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Question - Johnny Cage What does TYM think of Johnny as of 8-13-2015?

MadeOfMetal

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
I am new to JC, and havent used him for that long, and certainly have not used him in my local tournament scene. my online is Garbage and cant use for testing a character!
im asking the TYM community to give what they know about JC for all of TYM to understand!

before i tried him out, i though he was utter garbage, untill i played with a few friends @KHAOTIC iDante1
i found he has some nice mixups and pressure, may not have massive damage but he is a threat none the same.
  • Where do you think he lies in the tier placement?
  • What variation is better?
  • What are his weak points?
  • What are his strengths?
  • Does he need Help in the patch department?
  • What is the Max damage he can do in both MID/CORNER?
  • Does any of his 3 variations have Bad MU's against most of the cast?
i have messed around with him in all 3 variations.

i personally like the A-list variation for the Special move cancels and his 12(1) run cancel.

and Fisty cups for the B121212 string 9 hit lockdown,

and Stunt double for the pressure high damage and setups

What does TYM feel about the variations?

is any of the 3 viable against most of the cast?
 
QXD

QXD

Noob
I would say upper mid tier, he has a really strong pressure game in a-list and stunt double, but more mix up in stunt double. hes a nightmare to deal with in the corner, and has the ability to pressure with 11 and set up throws. As for weaknesses his d2 isn't that great, but ive had some success with stand 1 as a anti air. He also doesn't have to hard of a time with zoning as a well timed ex shadow kick can get you right in, as well as having a sub par fireball game. On a final note, his d4 is very fast, puts him low to the ground, and is -1 on block. Might be top 5 pokes in the game tbh.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Speaking for Stunt Double Johnny Cage:

I believe he lies somewhere in mid tier land. High or Low mid tier comes and goes. He has more bad MU's than good, but many are even at the moment.

A-List and SD are both good, each has it's good MU's and bad.

Weak points for SD are offensive and defensive air situations. He sucks in the air, and sucks defending against airborne attacks. He whiffs like crazy on small hitboxes.

Strengths...SD can hit really really hard. He also has better than average pressure. Good chip damage.

He absolutely needs to be patched to fix the whiffing. It alone makes him lose some MU's. Buffs are debatable.


You have to put the time in if you want to be good with him. He doesnt have easy mode dirt. If fixed, I could see him being very viable. If over tweaked, he could hit the top tier.
 
P

P.F.

Noob
Name v.5.0 said:
Speaking for Stunt Double Johnny Cage:

I believe he lies somewhere in mid tier land. High or Low mid tier comes and goes. He has more bad MU's than good, but many are even at the moment.

A-List and SD are both good, each has it's good MU's and bad.

Weak points for SD are offensive and defensive air situations. He sucks in the air, and sucks defending against airborne attacks. He whiffs like crazy on small hitboxes.

Strengths...SD can hit really really hard. He also has better than average pressure. Good chip damage.

He absolutely needs to be patched to fix the whiffing. It alone makes him lose some MU's. Buffs are debatable.


You have to put the time in if you want to be good with him. He doesnt have easy mode dirt. If fixed, I could see him being very viable. If over tweaked, he could hit the top tier.
Click to expand...
You could consider Fisticuffs his easy mode. It just doesn't pay big dividends like the other characters' easy modes do, such as Bojutsu.

Johnny is pretty good as is though; mainly he needs his hitboxes fixed. SD and A-List variation wise don't need to be touched, Fisticuffs just needs 'something' to make it stand out.
 
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Iustinus

Iustinus

Deus Fulminatus
I only play Stunt Double.

Too many hitbox issues and garbage air attacks, making crossups and jump ins laughable. Good pressure and the clones help a bit with getting outzoned, although it still can be problematic. Altogether he feels mid tier to me.
 
DrFolmer

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
Johnny is decent

I have to admit that I'm a bit confused at times - some people will claim Johnny is just below top tier (mostly people who don't play Johnny) and others will claim he's on the lower mid tier. Guys like Xinok and Cheapeddie definitely show the potential of the character, but I also think that their succes comes from their individual performance as professional fighting game players - they're definitely very talented.

My initial impression was kinda bad. I played Johnny almost exclusively in MK9 since release (playing a little Kano on the side) and I was shocked when I saw his MKX frame data. This was before I got into the run mechanics and how it could be used to eliminate some of the otherwise bad recovery on his strings to create advantage. After uncovering the true strength of my favourite character in Mortal Kombat in general, I decided to stick with him despite his somewhat slow moves. Johnny is absolutely rewarding when you get up close, but that's the case of many more popular rushdown characters (Kung Lao, Liu Kang, Jax, D'vorah etc.). I hear people say that Johnny is a nightmare in the corner, but in MKX - everyone feels like a nightmare in the corner because of the insane 50/50's and lack of invincible frames.

I want to believe he's good, but that air game of his is hurting him bad. It's just not rewarding when you make several reads to close in on someone, and they can just win when you go for the jump in due to Johnny activating T-rex mode, drastically reducing his reach. It's also a pain being on the other end, being the one having to deal with jump ins. I feel like I lose more often in exchanges as Johnny compared to jump ins when I'm playing as Kano (not because of the air ball, simply the d2). I feel jump ins are essential for a rushdown fighter.

