What character do you see as the scrubbiest?

[Eddy Wang]

To begin, I would like to give my definition of what a scrub is. In my opinion, a scrub is someone who is bad at the game but blames everything under the sun except their own lack of skill. Players like this tend to gravitate towards characters that can make up for their lack of skill; usually in the form of easy-to-use, high reward gameplay. They don't care about the risk associated with what they use, just that it can get them results.

Now that that's out the way, I would like to name Sindel as my pick for the scrubbiest character in this game. I have never once come across a Sindel player that does anything intelligent. Everything is caution to wind. Let me break down why I feel this way.

Whip & Flip: This move is supposed to be an anti zoning tool. However, scrubs will just randomly throw this out for no reason. But the worst part about this move is that reward is mediocre for the risk you take to use it. Unless you're fishing for the KB, it's not worth being -22 on block for 12%.

KB Scream: There is never a worse feeling than being hit by this. Comboed into 40% because you hit a button at the wrong time for 3/4 the screen. I've been hit by this because a Sindel just burnt both bars one after the other and I got hit by the second trying to push my advantage. 0 risk taken for amazing reward.

F4U3: I tried a lot of things to see what can punish this and I can't find anything. It doesn't have a gap, so a flawless block attack can't punish. Even in the corner she can't be punished. Hell, F4 by itself is only -7, so unless you have a 6 frame jab, good luck. 0 risk for a decent amount of reward.

Now I ask you, TYM, what characters do you label as scrubby?

There is no such thing as scrub character, what exist in this game are poorly designed mechanics mashed together and we are all just facing consequences of it. Some characters comply with its rules, others simply don't.

There is no turns, whoever wins a poke war can be flawless blocked launched and stole that turn back.
There is no advantage in damage, whoever makes a mistake gets to break away AFTER they make a mistake and get punished for it with a full combo in certain cases
There is no knockdown advantage, wakeup buttons it's a thing.

There is no meter management, meter builds back on it's own even at round end taunts, and special usage doesn't give repercussions to the meter rate, encouraging the usage of anything without though process behind it.
As result, characters who needed meter to keep themselves in check can just continue to pummel in.

Fullscreen jumps, can't jump projectiles on reaction, some jumps are so poorly designed. Insane jump kicks as tradition.

No pushback on blocked pokes, to encourage it's mashing and give a 50-50 for no reason.

Fatal blows wish push back, on top of the cinematic becoming a drag, the mini-game to increase it's damage, they come back if they miss. Gera's has insane range on his Fatal blow that sucks you in, but if you guard, by some impossible law of physics it pushes you the fuck out

Some characters are already good and are barely affected by the rules of this game, others, however, have to suffer the dilemma of being held back by a system that works against them most of the time.

To put it simple, there is too many guessing situations in this game where it shouldn't have, you get a combo, i have the chance to break away, so the one who punishes the mistake has to guess twice to get a reward.
You gain a poke war, there is a chance you might get flawless blocked.
You block a poke, either a grab, a high, or another poke will come despite them being minus.

it's all guess behind guess and behind more guesses, no wonder we start to blame on characters that refuse to play by the rules of this game and call them scrubs.

 

[Shale101]

There is no such thing as scrub character, what exist in this game are poorly designed mechanics mashed together and we are all just facing consequences of it. Some characters comply with its rules, others simply don't.

There is no turns, whoever wins a poke war can be flawless blocked launched and stole that turn back.
There is no advantage in damage, whoever makes a mistake gets to break away AFTER they make a mistake and get punished for it with a full combo in certain cases
There is no knockdown advantage, wakeup buttons it's a thing.

There is no meter management, meter builds back on it's own even at round end taunts, and special usage doesn't give repercussions to the meter rate, encouraging the usage of anything without though process behind it.
As result, characters who needed meter to keep themselves in check can just continue to pummel in.

Fullscreen jumps, can't jump projectiles on reaction, some jumps are so poorly designed. Insane jump kicks as tradition.

No pushback on blocked pokes, to encourage it's mashing and give a 50-50 for no reason.

Fatal blows wish push back, on top of the cinematic becoming a drag, the mini-game to increase it's damage, they come back if they miss. Gera's has insane range on his Fatal blow that sucks you in, but if you guard, by some impossible law of physics it pushes you the fuck out

Some characters are already good and are barely affected by the rules of this game, others, however, have to suffer the dilemma of being held back by a system that works against them most of the time.

