General/Other - Tempest What +12 Means to Tempest Lao

[MadeOfMetal]

Uh I would know this because I said you do the f23 after ex hat on block. Ex hat on block is +12. F2 is 11 frames. Simple math lets me know that the f2 is guaranteed in that scenario and will beat everything the opponent attempts.

That's actually what this whole thread is about: KL's options after ex hat.

yes but it takes 2 frames for you to go from recovery from your +12 frames to throw out an 11 frame move... understand me now its still possible to throw out 5 frame pokes and depending on what the stun is on hit, you may be able to full combo after

im not hating on ya, i understand what your saying, i just know its possible to punish F23, reguardless if you do EX hat before hand, the frames from EX hat dissipate before the gap in F23 about the time you press F

 

[Error404]

So did none of you know that every pressure string into hat spin could be backdashed and afterwards the hat goes on cooldown? His pressure was not legit midscreen even pre-patch. But what do you expect when NRS doesn't let people learn.

 

[Zephyrus]

Why are you complaining about a good move still being a GOOD move? It's super dumb for you to spend a bar to be either +24 on block or launch for a full combo. Like there was never a reason to not spend the bar especially when your shinnok and build meter like candy. So yeah like chill out shinnok is still good.

I didn't say he wasn't. I said this nerf was stupid and it fucking is.

It didn't hurt boneshaper much since it's real problem is still there and it will get nerfed.
It hurts necromancer and impostor... two variations that have never seen a top 8 and will never see one if they don't get decent buffs, unlike the trash they've been getting so far. Impostor hasn't been touched even once. All buffs to it were shared by the other two.

Laughably, the best variation that Shinnok had since day 1, was the one that got great buffs. F+22,1+3 can now be 2in1 and it's fireball is a lot faster and gives you a 50/50 on hit. It losing its mid hitbox is a REALLY good trade for Shinnok mains.

By the way, can you tell me what reason you now have to spend the meter, other than making the opponent fear getting hit with it, thus allowing you to throw unsafe hell sparks?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Your video answered my only question.... you change your block state mid string so you are crouching and can then low poke another 112124. B2 won't happen because it's 18 frames, that's more misinformation.

your avatar is hilarious. everyone gets 4 ping bars, thats about it right

 

[Zephyrus]

no idea. Probably as many times as an Assassin Kitana made top 8?

So I guess she's also still total trash. What move do you think she needs to have +25 frames of block advantage for in order to fiiiinally be viable?? That's what it takes, right?

I thought this thread was about KL tho...

This thread sounds like a bunch of level headed ppl discussing how well rounded this character still is, peppered with salty tears from a select few who can't adapt.

And I never said homogenizing variations was a good idea. I said removing moves with over 24 frames of block advantage was. If your poor shinnok needs adjustments elsewhere, then that's a different issue that I really want no part of, cuz I couldn't care less. I don't claim to know anything anout him or what he needs, and I've never claimed otherwise

uh huh, right, yeah. Can you point me to the nerfs that assassin kitana got?

I'll be waiting to knock that strawman down.

And yes, it's about KL. And I've already said my piece about KL in the same posts I mentioned Shinnok and Tanya. Wasn't it you who then addressed me specifically about Shinnok? No? Another strawman arguments user on this site?

Wonder which group you place me into. I mean, I know KL, LK and Shinnok's strenghts and weaknesses. Those are the three characters I use the most. And when one variation's single strenght that placed it above others gets nerfed with nothing to trade for it, I call bullshit.
Tempest Lao got nerfed hard. From top tier (which I pointed out that it was top tier as soon as the patch that buffed it arrived) to mid tier. And it's upper mid AT BEST. What made tempest good was it's pressure. NRS took that out.

 

[WakeUp DP]

Lao can beat u out with a poke after the +12 hat to jail so u still got to respect

They can also block and counter poke.

 

[Death]

I didn't say he wasn't. I said this nerf was stupid and it fucking is.

It didn't hurt boneshaper much since it's real problem is still there and it will get nerfed.
It hurts necromancer and impostor... two variations that have never seen a top 8 and will never see one if they don't get decent buffs, unlike the trash they've been getting so far. Impostor hasn't been touched even once. All buffs to it were shared by the other two.

Laughably, the best variation that Shinnok had since day 1, was the one that got great buffs. F+22,1+3 can now be 2in1 and it's fireball is a lot faster and gives you a 50/50 on hit. It losing its mid hitbox is a REALLY good trade for Shinnok mains.

