its even plus on block.
One of the best pokes in the game with d4, its incredible on block(-1) and on hit(+22) has good reach and low profile.
A lot of footsies tools, F3 is a fast mid(11) that advance around jump distance and in A-list can be canceled to be very plus on block to guaranted pressure, d4 is amazing too, ex sk is safe on block and cover full screen, f2 advances a lot for a fast overhead(15).
  • Does he need Help in the patch department?
Yes, not for buffs but for fixes on his whiffing problems, not much.
  • What is the Max damage he can do in both MID/CORNER?
Reliable you can get for bnb mid: F24~D1~F3xxnp 23% or F24~D1~F3xxExnp~12~F3xxnp for 33% both of those can be raw f2 or of a F3rc, starting with 113(thats 9 frames) you get a bit less damage.
Corner bnb: F3rc 121(fullcharge) d1 12121212xxNp for 34%(not sure) or F3rc121(fullcharge) d1 12~4Exnp~4np for 39% both combos dont need F3 starter.
Max damage he can do mid is around 29~30% into reset and corner around 40~42% into reset
  • Does any of his 3 variations have Bad MU's against most of the cast?
All 3 have a lot of bad MU´s, mostly 4-6... but MU wise im not sure yet.


Good to see someone starting a good discussion for Johnny :D
 
rafaw

rafaw

#YouSuck
Vintagesoul said:
The hit box issues hurt Johnny's footsie game.

Lets say you do f3(4)RC1 with A-list. This is a standard pressure string with Johnny because you its the only one that can't be interrupted with an armour move, and still leaves Johnny at + frames on block.

If the opponent blocked the f3 standing, he is jailed throughout. All fine and good. But if the opponent blocked the f3 crouching (why wouldn't he? F3 has better range and speed than f2, and it makes sense to crouch in footsie range against Johnny to make his fireball whiff), the stand 1 will whiff.

Johnny then proceeds to get checked by a d1 and his pressure ends or gets hit by a reversal armored launcher, prompting the hapless Johnny player to come to TYM and whine at the shrine of Paolo.

This is a gap in his Johnny's footsie game that really shouldn't exist.
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yeah it shouldnt, but theres ways around it somehow, if your oponent try to poke a lot after f3rc do f3rc into another f3rc its guaranted and you get a full combo. :D
 
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V

Vintagesoul

Mortal
rafaw said:
yeah it shouldnt, but thats ways around it somehow, if your oponent try to poke a lot after f3rc do f3rc into another f3rc its guaranted and you get a full combo. :D
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I don't like that, because I love to do run in f3 when the opponent is outside f3 range. Stamina is too precious.
 
rafaw

rafaw

#YouSuck
Vintagesoul said:
I don't like that, because I love to do run in f3 when the opponent is outside f3 range. Stamina is too precious.
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This i cant argue with, i feel that all the time! run into F3rc into 1 to see the 1 fucking whiffs =(, when i get countered a lot by d1 in those situations i use f3rc into d4/d1 to make then respect it...
 
Killer Xinok

Killer Xinok

"Online is your forte!" - A Wise Man, 2015
  • Where do you think he lies in the tier placement?
In my opinion he is at top 10
  • What variation is better?
A-list is his best variation, but it requires a lot of training, if you really interested in playing cage, go for this variation.. If you just want some fun, go to SD, if you want to annoy your opponent (only this) go to Fistcuffs, lol
  • What are his weak points?
9 frame quickest punisher, I don't think his whiffs are problem.. Just make sure you know in what character his 114 or ex-forceball whiffs, then you can keep in mind not to use this moves against these chars.. Kitana is a problem for him, so make sure you don't even use 113, cause the second 1 will whiff, if you use it against her, bait the opponent, do 11 and block.. even sonic fox would try to armor though it.. haha
Anti-airs, as already said by the others, is not as good as it should be.. You can try 2 skrc, or 2xxflip kick, to combo afterwards. (In SD you can do 2 xx Rising mimic shadow). But you can do njp in reaction, which has a great hitbox, and a low hurtbox
The recover of his footsies normals are really bad, f3, f24, f2, d4, so make sure you are on the right distance.

  • What are his strengths?
Long range footsie tool (f3)
Positive on block in every string (A-List)
Great distance after finishing the pressure (Ex forceball / Flip kick level2)
Great walk speed
50/50 game
  • Does he need Help in the patch department?
No
  • What is the Max damage he can do in both MID/CORNER?
I'm making a combo video, which contains some high damage new combos, meterless and meter combos, gonna post asap.
  • Does any of his 3 variations have Bad MU's against most of the cast?
No.. Only A-list could make a solid game against top players.. If the opponent know the gaps of SD it's game over, and fistcuffs was never allowed to exist :DOGE
 
Error404

Error404

Kombatant
I think A-list is pretty good. The other variations not so much , but A-list is solid. He is a very well rounded character with an honest gameplan of footsies frame traps and zoning . He has one of the best wake-up moves in the game and f3 rc is amazing. Midscreen you can get 113 x skrc, f3 skrc , f24 d1 f24 xx nutpunch and get 28 off of your s1 into guaranteed chip. In the corner you can get up to 33/34 % no bar into a standing reset. He isn't a high damage character considering how much harder the top tiers can hit. With that said he can pretty much fight everybody. He doesn't get 7-3ed by anyone of the top of my head , but his slow normals prevent him from having LK levels of pressure. The only thing he needs is 114 to be mid and ji1/ji2 to actually have a hit box.Anything more will make him broke.
 
JDM

JDM

Warrior
one of the most slept on characters in the game. A-List is ridiculous, hes my secondary
 
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