Question Was Cyber Sub Zero really as bad as everyone said?

[NYCj360]

You still not eating carbs bro?

lol whats the matchup supposed to be scoot?

 

[Insuperable]

I didn't make the cut of players, so to me he will never be a tournament-viable lethal killing machine

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

He loses to Ermac IMO. You cannot divekick at all unless you see a projectile. No catching pokes, no closing distance.

5-5

 

[NKZero]

I weigh out the matchup like this:

CSZ uses no meter at all for combos and punishes
Sektor must use meter to maximize most punishes to even equal CSZ damage unless in the corner.
CSZ has the upper hand with meter usage for breakers and dive kick punishes.

CSZ has sektor specific tech that can be utilized off of BNB knockdown and nullifies every good wake up sektor has. Also sektor specific bomb traps
Sektor heavily punishes CSZ wake ups on block.
CSZ favors heavily when getting a knock down in this matchup.

CSZ strings are ok compared to sektors, but have better range.
Sektor can interrupt CSZ attempt to start offense up close.
This is pretty even since sektor must respect the instant dive kick option, his limbs are too short to punish but his b34 gives CSZ problems.

Meter management to negate damage with breakers and knockdowns favoring CSZ are what make this in his favor to me. Their damage out put is equal but CSZ does it for less, and into situations.

I think he can punish dive kick with 1, 2, b+1 every time even if it requires a slight dash in after farther ranging dive kicks on block. Yeah I can imagine b+3, 4 giving problems.

You make a very valid point about the meter especially since meter is hard to build in a MU where both characters have to be very patient. I think the key thing here which I can see swinging the MU in Cyber Sub's favour is the wake-up game. Sektor has very good anti wake-up set-ups of his own in general but his wake-ups are weak and Cyber Sub has an equally powerful oki game, and I can only imagine specific bomb traps are similar to what Cyrax can do to Sektor in the corner haha (it spells doom).

As a Sektor player the only way I feel I can safely launch any sort of offense is to have a homing missile on screen but that of course means burning meter and Cyber Sub Zero can save his as you said already. Thanks for explaining it .

 

[NYCj360]

I think he can punish dive kick with 1, 2, b+1 every time even if it requires a slight dash in after farther ranging dive kicks on block. Yeah I can imagine b+3, 4 giving problems.

You make a very valid point about the meter especially since meter is hard to build in a MU where both characters have to be very patient. I think the key thing here which I can see swinging the MU in Cyber Sub's favour is the wake-up game. Sektor has very good anti wake-up set-ups of his own in general but his wake-ups are weak and Cyber Sub has an equally powerful oki game, and I can only imagine specific bomb traps are similar to what Cyrax can do to Sektor in the corner haha (it spells doom).

As a Sektor player the only way I feel I can safely launch any sort of offense is to have a homing missile on screen but that of course means burning meter and Cyber Sub Zero can save his as you said already. Thanks for explaining it .

No problem man, im glad i could entertain some sort of match up talk

Regarding a perfect dive kick it's very hard to punish, it has to be frame perfect , it can be parried if not done perfectly.

 

[NYCj360]

I didn't make the cut of players, so to me he will never be a tournament-viable lethal killing machine

Everyone is insuperable, you are the cut of players, you are NRS COMMUNITY

 

[Insuperable]

Everyone is insuperable, you are the cut of players, you are NRS COMMUNITY

Thank you so much, man. Those words mean so much to me ;_;

 

[MKF30]

Thought he was one of those underrated characters, out of thousands of matches online I've only bumped into a few C. Subs but the few who used him were pretty damn good with him.

I think he was more unexplored. Like a few other characters low and mid tier

 

[Scoot Magee]

lol whats the matchup supposed to be scoot?

I have no idea lol, I really don't even remember much. I just remember it being insanely hard to get anything going with Scorpion against CSZ. He couldn't use hellfire at all in the match so that pretty much takes away half of what he can do. Now he only has a spear and a dream.

I thought the match was much more manageable with reptile.

 

[NYCj360]

I have no idea lol, I really don't even remember much. I just remember it being insanely hard to get anything going with Scorpion against CSZ. He couldn't use hellfire at all in the match so that pretty much takes away half of what he can do. Now he only has a spear and a dream.

I thought the match was much more manageable with reptile.

I thought it was 6-4 for a while but you can ex spear through some of my strings which makes it tricky. The vortex is mainly the annoying part, and the fact that you can check me with that low starter after a dive kick

 

[Killphil]

Man, all this talk of csub makes me want to fire up mk9 and beat MPT's ass again.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I thought it was 6-4 for a while but you can ex spear through some of my strings which makes it tricky. The vortex is mainly the annoying part, and the fact that you can check me with that low starter after a dive kick

Makes sense. Lol you should have seen me play MK9 a few weeks ago. Shit was bad.