By the way, can you tell me what reason you now have to spend the meter, other than making the opponent fear getting hit with it, thus allowing you to throw unsafe hell sparks?

Regular hell sparks being unsafe is kind of a bill thats been going on. In midscreen if you throw it out in footsies you have enough time to backdash~low poke cuz of pushback/range. Its a great move to throw out when you have meter because the player will respect the MB option. Dont buy into the downplay of regular hell sparks.

 

[Zephyrus]

Regular hell sparks being unsafe is kind of a bill thats been going on. In midscreen if you throw it out in footsies you have enough time to backdash~low poke cuz of pushback/range. Its a great move to throw out when you have meter because the player will respect the MB option. Dont buy into the downplay of regular hell sparks.

but that's what I said. Now the meter burn option is simply there to make the opponent respect the MB. Before it served as a tool to allow you to pressure the opponent. Now, if you want to do that you have to MB on the first hit. And even then, anything other than f+3 get's blown up my armor.

 

[Madog32]

uh huh, right, yeah. Can you point me to the nerfs that assassin kitana got?

I'll be waiting to knock that strawman down.

And yes, it's about KL. And I've already said my piece about KL in the same posts I mentioned Shinnok and Tanya. Wasn't it you who then addressed me specifically about Shinnok? No? Another strawman arguments user on this site?

Wonder which group you place me into. I mean, I know KL, LK and Shinnok's strenghts and weaknesses. Those are the three characters I use the most. And when one variation's single strenght that placed it above others gets nerfed with nothing to trade for it, I call bullshit.
Tempest Lao got nerfed hard. From top tier (which I pointed out that it was top tier as soon as the patch that buffed it arrived) to mid tier. And it's upper mid AT BEST. What made tempest good was it's pressure. NRS took that out.

lol.

No. I did not mention anything specific to shinnok. I simply stated that I do not agree with moves that are +25 on block. If shinnok had one, then boo hoo

And of course there were no nerfs to Assassin...cuz it didn't have a single move that was close to +20 on block. According to the logic you were following earlier, she won't ever place without one

EDIT: I've digressed. I honestly couldn't give a flying shit about Shinnok or KL. Never claimed to know what they need to be 'viable'. I stated I agree with the removal of just about any +25 frame advantage on block move, and that was the end of it

 

[WakeUp DP]

It means that Tempest KL got nerfed causing him to go from losing no match ups to losing no match ups still.

Salt.

 

[SplitMushroom]

Imposter is still nice. You just have to think before rushing in after a MB hell spark

 

[SplitMushroom]

You're absolutely right. Let's nerf a character who only got top 8 in a single tournament of the entire game's life so far. Let's nerf his best tool because getting top 8 just once means the character has to be nerfed. I mean... let's ignore the fact that it was *ahem* HIS FUCKING BONESHAPER FIREBALL BUFFS THAT MADE HIM RIDICULOUS,
So, instead of nerfing the frame advantage you get on hit from that fireball that only helps boneshaper, you nerf a move that nerfs the other two variations too. Does that make sense to you or anyone else?

Boneshaper stays pretty much the same.
The other two got nerfed hard.
After a few buffs, necromancer returned to trash tier again. All because of a buff to an entirely different special attack on an entirely different variation. Good balance @colt

I mean with all due respect. I could have like 5% health and 3 bars left in a match. If you're around 50% and I land mimicry, before the patch you would be dead from chip. That isn't really fair

 

[Zephyrus]

lol.

No. I did not mention anything specific to shinnok. I simply stated that I do not agree with moves that are +25 on block. If shinnok had one, then boo hoo

And of course there were no nerfs to Assassin...cuz it didn't have a single move that was close to +20 on block. According to the logic you were following earlier, she won't ever place without one

that's wierd... you quoted me on a post dedicated to shinnok and you then mentioned the nerf I was talking about. Not anything specific to shinnok... uh huh, right, yeah.

About Kitana though... she has a move that if it hits you while your airborne, she gets a free 30% + combo. Has the scariest projectile in the game BY FAR.
She has other strenghts too, but quite frankly I'm not well versed in Kitana so I won't talk much about her.

 

[Madog32]

that's wierd... you quoted me on a post dedicated to shinnok and you then mentioned the nerf I was talking about. Not anything specific to shinnok... uh huh, right, yeah.

