Question Was Cyber Sub Zero really as bad as everyone said?

[Jer]

Damn I didn't even make the cut of players played

But yeah I think he's good, and Mileena 5-5 is what I have it as also.

 

[Qwark28]

i played this matchup heavily with Zaf and a few others, we went over option after option and their damage out puts are equally good, this match relies heavily on sustaining a life lead for both characters.

How does CSZ not lose the lead? Bombs after TKP?

 

[NYCj360]

Your full of crap! I main T.Hawk and he's still bottom tier, until Ultra comes out when he will actually be a good character.

And for the record I tried out CsZ and he was OK at best. His normals are pretty slow. He gets poked out of allot of his strings. He has good set-ups but that's about it.

His core strings had gaps only punishable by invincible moves such as JC nut punch. His 21 1+2 string was a great tool and hard to react to when stopped short, his pressure wasn't godlike but it was very good seeing as how you had to respect his throws and dive kicks.

 

[Qwark28]

Can you READ? Try reading the whole replay "GENIUS"!

I figured by saying 15 years people would figure out i meant ST.

Hawk is one of the very rare cases where Bottom Tier Zero to Top Tier Hero happened. Block a j.lp? Good luck next round my man.

Edit: TIL very few on TYM can read.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

He was actually really good :]

 

[NYCj360]

How does CSZ not lose the lead? Bombs after TKP?

but not attacking recklessly, once he had the lead he was able to fight ermac by either closing the distance when being chipped, there is no need to jump in this matchup

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I once had this theory that his normals were kind of ass because he could be used defensively

• parry was a strong option to defend against highs
• dive kick was a strong option to crush lows

But who knows, has it ever happened that a character was secretly good for 3 years and no one knew?

Oni

 

[NYCj360]

@G4S J360 , uhm here comes da fixes IMO:
Cyrax: 6 4 rax
Sonya 7 3 her
Reptile 5 5
smoke 5 5
Liu 6 4 liu
I mean I could add more, but tbh, he was da worse cyborg

sonya is arguable, and Cyrax is great and super dangerous but he has issue with high mobility characters. I can't say i would disagree whole heartedly with the numbers you posted but i've had time to iron those match ups out to get a feel on what they are.

 

[Qwark28]

but not attacking recklessly, once he had the lead he was able to fight ermac by either closing the distance when being chipped, there is no need to jump in this matchup

I used to play CSZ and if I could go back he would either replace subzero or be a secondary, how would you approach ermac's D3, 121? Holding the lifelead while only having the option of being aggressive or risk being chipped or death and letting him build bars while you can't without a risk?

 

[NYCj360]

Damn I didn't even make the cut of players played

But yeah I think he's good, and Mileena 5-5 is what I have it as also.

i literally edited you out without realizing lmao i swear to god.

 

[NYCj360]

I used to play CSZ and if I could go back he would either replace subzero or be a secondary, how would you approach ermac's D3, 121? Holding the lifelead while only having the option of being aggressive or risk being chipped or death and letting him build bars while you can't without a risk?

with your own max distance d3 and standing 33/34 pressure for meter building, standard 21 pressure works well with spacing d3, grabs too

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

sonya is arguable, and Cyrax is great and super dangerous but he has issue with high mobility characters. I can't say i would disagree whole heartedly with the numbers you posted but i've had time to iron those match ups out to get a feel on what they are.

I see I see, but if rax beats lao, it would make sense that he beats csz IMO

 

[NKZero]

@G4S J360 I want to know your take on the Sektor MU. I was thinking Cyber Sub makes things awkward because Sektor cannot zone or get missiles out in general (especially up missile) since Cyber Sub can dive kick on reaction. But all it does is force Sektor to play a more patient footsie-based game and he can still control Cyber Sub's air space with flame burner.

