General/Other - Tempest What +12 Means to Tempest Lao

[Zephyrus]

Yes, before DJT really started abusing 112124~orbitting hat, he did the above a lot. He was mainly relying on b321~orbitting hat, but what he would do is do a b3 stagger, or b321 without cancelling, and because the opponent is expecting the hat cancel, they don't react on time, and by the time they do, DJT does another b3 and catches them.

Lao is more interesting and less straightforward now.

Lol he's more "interesting". He's nerfed.

He got his damage nerfed and got his pressure nerfed. It's still a viable variation but lost most of what made it really good.

Let me guess, Tanya is now more interesting too? From SSS tier to maybe top 10. Maybe.

Meanwhile Jax gets to still be the stupid character he's always been since day 0. If you're on point, that character is fucking broken. Well... atleast you can't autopilot with him.

I knew NRS wouldn't be able to implement variations decently. Instead of buffing the bad ones, they nerf the good ones.
Gunslinger still trash as it has always been. Hat trick still trash. Dualist still trash. Unbreakable still trash. Fisticuffs became trash. Necromancer still trash, moves still whiff when the opponent is running unlike kenshi's. Goro still trash (I feel sad for his fanbase. Nothing but worthless buffs that don't help him at all. When (if) he finally gets what he needs, those previous buffs will create another Bane). Ancestral still trash. Spectral still trash...

Instead of buffing those ones, they go around nerfing the others that make the characters viable. Simply doesn't make sense and whatever you think of Paulo Garcia, the man simply shouldn't be in charge of balancing the game.

Shinnok got nerfed... Shinnok. A character that NEEDED those 24 frames advantage on ex hell sparks. He still has trouble building meter. That wasn't addressed because NRS likes to homogenize everything in their games. Everyone has the same health regardless of their tools. Everyone builds the same ammount of meter regardless of their tools.

Atleast this time they gave different jump attacks and run speeds to their characters... which hurts them even more because health and meter building isn't different for each character based on their tools.

I sugest you people learn D'vorah. There's your new top 1

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

This thread is heated af lel

 

[BillStickers]

DMS we can down 1 you! Not guaranteed

@Hollywood DMS stick to ya follower game bruh u not cut out 4 dis

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

Boneshaper Shinnok doesnt have problems building meter. Not with buffed dark beam and regular max range Hellsparks.

Nerfed HS just takes away some of his chip damage and makes Imposter worse.

 

[Zephyrus]

another thing that REALLY boggles my mind is how the fuck did you think it wise to give all strings the same frame data in every variation?

 

[Madog32]

A character that NEEDED those 24 frames advantage on ex hell sparks

Nobody needs +24 frames on block, as seems to be supported by NRS's efforts to reduce just about all moves that have such amounts...

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Nobody needs +24 frames on block, as seems to be supported by NRS's efforts to reduce just about all moves that have such amounts...

I agree with NRS' decision to take out all obnoxious blockstrings. I was annoyed when Cassie lost her +2 F34 because D'Vorah had all of her bs, but things seem a lot more fair now.

 

[YoShadowFiend]

And if anyone blocks low against Lao, they're asking for a B2. The removal of pressure only creates more mind games.

I understand your point DMS but how hard is it to notice the string and begin crouching in the middle of the string and not the beginning. the string is like 2 secs long im sure anyone would recognize it and block low after the 3rd or 4th hit.

The string does not force stand if you crouch mid or late in the string. Idk about after getting ex hat but i definitely just made a video about it last night

The first example is me standing the entire time. I cannot backdash or even poke.

The 2nd shows me noticing what string im blocking, I begin blocking high vs Temp Lao because his low game is still pitiful. As the string continues it does not prevent me from crouching and allowing me to have options i didnt have before.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Nobody needs +24 frames on block, as seems to be supported by NRS's efforts to reduce just about all moves that have such amounts...

Shinnok's fine...and 95% of other Shinnok mains are okay with it as well.