About Kitana though... she has a move that if it hits you while your airborne, she gets a free 30% + combo. Has the scariest projectile in the game BY FAR.
She has other strenghts too, but quite frankly I'm not well versed in Kitana so I won't talk much about her.

You're mistaken. I came into a thread about KL to discuss my opinion on the removal of his +20something on block hat spin. My opinion was not specific to just his move, but any move that is that plus on block. If shinnok was mentioned in a KL thread, it wasn't brought up by me. In fact, it sounds like you admit to bringing it up. My opinion is a broad one concerning moves with such advantage on block. But you dont seem to understand that. If it effects the way Shinnok plays, then you should take to his forum and discuss changes he might need. I'll have no part in that. But he certainly doesn't need such advantage on a blocked move...nor did KL

 

[Zephyrus]

I mean with all due respect. I could have like 5% health and 3 bars left in a match. If you're around 50% and I land mimicry, before the patch you would be dead from chip. That isn't really fair

but that's my fault. Many characters, if the opponent is around 50%, have combos that can either kill them or leave them in a state of near death. If you landed mimicry on me that's my fault. You had to land it and then use 3 bars that you had to have saved the entire match. That means you didn't break my combos. How is that not fair?

 

[Zephyrus]

Shinnok's fine...and 95% of other Shinnok mains are okay with it as well.

Because 95% of the other shinnok mains will now move or have moved to boneshaper (funny how that works out. People move to the variations I use since day 1). That variation is still fine. Still great and still very viable. The other two? HAHAHAHA

 

[SplitMushroom]

Because 95% of the other shinnok mains will now move or have moved to boneshaper (funny how that works out. People move to the variations I use since day 1). That variation is still fine. Still great and still very viable. The other two? HAHAHAHA

You do make a good point with the other post. But I defintely wouldn't count Imposter out. The hell spark pressure was not at all what made Imposter so good. It's the damaging vortex that he can put you in. Heck, if anything now the reduced advantage gives us an opportunity to bait armour moves. Once are opponent gets scared we can usually safely rush in anyhow. I hated the patch at first, but after taking him online it isn't too much of a difference.

 

[RelentlessOhio]

That is why you play Buzzsaw ffs.

 

[SidTheHaze]

I didn't say he wasn't. I said this nerf was stupid and it fucking is.

It didn't hurt boneshaper much since it's real problem is still there and it will get nerfed.
It hurts necromancer and impostor... two variations that have never seen a top 8 and will never see one if they don't get decent buffs, unlike the trash they've been getting so far. Impostor hasn't been touched even once. All buffs to it were shared by the other two.

Laughably, the best variation that Shinnok had since day 1, was the one that got great buffs. F+22,1+3 can now be 2in1 and it's fireball is a lot faster and gives you a 50/50 on hit. It losing its mid hitbox is a REALLY good trade for Shinnok mains.

By the way, can you tell me what reason you now have to spend the meter, other than making the opponent fear getting hit with it, thus allowing you to throw unsafe hell sparks?

You spend the bar to be +14 and then make your opponent guess as to whether you'll continue pressure or bait out an ex move.......sorry shinnok's post hell spark gameplan isn't as braindead.....sorry man you get no sympathy for me especially since its in all his variations.

 

[RelentlessOhio]

Pursuing*

And did you even play Injustice? The frame data was salt to the max.

 

[SplitMushroom]

You spend the bar to be +14 and then make your opponent guess as to whether you'll continue pressure or bait out an ex move.......sorry shinnok's post hell spark gameplan isn't as braindead.....sorry man you get no sympathy for me especially since its in all his variations.

.....yo you're an offline player too? That's cool as hell. I was wondering who you were when you made top 8 at WNF but now I get it!

 

[SplitMushroom]

ANYWAY KUNG LAO, yeah the nerf is sick

 

[Madog32]

You spend the bar to be +14 and then make your opponent guess as to whether you'll continue pressure or bait out an ex move.......sorry shinnok's post hell spark gameplan isn't as braindead.....sorry man you get no sympathy for me especially since its in all his variations.

Dont bother man. He's too blinded by salty tears right now to understand anything except the fact that he can't safely continue mix up pressure after spending a bar. Nevermind the fact that the move is still safe (something some characters still don't have the luxury of)

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

And you should "Cy" for more kenshi buffffffffff to win something, May be EVO, who knows.

Smh

You're english skills match your MKx skills

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Takeda can sometimes backdash/armor through the last hit of 112124. The last punch whiffs and creates a gap. Is this known? It seemed like a breathing hitbox thing to me.