To put it simple, there is too many guessing situations in this game where it shouldn't have, you get a combo, i have the chance to break away, so the one who punishes the mistake has to guess twice to get a reward.
You gain a poke war, there is a chance you might get flawless blocked.
You block a poke, either a grab, a high, or another poke will come despite them being minus.

it's all guess behind guess and behind more guesses, no wonder we start to blame on characters that refuse to play by the rules of this game and call them scrubs.

All of this ALL DAY LONG

 

[Marlow]

There is no turns, whoever wins a poke war can be flawless blocked launched and stole that turn back.

Not sure why this is a bad thing? If someone is trying to flawless block can't you simply throw them? Or delay the timing or go for a move with slightly longer startup and blow them up?

There is no advantage in damage, whoever makes a mistake gets to break away AFTER they make a mistake and get punished for it with a full combo in certain cases

Again, while this isn't implemented perfectly, why is the core idea a bad thing? And is it really that hard to play around? Characters can realistically only breakaway twice per round, and once they do they lose wakeup options, flawless block ability, and breakaway ability for the next 15 seconds. Plus depending on the character you can keep combos unbreakable.

There is no meter management, meter builds back on it's own even at round end taunts, and special usage doesn't give repercussions to the meter rate, encouraging the usage of anything without though process behind it.

There's still meter management, it's just based on time rather than specials. You also only have two bars, and different moves cause meter to regenerate at different rates.

To put it simple, there is too many guessing situations in this game

I don't actually have as much of a problem with this. Yeah, there's less guaranteed in MK11 compared to past games, so it's not as straight forward flowchart style of play. To me it just puts a bigger premium on understanding the actual risk/reward of situations, finding ways to steal turns, and trying to read the opponent so that you can make better guesses.

 

[Marinjuana]

It already has no depth and no neutral, now it has no turns either.. Next thing you know, MK11 will have no mixups! What's after that, no health bars!?

#MK11isntevenafightinggame

 

[Eddy Wang]

Not sure why this is a bad thing? If someone is trying to flawless block can't you simply throw them? Or delay the timing or go for a move with slightly longer startup and blow them up?

Not everything in the game needs to be a guess.

Again, while this isn't implemented perfectly, why is the core idea a bad thing? And is it really that hard to play around? Characters can realistically only breakaway twice per round, and once they do they lose wakeup options, flawless block ability, and breakaway ability for the next 15 seconds. Plus depending on the character you can keep combos unbreakable.

You already made a mistake, you are given the chance to escape after. If your character MU it's 6-4 tp 7-3 MUs against your opponent's character and he doesn't get the opportunity to launch your character as much as you do his, he will never going to be given advantage at all, because the only time he could score continuous damage on your mistake, you have a second/third chance to escape.
Wakeup options are still a thing, wakeup buttons, even if they break, and there are character who don't rely much o meter to enforce their play, Liu Kang for example is among these chars, Sheeva and so on.

There's still meter management, it's just based on time rather than specials. You also only have two bars, and different moves cause meter to regenerate at different rates.

Proof or doesn't exist, because meter regens at same rate as any other special, they even regen during round end taunts, so what's really at play here? sit on screen for 8 seconds and get a spent bar back?

I don't actually have as much of a problem with this. Yeah, there's less guaranteed in MK11 compared to past games, so it's not as straight forward flowchart style of play. To me it just puts a bigger premium on understanding the actual risk/reward of situations, finding ways to steal turns, and trying to read the opponent so that you can make better guesses.

We have to guess when we are right, that's what is wrong with this game.
"Oh, I punished a mistake with a launch, but now I have to guess if they will break away"
"Oh, I'm plus 20 on hit, I can apply free pressure, but now I have to guess if they will flawless block or neutral duck, why does pokes jail for then? if you can just flawless block, so I can hesitate despite being right?"
"Oh my opponent did a -6 jab, it's my turn, but now I have to guess either he will poke again or if he will neutral duck"
"Oh, I just scored a knockdown, but now I have to guess either he will wakeup with normals, jumping, roll, or wakeup flawless block my meaty despite me having knockdown advantage."