As for the whiff issues, I tend to just use strings I know will hit mid. His 114 is listed as mid but it looks high so it's only natural for me that it whiffs but I sure would love to use it more.

I personally use A-list, but I would give Stunt Double the title of being Cage's best variation. It just seems to have more options.

Fisticuffs needs some help though. BUFFS, not tweaks. You sacrifice so much for the Speedbag, it needs something to make it worth your while.

These are just impressions, I can still develop and level up, but I still think some of these are legit issues.
 
boy_wunda

boy_wunda

birdie boys unite
He actually gets pretty solid damage in A-List provided you can master the SKRC. He gets anywhere between 35-38 percent 1 bar midscreen and and between 37-40 percent meterless in the corner. I haven't played Stunt Double much, but I've been messing around with it a bit and he gets some really crazy corner damage. However, his pokes are all really slow. IMO it is very far-fetched to say his d4 is a top 5 poke in the game.
 
D

Deleted member 9158

Guest
QXD said:
I would say upper mid tier, he has a really strong pressure game in a-list and stunt double, but more mix up in stunt double. hes a nightmare to deal with in the corner, and has the ability to pressure with 11 and set up throws. As for weaknesses his d2 isn't that great, but ive had some success with stand 1 as a anti air. He also doesn't have to hard of a time with zoning as a well timed ex shadow kick can get you right in, as well as having a sub par fireball game. On a final note, his d4 is very fast, puts him low to the ground, and is -1 on block. Might be top 5 pokes in the game tbh.
Click to expand...

His fireballs are actually pretty good bro. Or maybe the people I play are just oblivious towards dealing with them

Anyway, I picked up fisticuffs and love it. He's not amazing, he's not bad. He's comfortably mid-tier.
 
Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
ESG Jagged said:
Where do you think he lies in the tier placement?
  • What variation is better?
  • What are his weak points?
  • What are his strengths?
  • Does he need Help in the patch department?
  • What is the Max damage he can do in both MID/CORNER?
  • Does any of his 3 variations have Bad MU's against most of the cast?
i have messed around with him in all 3 variations.

i personally like the A-list variation for the Special move cancels and his 12(1) run cancel.

and Fisty cups for the B121212 string 9 hit lockdown,

and Stunt double for the pressure high damage and setups

What does TYM feel about the variations?

is any of the 3 viable against most of the cast?
Click to expand...
I only play A-List, here are your answers:

- He is bottom 10 for sure, probably bottom 5 (here is my bottom 5: Goro - Ferra Torr - Jason - Jaquie - Cage/Takeda)

- His weak points are: a ton of whiffing normals and whiffing on his forceball ex, extremely weak anti airs and jump ins, bad jump, slow normals, bad mobility, stamina dependent, no 50-50, bad throw, no horizontal range uppercut and njp.

- His strenghts are: good projectile recovery, good low profile move (d4), great advancing normal, good pressure when you have stamina, combo ender that restands.

- Yes he needs help, expecially for his whiffing problems but a few buffs would be alright.

- He does around 35% for one bar midscreen and a bit more in corner. But you'll usually do less damage....his below average damage is compensated by the restand.

- All his 3 variations have a majority of bad matchups against the rest of the roster.

- He is somewhat viable if you are a good player and have good execution (I consider truly unviable only Goro), but prepare for a lot of uphill battles. You'll almost never get a favourable matchup and will usually have to work more than the other characters to get the win.
 
V

Vintagesoul

Noob
Save the whiff issues (my personal biggest peeve is stand 1 whiffing on crouch block), he has the tools to be a top 10 character.

I used to play Brawler Cassie extensively. Now I pretty much play A List exclusively. This is how I'd compare them:

- Cassie has much better defense (2nd best in the game probably) with ex power flip. Johnny's defence is much more read based. Unlike what a lot of people in these forums say, Johnny can anti-air decently. However, Cassie gets 34% of a 6 frame armored launcher, so there's really no contest here.

- Cassie has a much better jump game- faster jump, better jump 1, 50/50s off blocked jumps.

- Cassie's whiff punishing is better because of her b212 string and its insanely disjointed hitbox.

- Even with a worse jump, worse anti air and worse whiff punish, Johnny has a much much much stronger neutral. His fireball game is very underrated- he gets plus frames off a blocked non-ex fireball at 2/3 screen. Inside that range he can threaten run f3/ run throw.

Johnny's F3 has a touch less range than Cassie's b1, but it leads to a 50/50 mix up on block which is way better than what Cassie gets off a b1 (+1 with the risk of being interrupted or -6).

This means that at almost every range, Johnny has better control of the match than Cassie who gets outzoned by a lot of the characters, struggles to get in, but then has weaker on block pressure than Johnny when she does get in.

So yes, even though Cassie is a supposed top tier character and conventionally regarded as better than Johnny, I much prefer Johnny to Cassie.
 
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