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What changes to MK11 would make the meta exciting?,

grandabx

The Flameater
Everyone will have their opinion on this and mines would be:

1. In tournament mode only, there are no variations. Every character has a complete set of moves. Tweak weak special attacks.

2. Fatal Blow requires 20% or less health to activate. Has no armor, has range no further than round-start, has long recovery on block and whiff. It goes away completely if used no matter the outcome. Damage scales based on the difference between each player's health (so if the FBer catches up on the opponent's health, it won't be a go-to option all the time). The 20% health requirement makes it less seen by the opponent possibly doing moves/combos that kill before the active state.

3. Chip damage can only come from special moves. Damage-overtime moves. can only place a player at 1% health. They can never kill on their own. Each bar of Last Breath takes 5 special attack hits to deplete.

4. Breakaway places the person using it at -15.

5. Remove most of the wakeup options and and leave only:

  • long delay
  • roll (rolls futher away from opponent)
  • invincible wakeup
6. Very fast attacks (like D1) should have no + frames and slower, more risky attacks should have better frame advantage.

7. Remove all option-selects.

8. More combo routes/launchers.

9. Correct hit/hurtbox inconsistency issues.

10. Teleport moves should have slower start-up.

11. Meter doesn't regenerate during non-fighting sequences.

12. General meter gain is a little bit slower.

Then, I'd add what TrueUnderDawgGaming has suggested:

 

Vslayer

Kurses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
I didn't watch his video yet but here are things I THINK would make it exciting even if they're big changes.

  • More combo paths, meaning more specials or normals that pop-up
  • Fatal blows can only be used once per match and if you miss it, too bad
  • Bring back MKX meter system and combo breaks
The more I play MK11 the more I miss MKX's meter system and armor break. I guess all these changes would make it a lot more like MKX, but is that a bad thing? :coffee: With the neutral game we have in 11, I think we'd have a really fun game if those were implemented.
 

Gooberking

Solidly Mediocre
Changes don't mean someone doesn't like it, nothing's perfect, we all seek improvement for the things we love.

Also make Kitana's D3 +4 that is all.
I know that can be true, but people wanting changes often seem like they don't. It's not like "Make MK great by turning it into something totally different" threads are rare. Or even rare coming from people that don't seem to understand the game. Given I don't either, it's concerning when I see problems and misunderstandings driving conversations.

As someone that does like it, it get's exhausting hearing people complain and try turn the game into something else or something that already exists. It's not "exciting" or "creative" enough. "Why can chip kill?" "I got hit hard and think I should have won. Internet I was wronged!" "NRS, a highly skilled team of intensely talented and creative people that have experience making FG, don't know what they are doing. I, who have never made a game, and can't test my changes like they can could do it better. NRS is Fkng suPid. Listen to my Wizdoom"

I get that's not he totality of this particular thread, but I've seen enough of this that my eyes auto roll when people start trying to weigh in on what the game should be. There are lots of games that are different things. I like lots of other games, non of which I can seem to talk people into playing.
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
Playing patient and neutral in mk11 results in your opponent always having full meter to do whatever they want. I wish you had to build meter in mk11. Also wakeup buttons should not be a thing. Also fatal blow armor should not be a thing.

I don't mind JIKs so much, there's counter to that IMO, but maybe bolster s1 hitboxes for those that have weak AA's. Like u never hear cetrion, johnny, liu, jacqui players complain about JIK bc they can just jab 'em out lmao. Give that to everyone.
 

Vslayer

Kurses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
I know that can be true, but people wanting changes often seem like they don't. It's not like "Make MK great by turning it into something totally different" threads are rare. Or even rare coming from people that don't seem to understand the game. Given I don't either, it's concerning when I see problems and misunderstandings driving conversations.

As someone that does like it, it get's exhausting hearing people complain and try turn the game into something else or something that already exists. It's not "exciting" or "creative" enough. "Why can chip kill?" "I got hit hard and think I should have won. Internet I was wronged!" "NRS, a highly skilled team of intensely talented and creative people that have experience making FG, don't know what they are doing. I, who have never made a game, and can't test my changes like they can could do it better. NRS is Fkng suPid. Listen to my Wizdoom"

I get that's not he totality of this particular thread, but I've seen enough of this that my eyes auto roll when people start trying to weigh in on what the game should be. There are lots of games that are different things. I like lots of other games, non of which I can seem to talk people into playing.
I mean, people who call NRS incompetent are hypocritical considering they know jack shit of what it takes to make a fighting game from scratch and to implement new mechanics. People on the internet will ALWAYS be like that, they try to discrete people who have experience while not realizing that they know even less then them so how can they even say that NRS does is wrong? They can't.

However, I think anyone can make suggestions as to how the game could be a bit more exciting. I have fun playing it still, but I do think that things like more combo paths, and like Zero said below here, a meter system that builds while you play, not that replenishes over time would overall make the game better. Sometimes change is good, but that's not always the case. Most developers understand this and when something isn't working they change it. I think so far NRS has been really attentive of fan feedback and it shows.