Its all, guess behind guesses and more guesses, who guesses more wins, NRS finally managed to build finally a coinflip fighting game.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Sub Zero has scrub aspects (he does not deserve that slide KB if slide startup and distance is that stupid). I'd say Sheeva has scrub aspects, like stomp. If you eliminate that, you gotta play good footsies with both chars to succeed at even a medium level.

But overall head to toe, most scrubby in mk11 to me is

Geras pre-nerf prob top 1 scrubby mk11 history. Not anymore...

Liu Kang. Easy easy easy top pick. Must be amazing to have a fwd moving 11 frame mid that eats up virtually every button in space. Must be nice being able to press 123 every wakeup and know you counter nearly meaty option besides the opponent walking back and letting you go up. Sometimes 123 even clips that LOL.

Sindel. Brainless char. Absolutely brainless and scrubby. 2 fatal blows must be nice.

Joker. Plus frames on push back on safety on 2 fatal blows, on options on options on options. Sickening.


Honorable mention: Erron Black. No explanation needed lmao.

most of the people that use the chars above aren't good at mk11 at all. They scrub themselves to yolo wins in a FT2 format.

 

[Marlow]

Its all, guess behind guesses and more guesses, who guesses more wins, NRS finally managed to build finally a coinflip fighting game.

I'm fine with that though. I don't think the game is nearly as guess heavy as you're making it out to be, and I don't think it's all pure 50/50 guesses. If it was we'd see lot less consistency in tournaments and competitive play.

The game still rewards strong neutral/spacing/footsies play, it still rewards being able to stagger and mix up the opponent, being able to anti-air, being able to use a mechanic like flawless block, being able to manage resources like meter, KB, and FB. Just because a situation is not always guaranteed doesn't mean it's the same as a coin flip.

 

[Marlow]

@Eddy Wang Not that I think the game is perfect or wouldn't benefit from some further refinement. There's plenty of mechanics, moves, and frame data adjustments that should probably be made. But when I'm looking at MK9, MKX, and MK11, I think all three are different but all three are great games.

 

[Obly]

Its all, guess behind guesses and more guesses, who guesses more wins, NRS finally managed to build finally a coinflip fighting game.

I hear ya on a lot of these frustrations, but c'mon, this is an exaggeration. If MK11 match outcomes really were decided by random chance, then I, you, everyone here would have exactly the same odds of winning a tournament--heck, the whole pro series!--as anyone else on earth. Does anybody believe that's true?

Random chance might get me a lucky combo, maybe win a lucky round, maybe even a really lucky match as an outlier--but luck is no replacement for skill in the long-run. We all get pissed when we get sucker punched by a lucky hit or just make the wrong read in a situation, but a lot of players wildly exaggerate how much luck affects longer-term outcomes over the whole round, match, and set.

That said, I do wish NRS would just give us a damn wifi filter for competitive modes. Unstable connections do increase the effect of luck and random chance, and I agree it's unfair to force players to accept matches in those conditions.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I hear ya on a lot of these frustrations, but c'mon, this is an exaggeration. If MK11 match outcomes really were decided by random chance, then I, you, everyone here would have exactly the same odds of winning a tournament--heck, the whole pro series!--as anyone else on earth. Does anybody believe that's true?

Random chance might get me a lucky combo, maybe win a lucky round, maybe even a really lucky match as an outlier--but luck is no replacement for skill in the long-run. We all get pissed when we get sucker punched by a lucky hit or just make the wrong read in a situation, but a lot of players wildly exaggerate how much luck affects longer-term outcomes over the whole round, match, and set.

That said, I do wish NRS would just give us a damn wifi filter for competitive modes. Unstable connections do increase the effect of luck and random chance, and I agree it's unfair to force players to accept matches in those conditions.

That was indeed an exaggeration, but the circumstances are there.

 

[Jowabunga]

The mix can be pretty obnoxious to be fair, but I still see the blurred lines with regarding to turn-taking as a much bigger issue.

 

[exflyingbooty]

Anyone with a 6 frame d+1 or d+3

 

[Eddy Wang]

I hear ya on a lot of these frustrations, but c'mon, this is an exaggeration. If MK11 match outcomes really were decided by random chance, then I, you, everyone here would have exactly the same odds of winning a tournament--heck, the whole pro series!--as anyone else on earth. Does anybody believe that's true?