 

[Zephyrus]

Nobody needs +24 frames on block, as seems to be supported by NRS's efforts to reduce just about all moves that have such amounts...

You're absolutely right. Let's nerf a character who only got top 8 in a single tournament of the entire game's life so far. Let's nerf his best tool because getting top 8 just once means the character has to be nerfed. I mean... let's ignore the fact that it was *ahem* HIS FUCKING BONESHAPER FIREBALL BUFFS THAT MADE HIM RIDICULOUS,
So, instead of nerfing the frame advantage you get on hit from that fireball that only helps boneshaper, you nerf a move that nerfs the other two variations too. Does that make sense to you or anyone else?

Boneshaper stays pretty much the same.
The other two got nerfed hard.
After a few buffs, necromancer returned to trash tier again. All because of a buff to an entirely different special attack on an entirely different variation. Good balance @colt

 

[DevilMaySpy]

I understand your point DMS but how hard is it to notice the string and begin crouching in the middle of the string and not the beginning. the string is like 2 secs long im sure anyone would recognize it and block low after the 3rd or 4th hit.

The string does not force stand if you crouch mid or late in the string. Idk about after getting ex hat but i definitely just made a video about it last night

[VIDEO]

The first example is me standing the entire time. I cannot backdash or even poke.

The 2nd shows me noticing what string im blocking, I begin blocking high vs Temp Lao because his low game is still pitiful. As the string continues it does not prevent me from crouching and allowing me to have options i didnt have before.

Yep, I edited the OP. If you stand block, you're jailed, but if you low block in the middle towards the end, you're free. So now the mind game is:
F2 if you expect the poke,
Repeat the 112124 string if they stand block again
Or simply do nothing and react to what they do.

 

[Temjiin]

I understand your point DMS but how hard is it to notice the string and begin crouching in the middle of the string and not the beginning. the string is like 2 secs long im sure anyone would recognize it and block low after the 3rd or 4th hit.

The string does not force stand if you crouch mid or late in the string. Idk about after getting ex hat but i definitely just made a video about it last night

The first example is me standing the entire time. I cannot backdash or even poke.

The 2nd shows me noticing what string im blocking, I begin blocking high vs Temp Lao because his low game is still pitiful. As the string continues it does not prevent me from crouching and allowing me to have options i didnt have before.

Your video answered my only question.... you change your block state mid string so you are crouching and can then low poke another 112124. B2 won't happen because it's 18 frames, that's more misinformation.

 

[Madog32]

You're absolutely right. Let's nerf a character who only got top 8 in a single tournament of the entire game's life so far. Let's nerf his best tool because getting top 8 just once means the character has to be nerfed. I mean... let's ignore the fact that it was *ahem* HIS FUCKING BONESHAPER FIREBALL BUFFS THAT MADE HIM RIDICULOUS,
So, instead of nerfing the frame advantage you get on hit from that fireball that only helps boneshaper, you nerf a move that nerfs the other two variations too. Does that make sense to you or anyone else?

Boneshaper stays pretty much the same.
The other two got nerfed hard.
After a few buffs, necromancer returned to trash tier again. All because of a buff to an entirely different special attack on an entirely different variation. Good balance @colt

lol. Yes, reducing a hit to something less than +24 on block makes total sense to me...

 

[Zephyrus]

Yep, I edited the OP. If you stand block, you're jailed, but if you low block, you're free. So now the mind game is:
F2 if you expect the poke,
B2, Hat if they stay crouching,
Repeat the 112124 string if they stand block again
Or simply do nothing and react to what they do.

which begs the questions, "why bother using ex-hat spin?" You're wasting meter on a gamble.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Your video answered my only question.... you change your block state mid string so you are crouching and can then low poke another 112124. B2 won't happen because it's 18 frames, that's more misinformation.

Edit: nvm, hat doesn't come back fast enough.