Playing patient and neutral in mk11 results in your opponent always having full meter to do whatever they want. I wish you had to build meter in mk11.
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
I know that can be true, but people wanting changes often seem like they don't. It's not like "Make MK great by turning it into something totally different" threads are rare. Or even rare coming from people that don't seem to understand the game. Given I don't either, it's concerning when I see problems and misunderstandings driving conversations.

As someone that does like it, it get's exhausting hearing people complain and try turn the game into something else or something that already exists. It's not "exciting" or "creative" enough. "Why can chip kill?" "I got hit hard and think I should have won. Internet I was wronged!" "NRS, a highly skilled team of intensely talented and creative people that have experience making FG, don't know what they are doing. I, who have never made a game, and can't test my changes like they can could do it better. NRS is Fkng suPid. Listen to my Wizdoom"

I get that's not he totality of this particular thread, but I've seen enough of this that my eyes auto roll when people start trying to weigh in on what the game should be. There are lots of games that are different things. I like lots of other games, non of which I can seem to talk people into playing.
Quite right. I'm all for serious, constructive dialogue, but when the opening post amounts to "Throw out the current game and rebuild something I like better", that's not a serious conversation-starter. There are plenty of rant/complaint threads already you can add onto.

I'm optimistic that we'll continue to get small quality-of-life fixes for MK11; things like
  • Character balance changes
  • Tweaks to KB requirements to make them more reasonable and fair
  • Minor adjustments to breakaway (like the defender has a forced long wakeup delay to prevent punishing the attacker)
  • Minor adjustments to wakeup options (like forward roll costing 1 offensive bar and 1 defensive bar)
  • Minor adjustments to fatal blows (long-range FBs should be slower; they should all have much longer cooldown if missed)
I don't have a crystal ball, but other than this, I'd wager to say that the base gameplay is not radically changing at this point. Folks are free to continue voicing their opinions of course, but I do wish more members of the NRS community were saying the Serenity Prayer:
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
but I do think that things like more combo paths, and like Zero said below here, a meter system that builds while you play, not that replenishes over time would overall make the game better
I feel like when it comes to combo paths, most people use pretty much the same path every time regardless. Once you know what someone's B&B is, that's what you use. The only difference in combos (for the most part) between MKX and MK11 is in MKX you got to press a few extra buttons and the combos usually lasted an extra 5-10 seconds. They looked flashier, but functionally they seem to work the same to me between games.

I actually like that meter builds over time, I thought it was an interesting way to deal with balance issues that MK has had in the past due to meter being so powerful and some characters getting easier access to meter than others.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

(NOTHING)
Premium Supporter
Rebalance all the special moves for damage scaling and the like, and make all moves available in all modes. Pick your specials at character select. Make variations optional but not mandatory loadouts.
Decrease throw damage from 14% to 12% like it's always been.
Slightly decrease Krushing Blow damage.
And most importantly of all: add a wifi filter to Ranked so people can stop being FORCED to accept shitty connections.
 

623HS

Noob
Just like in some anime fighters I want just enough optimal combos to choose between corner carry, damage, meter, or meaty, or more than one of them if you have resources, more than that is just overkill and people will stick to a few optimals in real match anyway
 

Vslayer

Kurses in moose
Moderator
Premium Supporter
I feel like when it comes to combo paths, most people use pretty much the same path every time regardless. Once you know what someone's B&B is, that's what you use. The only difference in combos (for the most part) between MKX and MK11 is in MKX you got to press a few extra buttons and the combos usually lasted an extra 5-10 seconds. They looked flashier, but functionally they seem to work the same to me between games.

I actually like that meter builds over time, I thought it was an interesting way to deal with balance issues that MK has had in the past due to meter being so powerful and some characters getting easier access to meter than others.
Optimals are a thing yes, but I mean you can have optimals for every combo path. But in this game you only have one path for most characters which is the issue.
 
For me, I'd want to see existing systems more polished as opposed to a full overhaul of things.

NetherRealm Studios stated that they wanted the game to be more neutral and defensive focused, and less combo focused. I think they've generally achieved that goal.

I'd be looking for things like:

1) Make the Tournament Variations the standard Variations across the board, while still allowing Custom Variations to be created for non-Tournament and non-Kombat League game types. Using Kitana as an example, "Her Highness" and "Fan Service" Variation shouldn't appear anywhere. Fan-Fare, Highborn, and Fearless should be the default Variations for the character everywhere.

2) Improving the reliability of wake up option execution.

3) Further game balancing of characters.

4) Further balancing of the Krushing Blow system and Armour Breakers.

5) At this point, allow the concept art and other renders to actually be available in the Krypt, and have less Konsumables in the Krypt and more of the actual Gear, Skins, and other collectibles the player is missing. Throw in Victory poses, Taunts, etc. into this mix.

Basically, I want to be playing the game and focusing on fighting my opponent, as opposed to feeling like I'm fighting the game's mechanics and inputs.
 