 

[1man3letters]

Cyrax 5-5
Ermac 5-5
Freddy Krueger 5-5
Jade 7-3
Jax 4-6
Johnny Cage 4-6 possible 5-5
Kabal 4-6
Kano 6-4
Kenshi 3-7
Kitana 4-6
Kung Lao 5-5
Liu Kang 5-5
Mileena 5-5
Nightwolf 6-4
Noob Saibot 6-4
Quan Chi 7-3
Raiden 6-4
Rain 5-5
Reptile 6-4
Scorpion 5-5
Sektor 6-4
Shang Tsung 5-5
Sheeva 8-2
Sindel 6-4
Skarlet 5-5
Smoke 6-4
Sonya 4-6
Stryker 5-5
Sub-Zero 4-6

damn, baraka doesnt even get a mu score...thats harsh lol

 

[NYCj360]

damn, baraka doesnt even get a mu score...thats harsh lol

Lol whoops didnt notice, i have baraka as 5-5

 

[ryublaze]

y do u think Skarlet is 5-5?

 

[1man3letters]

Lol whoops didnt notice, i have baraka as 5-5

i'd agree

 

[NYCj360]

y do u think Skarlet is 5-5?

I've been fortunate enough to play quite a few good skarlets. Anything out of slide is punishable when not armored. She can bait them for heavy damage as well, both characters have good meterless punishes and have to guess at all times. Csz is one of the few characters in the game that can slow down the pace of rush down like skarlets or cages. His parry is not the end all be all but it is a huge factor in this matchup, both characters must respect the others options, skarlets offensive vs csz defensive options.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I've been fortunate enough to play quite a few good skarlets. Anything out of slide is punishable when not armored. She can bait them for heavy damage as well, both characters have good meterless punishes and have to guess at all times. Csz is one of the few characters in the game that can slow down the pace of rush down like skarlets or cages. His parry is not the end all be all but it is a huge factor in this matchup, both characters must respect the others options, skarlets offensive vs csz defensive options.

I remember your match against CD's Skarlet last year at operation Wolf. That was a hype match lol. It looked 5-5

 

[NYCj360]

I remember your match against CD's Skarlet last year at operation Wolf. That was a hype match lol. It looked 5-5

Lol yeah that was at the end when i went all csz.i made the mistake of playing revolver with cyrax

 

[RM AtK!]

But smoke wins the ground game and if he touches csz, it is bad news.

well thats the thing though there isnt much ground game cuz cyber uses the dive kick to move anywhere

 

[RM AtK!]

y do u think Skarlet is 5-5?

i think the parry might make it 5-5

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

well thats the thing though there isnt much ground game cuz cyber uses the dive kick to move anywhere

Cant you blow it up with your own tele? I am pretty sure that if he jumps, u can AA him with your tele punch. Also when u close the distance vs csz, smokes pokes way better.

 

[ryublaze]

I've been fortunate enough to play quite a few good skarlets. Anything out of slide is punishable when not armored. She can bait them for heavy damage as well, both characters have good meterless punishes and have to guess at all times. Csz is one of the few characters in the game that can slow down the pace of rush down like skarlets or cages. His parry is not the end all be all but it is a huge factor in this matchup, both characters must respect the others options, skarlets offensive vs csz defensive options.

ok i haven't played against CSZ in a long time (not that it matters cuz i play online) but don't u think that Skarlet's daggers and armor also play a big role in the MU? if she can iaD then I think that limits CSZ mobility and zone him out. obviously she can armor through ice ball too. I think him being able to parry slide depends on which string she uses before slide, because I'm pretty sure she gets a guaranteed slide off of her f2121+2 and d4. Not exactly sure if he can parry slide off of those strings. I think the risk/reward is in Skarlet's favor too, if she reads a parry she gets 50% punish and blockstring/mix-up especially on CSZ's large hitbox.

and not to take anything away from CD SR he's a great player and all but there were a lot of things he could've done with Skarlet that I didn't see him doing. @Eddy Wang

 

[RM AtK!]

Cant you blow it up with your own tele? I am pretty sure that if he jumps, u can AA him with your tele punch. Also when u close the distance vs csz, smokes pokes way better.

well dood yah if he jumps high but i mean they are gonna do instant air dive kicks you know and if u tele on that hes gonna land and block / blow u up for trying that lol

 

[iShinnok03]

- Ice ball had more startup than Sub-Zero, slow as hell.
- Shitty variation of Cyrax's bombs that didn't freeze half of the time for some crap reason.
- Couldn't use 2 bombs in one combo ala Cyrax because of the lack of good enhanced bomb.
- Worst dive kick in the game, couldn't use it as a combo starter, and couldn't use it mid combo because it caused knockdown. Still was punishable.
- Had the only enhanced slide without armor.
- Shitty variation of Cyrax's teleport.
- Attacks lacked range.