 

[Big Pampering]

Yep, I edited the OP. If you stand block, you're jailed, but if you low block in the middle towards the end, you're free. So now the mind game is:
F2 if you expect the poke,
B2, Hat if they stay crouching,
Repeat the 112124 string if they stand block again
Or simply do nothing and react to what they do.

Dude... unless they changed the recovery on ex hat respawn this isnt even possible. The hat wont be back fast enough for you to do b2.

 

[Zephyrus]

lol. Yes, reducing a hit to something less than +24 on block makes total sense to me...

uh huh, right, yeah.
It makes sense on boneshaper. On the other two, you have to a real shit eater to believe that. Can you tell me again how many times Impostor Shinnok made top 8? What's that? 0? Oh well now it sure as fuck won't get there. All because NRS believes that homogenizing moves shared by all variations is a good idea.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Dude... unless they changed the recovery on ex hat respawn this isnt even possible. The hat wont be back fast enough for you to do b2.

Yeah, I edited that out. My mistake.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

is that j360?

 

[Zephyrus]

Not if they are intent on crouching and waiting for the Standing 1 to whiff. It's a guess, unless they mash it out, then you just have to wait.

it doesn't matter. You're seeing your opponent pressing a button to continue the pressure. If they don't? Block high.

This hypothetical mind game just won't exist... not in a competitive environment where you place the two players next to each other.
Instead of nerfing Lao's chip damage, they made tempest what it was before any buff to it. Possibly even worse. Buzzsaw is now his best variation again.

I'd really like to see a MK game made by capcom... such a shame.

 

[Big Pampering]

It means that Tempest KL got nerfed causing him to go from losing no match ups to losing no match ups still.

Since when did you become a kung lao expert? Nice to see youre making claims based on nothing.

 

[YoShadowFiend]

Imma be real you guys. Im glad temp got the nerf bat. I was griping the fact that once people saw DJT putting in work, they immediately hopped on that train.

inb4Fking goes back to KJin. tbh i like slayer kjin a little more.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Imma be real you guys. Im glad temp got the nerf bat. I was griping the fact that once people saw DJT putting in work, they immediately hopped on that train.

inb4Fking goes back to KJin. tbh i like slayer kjin a little more.

I admit I hopped on the train after MWC, but I'll still use him because he's fun

. Thanks for your video btw, I put it in the OP as well.

 

[SidTheHaze]

it doesn't matter. You're seeing your opponent pressing a button to continue the pressure. If they don't? Block high.

This hypothetical mind game just won't exist... not in a competitive environment where you place the two players next to each other.
Instead of nerfing Lao's chip damage, they made tempest what it was before any buff to it. Possibly even worse. Buzzsaw is now his best variation again.

I'd really like to see a MK game made by capcom... such a shame.

Why are you complaining about a good move still being a GOOD move? It's super dumb for you to spend a bar to be either +24 on block or launch for a full combo. Like there was never a reason to not spend the bar especially when your shinnok and build meter like candy. So yeah like chill out shinnok is still good.

 

[Madog32]

uh huh, right, yeah.
It makes sense on boneshaper. On the other two, you have to a real shit eater to believe that. Can you tell me again how many times Impostor Shinnok made top 8? What's that? 0? Oh well now it sure as fuck won't get there. All because NRS believes that homogenizing moves shared by all variations is a good idea.

no idea. Probably as many times as an Assassin Kitana made top 8?

So I guess she's also still total trash. What move do you think she needs to have +25 frames of block advantage for in order to fiiiinally be viable?? That's what it takes, right?

I thought this thread was about KL tho...

This thread sounds like a bunch of level headed ppl discussing how well rounded this character still is, peppered with salty tears from a select few who can't adapt.

And I never said homogenizing variations was a good idea. I said removing moves with over 24 frames of block advantage was. If your poor shinnok needs adjustments elsewhere, then that's a different issue that I really want no part of, cuz I couldn't care less. I don't claim to know anything anout him or what he needs, and I've never claimed otherwise