Random chance might get me a lucky combo, maybe win a lucky round, maybe even a really lucky match as an outlier--but luck is no replacement for skill in the long-run. We all get pissed when we get sucker punched by a lucky hit or just make the wrong read in a situation, but a lot of players wildly exaggerate how much luck affects longer-term outcomes over the whole round, match, and set.

That said, I do wish NRS would just give us a damn wifi filter for competitive modes. Unstable connections do increase the effect of luck and random chance, and I agree it's unfair to force players to accept matches in those conditions.

No they are not random, the line is just blurried, and as I said earlier in this thread, some characters don't have to follow or abide by the majority of these rules in one way or the other, which subsequently makes them the best characters in the game.

Sub for example doesn't need juggles to do very decent and fearful damage, so does Jacqui.
Rain has a juggle combo route that completely obliterates breakaway and becomes pointless to escape
Also Rain can escape flawless blocks launchers if he has hydroplane equiped
Sheeva doesn't need meter to stomp all day in any way possible, and the stomp alone shuts down 90% of the game
Fujin plays literally in the air, so does sindel.
Kabal doesn't have to worry about flawless blocks if any of his strings is regular guarded.

Just to name a few examples.
My point was that there are some characters that don't play MK11, they play something else since these rules don't apply to them in one way or another.

Which we then go in our way and call these characters scrubs.

 

[BarakaTile]

Kano, Sheeva, Scrub-Zero, Joker, Jacqui, Fujin, Liu Kang, Kabal


Mongrel characters best suited to people who eat Dog Food as a snack.

 

[BarakaTile]

Oh and how could I forget the peanut brained Scorpion community?

 

[DoDaMuSiC]

Yall’s definition of scrubby is really weird to me

Sub isn’t a scrub character because of yolo slides or 50/50s, thats just how he is designed to be played.

Jacqui or Cetrion or whatever top tier characters yall naming aren’t scrub because they have oppressing movesets.

Sindel isn’t a scrub character because people be doing a raw unsafe oh over and over again and you are letting yourself get hit by it.

Only character that could fall to that category is Sheeva because of stomp which legit is a cheesy way to win matches and most characters cant do anything about it other than pray

So many people in here really need to focus on why they losing in kl to random people and adapt and improve, instead of look for excuses and call character archetypes scrub because you lost

 

[BarakaTile]

Yall’s definition of scrubby is really weird to me

Sub isn’t a scrub character because of yolo slides or 50/50s, thats just how he is designed to be played.

Jacqui or Cetrion or whatever top tier characters yall naming aren’t scrub because they have oppressing movesets.

Sindel isn’t a scrub character because people be doing a raw unsafe oh over and over again and you are letting yourself get hit by it.

Only character that could fall to that category is Sheeva because of stomp which legit is a cheesy way to win matches and most characters cant do anything about it other than pray

So many people in here really need to focus on why they losing in kl to random people and adapt and improve, instead of look for excuses and call character archetypes scrub because you lost

All shittalking aside There's a particular salt creating mindset some people fall into. And I didn't realize it until today when someone complained to me after they lost.

"The character I play is fair and honest, the character I lost to is scrubby"

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Paulo is the scrubbiest character in NRS history. The way he understands balance and the meta of the game is top scrub tier shit.

See how the moron nerfed Sheeva's stomp? He doesn't even understand the problem, nor does anyone else on his "team". Still don't believe there's more than one person that's playing Fortnite all day balancing this game.

 

[LaidbackOne]

Not sure why this is a bad thing? If someone is trying to flawless block can't you simply throw them? Or delay the timing or go for a move with slightly longer startup and blow them up?



Again, while this isn't implemented perfectly, why is the core idea a bad thing? And is it really that hard to play around? Characters can realistically only breakaway twice per round, and once they do they lose wakeup options, flawless block ability, and breakaway ability for the next 15 seconds. Plus depending on the character you can keep combos unbreakable.



There's still meter management, it's just based on time rather than specials. You also only have two bars, and different moves cause meter to regenerate at different rates.



I don't actually have as much of a problem with this. Yeah, there's less guaranteed in MK11 compared to past games, so it's not as straight forward flowchart style of play. To me it just puts a bigger premium on understanding the actual risk/reward of situations, finding ways to steal turns, and trying to read the opponent so that you can make better guesses.