Obly

Ambiguous world creator
Optimals are a thing yes, but I mean you can have optimals for every combo path. But in this game you only have one path for most characters which is the issue.
That's not really true tho (unless we're thinking of 'combo path' differently here). Different toons have a variety of meterless, special, ability, wakeup, and KB launchers. There are combo paths midscreen, in the corner, from anti-air conversions, from wakeups, and from flawless block punishes. I honestly don't see how people keep saying there aren't enough combo paths.

Optimal damage after a launch can feel pretty consistent/same-ish for some characters. But the whole design philosophy for the game is to spend more time in neutral, less time in a juggle state. That's not fundamentally changing at this point.
 
I actually like that meter builds over time, I thought it was an interesting way to deal with balance issues that MK has had in the past due to meter being so powerful and some characters getting easier access to meter than others.
Interesting take.

While I like the idea of manually building meter, it is usually implemented in ways I don’t agree with (building (typically offensive) meter for taking damage, etc).

I don’t mind that they regenerate automatically in this game, but I do think they regenerate too quickly, which IME, makes meter too plentiful, reducing the importance of strategic meter usage.
 
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Make the Tournament Variations the standard Variations across the board, while still allowing Custom Variations to be created for non-Tournament and non-Kombat League game types. Using Kitana as an example, "Her Highness" and "Fan Service" Variation shouldn't appear anywhere. Fan-Fare, Highborn, and Fearless should be the default Variations for the character everywhere.
Yeah, I don’t know why they put in those default variations... I understand having presets for the AI to use (and people to select between), but the first two (now three) slots should’ve been locked for tournament variations in all modes, which would have been less confusing for everyone, and also allowed us to use different cosmetic load-outs in KL (one for each variation, which is helpful, for me anyway, to remind myself of which variation I’m using).
 
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Gooberking

Solidly Mediocre
I mean, people who call NRS incompetent are hypocritical considering they know jack shit of what it takes to make a fighting game from scratch and to implement new mechanics. People on the internet will ALWAYS be like that, they try to discrete people who have experience while not realizing that they know even less then them so how can they even say that NRS does is wrong? They can't.

However, I think anyone can make suggestions as to how the game could be a bit more exciting. I have fun playing it still, but I do think that things like more combo paths, and like Zero said below here, a meter system that builds while you play, not that replenishes over time would overall make the game better. Sometimes change is good, but that's not always the case. Most developers understand this and when something isn't working they change it. I think so far NRS has been really attentive of fan feedback and it shows.
People should be able to have and discuss opinions. My reaction is definitely more born out the merry go round the topic has been.

And this part isn't aimed at coming at you are anything like that, but building meter and more complexity in combos (anything really) are two examples of what I don't want.

This is the first game, maybe like ever, that gives you constant meter accrued over building. There are implications to the strategy, but there are implications to doing it the other way. That other way NRS has done over and over, all other games with meter are out there doing the same thing. It's an example of the game being something no other game is, and there isn't anything really wrong with it. Doing the other way doesn't mean problems go away, just that there are different problems (IJ2 problems), and it comes at the cost of killing off something that makes the game unique ; something people might be enjoying they cant get elsewhere.

This is a personal hot take I guess, but I don't want the game to be complicated. I attempt to play most everything. I have a trash memory, and one constant issue I run into is being given to much to mentally juggle and mentally recall. I don't want to have to dig deep into every character and what weird thing they do just to be able to play and keep ahead of people that just mash whatever janky, unreal crazy they've cooked up without ever bothering to care how the game works.

Again there are lots of games for that sort of thing. I actually really like and would be happy to play people in a couple of them, but having a fighter that is more no frills, right to the bone helps me enjoy more of them game and be better overall at it. That's probably me being selfish and wanting the game to be what I want it to be, but in this case the game already is what I want. Other people getting what they want means they might destroy what I have been enjoying about the game and why it's special to me. I'm apparently the person they made this game for, and a lot of other people seem to just want to get in there and turn it into something else.
 

Sugarwatermixlegit

Bruce Campbell 4 MK!!!
Bruce Campbell

But also a better meter system and fatal blows being attached to meter instead of health. Gaining meter for doing jack shit over time just doesn't sit well with me. I would also say just remove KBs but that'll never happen so
 
OP sounds like the typical scrub that thinks option selects are unfair and shit.
If all those changes were made, I'd play something else because the game would suck ass so bad, I might as well play Divekick.

Aside from hitbox issues, breakaway as a hard knockdown and maybe better combo routes (I mean you could actually just pick Fujin, Sindel or Jacqui if you want cool and/or hard combos) , everything on that list sucks.

And TrueUnderdawg is a bitch, shit at the game and shit at making suggestions.
 
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Bruce Campbell

But also a better meter system and fatal blows being attached to meter instead of health. Gaining meter for doing jack shit over time just doesn't sit well with me. I would also say just remove KBs but that'll never happen so
Am I the only one who thinks it's a nice change of pace from the usual NRS "If you have a good projectile, you have meter all day. If you have a bad projectile or none, you'll never have meter"-shit that has plagued every single one of their games?

The meter system for me is the best idea those morons had since human Smoke.