It's a very patient MU on both sides because one blocked dive kick or baited parry and you are eating a big punish. Sektor can't zone, struggles on wake-up, effectively giving Cyber Sub Zero free 50/50's. I think 3, 3, 2 and 3, 4 stuff his wake-ups pretty well. As I already said Sektor cannot zone effectively. I personally lean towards 5-5 but I wanted your input.

 

[Killphil]

Yoooo! Remember that swag unblockable 9% or so that he gets for two bars of meter?

Just EX bomb and then ex freeze when your opponent jumps. Shits broken man.

 

[AK Stormthegates]

I once had this theory that his normals were kind of ass because he could be used defensively

• parry was a strong option to defend against highs
• dive kick was a strong option to crush lows

But who knows, has it ever happened that a character was secretly good for 3 years and no one knew?

Gen in SF4. Then he wins Evo lol.

 

[Jer]

i literally edited you out without realizing lmao i swear to god.

Lmfaooooo. All good dude I'm messing with you.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Scorpion 5-5

You still not eating carbs bro?

 

[Flagg]

Wow nice tier list!

I just feel you to be patient to beat Cyrax. 332 completely blew up wake up ragdoll. The sword catches him and you cancel into slide.

Kitana is easily his hardest match.

 

[scarsunseen]

Kabal Killer?!

 

[RM AtK!]

i played this matchup heavily with Zaf and a few others, we went over option after option and their damage out puts are equally good, this match relies heavily on sustaining a life lead for both characters.

lbsh @zaf is an ermac unplaying extremist... that match cant be even imo ermac beats him for sure.

with all that said i think cyber sub is a homo character design especially that disgusting fatality he has, but overall hes not an aweful char. he's a pretty solid mid tier imo

 

[scarsunseen]

I vote unexplored. He's got some really crazy setups that I hardly see anyone use. Considering Cyrax and CSZ are my two mains, I definitely don't think it's a 5-5 matchup. I feel 6-4 or maybe even 7-3 in Cyrax's favor.

 

[RM AtK!]

I see I see, but if rax beats lao, it would make sense that he beats csz IMO

the cyber sub match is weird malik.. with smoke im talkin about. i think it could possibly be in cybers favor but only slight. he can basically move around pretty freely with the dive kick.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

the cyber sub match is weird malik.. with smoke im talkin about. i think it could possibly be in cybers favor but only slight. he can basically move around pretty freely with the dive kick.

But smoke wins the ground game and if he touches csz, it is bad news.

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

Unexplored. and i think is 5-5 with noob

 

[NYCj360]

@G4S J360 I want to know your take on the Sektor MU. I was thinking Cyber Sub makes things awkward because Sektor cannot zone or get missiles out in general (especially up missile) since Cyber Sub can dive kick on reaction. But all it does is force Sektor to play a more patient footsie-based game and he can still control Cyber Sub's air space with flame burner.

It's a very patient MU on both sides because one blocked dive kick or baited parry and you are eating a big punish. Sektor can't zone, struggles on wake-up, effectively giving Cyber Sub Zero free 50/50's. I think 3, 3, 2 and 3, 4 stuff his wake-ups pretty well. As I already said Sektor cannot zone effectively. I personally lean towards 5-5 but I wanted your input.

I weigh out the matchup like this:

CSZ uses no meter at all for combos and punishes
Sektor must use meter to maximize most punishes to even equal CSZ damage unless in the corner.
CSZ has the upper hand with meter usage for breakers and dive kick punishes.

CSZ has sektor specific tech that can be utilized off of BNB knockdown and nullifies every good wake up sektor has. Also sektor specific bomb traps
Sektor heavily punishes CSZ wake ups on block.
CSZ favors heavily when getting a knock down in this matchup.

CSZ strings are ok compared to sektors, but have better range.
Sektor can interrupt CSZ attempt to start offense up close.
This is pretty even since sektor must respect the instant dive kick option, his limbs are too short to punish but his b34 gives CSZ problems.

Meter management to negate damage with breakers and knockdowns favoring CSZ are what make this in his favor to me. Their damage out put is equal but CSZ does it for less, and into situations.