Probably because fighting games are based on turns and taking your turn after your opponent is - on block shouldn’t be a mind game.

 

[Marinjuana]

Probably because fighting games are based on turns and taking your turn after your opponent is - on block shouldn’t be a mind game.

It's been a thing in every NRS game

 

[DeftMonk]

No they are not random, the line is just blurried, and as I said earlier in this thread, some characters don't have to follow or abide by the majority of these rules in one way or the other, which subsequently makes them the best characters in the game.

Sub for example doesn't need juggles to do very decent and fearful damage, so does Jacqui.
Rain has a juggle combo route that completely obliterates breakaway and becomes pointless to escape
Also Rain can escape flawless blocks launchers if he has hydroplane equiped
Sheeva doesn't need meter to stomp all day in any way possible, and the stomp alone shuts down 90% of the game
Fujin plays literally in the air, so does sindel.
Kabal doesn't have to worry about flawless blocks if any of his strings is regular guarded.

Just to name a few examples.
My point was that there are some characters that don't play MK11, they play something else since these rules don't apply to them in one way or another.

Which we then go in our way and call these characters scrubs.

Mk11 has a lot of of fresh ideas and that’s cool but, some characters definitely seem to benefit from these new “new player friendly” mechanics more.

Devs seem to be finding more and more ways for you to get out of bad situations because new players don’t like when they can’t move. Just look at GG strive and how they changed the corner so it breaks and sends u mid screen again. This is obviously gonna benefit axl (dhalsim style archetype) more than potemkin (grappler with movement speed of wet turd).

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Just look at GG strive and how they changed the corner so it breaks and sends u mid screen again. This is obviously gonna benefit axl (dhalsim style archetype) more than potemkin (grappler with movement speed of wet turd).

Yeah but breaking the wall also gives a HUGE advantage to the attacker. Constant meter gain, advantage, and 10% increased damage and defense. Every character benefits big time.

Also, if I have my information right, depending on what broke the wall can affect the advantage situation of the resulting screen reset so it's not a perfect reset. Take this part with a grain of salt though cause I might have it wrong.

Sub for example doesn't need juggles to do very decent and fearful damage, so does Jacqui.
Rain has a juggle combo route that completely obliterates breakaway and becomes pointless to escape
Also Rain can escape flawless blocks launchers if he has hydroplane equiped
Sheeva doesn't need meter to stomp all day in any way possible, and the stomp alone shuts down 90% of the game
Fujin plays literally in the air, so does sindel.
Kabal doesn't have to worry about flawless blocks if any of his strings is regular guarded.

Maybe there's some context I'm missing but I don't see the problem with this. Apart from Sheeva being able to start another stomp for free after landing one what is bad about this list?

 

[DeftMonk]

Yeah but breaking the wall also gives a HUGE advantage to the attacker. Constant meter gain, advantage, and 10% increased damage and defense. Every character benefits big time.

Also, if I have my information right, depending on what broke the wall can affect the advantage situation of the resulting screen reset so it's not a perfect reset. Take this part with a grain of salt though cause I might have it wrong.


Maybe there's some context I'm missing but I don't see the problem with this. Apart from Sheeva being able to start another stomp for free after landing one what is bad about this list?

Bro you can’t kill with a wall combo (from what I’ve seen) no matter how low they are and I’m sorry but having someone cornered is a way bigger advantage imo than getting a free Roman cancel 15 seconds later (from passive meter gain) imo.

I know some streamers are trying to stay positive about this change but let’s face it... it’s just another noob friendly thing similar to what’s found all about mk11. Just like combos being neutered and gatlings removed.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Bro you can’t kill with a wall combo (from what I’ve seen) no matter how low they are

You definitely can.

Also, as I wrote there, it's more than just an extra bit of tension gauge.

 

[DeftMonk]

You definitely can.

Also, as I wrote there, it's more than just an extra bit of tension gauge.

U can? I saw a lot of streams and I never ever saw a wall break combo kill. It always just took them to a magic pixel. I think I only saw a guy die once from a super when he was splatted. I mean obviously u can die while splatted but the wall breaking doesn’t seem to kill?