What's new

What changes to MK11 would make the meta exciting?,

grandabx

The Flameater
I don't even know what to say, a lot of these ideas are pretty bad, completely unfeasible, or at the least really subjective. I'm not sure these would make the meta more exciting, just different.
Care to elaborate? Anyone can make an empty statement, but can they explain why things work/don't work?
 
Remove fb push back remove fb armour, make d2s safe but no pushback, d2 kb works only against whiffed throws, remove blocked poke into throw bullshit unless it's a tick throw cmd grab, make d2 have invincibility against jump kicks on the last 4 frames. Fix hitboxes already djdueudjdjdjn2kkeikdmfnfid92
 
Last edited:

Gooberking

Solidly Mediocre
Here might be a place to start.
6. Very fast attacks (like D1) should have no + frames and slower, more risky attacks should have better frame advantage.
It's normal across fighters for fast attacks to be quick and lead to less, but leave you plus on hit and negative on block. The reward for lading slower moves is getting what you really want, like optimal damage or hard knockdowns, Tekken corkscrews, whatever. It's that way for a reason.

In some respects MK isn't the ideal example in that lots of characters can do high damage off s1's, but generally speaking, your goal isn't to use fast moves just because they are faster or because they lead to damage, it's because they get you plus frames you can then spend to make those slower moves safe to use.

It creates a situation where, what's the point of a low damage move that goes nowhere? On the other hand, how do you safely put slow moves on the screen? How do I continue pressure if I hit you with fast moves and we both end up neutral, and the only thing either one of us can do is the same thing? It was my turn, I got the hit, but now it's whoever's turn it is with the fastest character.

What does that do to the game and is it even playable? It seems like it would mess with turn order a lot, and negate the use of certain kinds of moves in situations to where everyone has less options. I'm not even sure what all the implications are but I guessing there are lots of them.
 

Gooberking

Solidly Mediocre
+ frames on block, not hitstun. That is what I mean.
I'd say ok but then I really don't understand because fast moves (d1's) are already negative on block. A few strings like Frost's 22 have plus frames but there aren't a million of them and LK even got his taken away.

Are you saying you want slow power hits into plus frames? So I could d1, hit confirm, power hit (slow move), into continued pressure on block? Is that the situation you are describing?
 
That's not really true tho (unless we're thinking of 'combo path' differently here). Different toons have a variety of meterless, special, ability, wakeup, and KB launchers. There are combo paths midscreen, in the corner, from anti-air conversions, from wakeups, and from flawless block punishes. I honestly don't see how people keep saying there aren't enough combo paths.

Optimal damage after a launch can feel pretty consistent/same-ish for some characters. But the whole design philosophy for the game is to spend more time in neutral, less time in a juggle state. That's not fundamentally changing at this point.
toons? yuck. people generally stick to the same combo route in this game whether it be from a string, kb starter, or u2. there isn't much in the game that would change how you should combo. in a game like GG Xrd there are variables that actually come in to place where you would need to change a combo frequently
 
Everyone will have their opinion on this and mines would be:

1. In tournament mode only, there are no variations. Every character has a complete set of moves. Tweak weak special attacks.

2. Fatal Blow requires 20% or less health to activate. Has no armor, has range no further than round-start, has long recovery on block and whiff. It goes away completely if used no matter the outcome. Damage scales based on the difference between each player's health (so if the FBer catches up on the opponent's health, it won't be a go-to option all the time). The 20% health requirement makes it less seen by the opponent possibly doing moves/combos that kill before the active state.

3. Chip damage can only come from special moves. Damage-overtime moves. can only place a player at 1% health. They can never kill on their own. Each bar of Last Breath takes 5 special attack hits to deplete.

4. Breakaway places the person using it at -15.

5. Remove most of the wakeup options and and leave only:

  • long delay
  • roll (rolls futher away from opponent)
  • invincible wakeup
6. Very fast attacks (like D1) should have no + frames and slower, more risky attacks should have better frame advantage.

7. Remove all option-selects.

8. More combo routes/launchers.

9. Correct hit/hurtbox inconsistency issues.

10. Teleport moves should have slower start-up.

11. Meter doesn't regenerate during non-fighting sequences.

12. General meter gain is a little bit slower.

Then, I'd add what TrueUnderDawgGaming has suggested:

fine with everything but 6 and 10
 

623HS

Noob
toons? yuck. people generally stick to the same combo route in this game whether it be from a string, kb starter, or u2. there isn't much in the game that would change how you should combo. in a game like GG Xrd there are variables that actually come in to place where you would need to change a combo frequently
thats's what people complain about xrd lmao, there are tons of meterless combos that do it all and that +r combos have more variations ( slash fans also said the same thing about how fb reduce combo variety in ac back in the day though)
 
thats's what people complain about xrd lmao, there are tons of meterless combos that do it all and that +r combos have more variations ( slash fans also said the same thing about how fb reduce combo variety in ac back in the day though)
they complain because of things like character weights. it's nice to have multiple combos for multiple situations but if you have to change just because of character designs that might not even be inherent.
 

grandabx

The Flameater
I'd say ok but then I really don't understand because fast moves (d1's) are already negative on block. A few strings like Frost's 22 have plus frames but there aren't a million of them and LK even got his taken away.

Are you saying you want slow power hits into plus frames? So I could d1, hit confirm, power hit (slow move), into continued pressure on block? Is that the situation you are describing?
More as in risk vs reward. Something with low risk should have low reward to incentivize using more riskier attacks effectively. D1 just be something people will gravitate to because it's low risk.
 
That's cool, but are you really fine with zoners having fast teleports?
i'm not but I play scorpion and to make his teleport even slower would upset me. tbh i don't think the zoners should have teleports at all. it's already like 1 or 2 frames slower than his mkx teleport.
 

623HS

Noob
they complain because of things like character weights. it's nice to have multiple combos for multiple situations but if you have to change just because of character designs that might not even be inherent.
well that is one thing but the main complain is that everyone in xrd tend to have a meterless combo that can get knockdown oki and corner off everthing so you dont have to pick routes, it's pretty noticable with ky and johnny, all the new characters are like that as well
 

grandabx

The Flameater
i'm not but I play scorpion and to make his teleport even slower would upset me. tbh i don't think the zoners should have teleports at all. it's already like 1 or 2 frames slower than his mkx teleport.
I mean for zoners, not scorpion
 
well that is one thing but the main complain is that everyone in xrd tend to have a meterless combo that can get knockdown oki and corner off everthing so you dont have to pick routes, it's pretty noticable with ky and johnny, all the new characters are like that as well
Yeah some characters pretty much just have their gameplay laid out for them after knockdown but I've been by so many variations of ky combos. At least when i play sol i pretty much have to switch up my combo depending on the situation. Factors being online so i might not be able to consistently dust loop
 

623HS

Noob
Yeah some characters pretty much just have their gameplay laid out for them after knockdown but I've been by so many variations of ky combos. At least when i play sol i pretty much have to switch up my combo depending on the situation. Factors being online so i might not be able to consistently dust loop
yeah xrd sol is a big exception, even pros all use different combos, and they all played him extremely differently too. literally everything i want from a fighting game character
 
The easiest and best thing they can do to this game to make it the best MK ever is...
Make Shao Kahn's f34 string great again - safe or with no flawless block gap