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VSM KT Smith's Living Injustice Tier Chart

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Well, black adam has really high damage, but a lot of it can be avoided with standblock. He also relies heavily on Dive Kick so characters that can pull him out of the sky (GL, Raven) take that away from him. That's why I feel he isn't well rounded. He's still good though.
Yeah you can avoid his damaging combos with standblock, but his pressure is mad. Every string ends in a frame trap when he has his trait available, when you start getting thrown and D3'd more where you cant poke out, it will become annoying.

He can trade projectiles with his black magic, and still combo off them into EX lightning for a 20% combo, so thats kind of good.

Also the whole cast can punish blocked divekicks, its just an early days thing, he doesnt rely on them to get in but watching streams and people like Awesomeo are getting top 8 by just jumping around divekicking all the time because nobody can punish it...

His EX Divekick is +7 on block too so getting in from full screen takes one good read, but to tell the truth his zoning is pretty good and he has really good dashes so getting in isnt that hard.

I agree with where he is on the Tier side of things, but i think he is one of the most well rounded characters in the game at this point, if he had anything more than he does he would be broken, and if he had anything less i dont feel he could handle certain matchups at all without the specific tools.
 

Soul Bound X

Kombatant
Batman is the best character hands down
lol. a batman must of just completely destroyed you dude. lol did you play me online? :p . batman is really good, really well rounded but i dont think i will ever see him as the best in the game. he isn't cheap enough to be the best
 

SLy

Warrior
I dont know about Killer Frost being that high lol. You pretty much put her in a S Tier position which is not really the case.. But its your opinion none the less..

I would put Bane about the same length as Catwoman.. He's underrated imo. And Joker eh.. Idk whats going on there.. Wouldnt say he's that low Tbh
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
Top 5 for me just throwing it out .... In no order

Green lantern
Aqua man
Batman
Superman

Then about 10 other characters could fit that fifth spot lol
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
batman is overrated, he is top but not guaranteed top 5 like everyone says so. he may have the best pressure/tools to start pressure in the game but this game has a lot of 50/50's and continuous pressure doesnt seem as cheap when somebody can just hit you with a low or overhead which a lot of them are safe.
50/50s in this game aren't continuous pressure options on block, however. They're safe, but your offense ends when they are blocked. Not to mention Batman played very well steamrolls a huge portion of the cast that can't keep up with him. He also has access to gadget interactables.

He's overrated when you don't play a Batman that's exploiting everything about him.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Yeah you can avoid his damaging combos with standblock, but his pressure is mad. Every string ends in a frame trap when he has his trait available, when you start getting thrown and D3'd more where you cant poke out, it will become annoying.

He can trade projectiles with his black magic, and still combo off them into EX lightning for a 20% combo, so thats kind of good.

Also the whole cast can punish blocked divekicks, its just an early days thing, he doesnt rely on them to get in but watching streams and people like Awesomeo are getting top 8 by just jumping around divekicking all the time because nobody can punish it...

His EX Divekick is +7 on block too so getting in from full screen takes one good read, but to tell the truth his zoning is pretty good and he has really good dashes so getting in isnt that hard.

I agree with where he is on the Tier side of things, but i think he is one of the most well rounded characters in the game at this point, if he had anything more than he does he would be broken, and if he had anything less i dont feel he could handle certain matchups at all without the specific tools.
ex divekick is +9 and instant divekicks cant be pnished except by superman
 
50/50s in this game aren't continuous pressure options on block, however. They're safe, but your offense ends when they are blocked. Not to mention Batman played very well steamrolls a huge portion of the cast that can't keep up with him. He also has access to gadget interactables.

He's overrated when you don't play a Batman that's exploiting everything about him.
I was referring to the ''continuous pressure'' batman has. he can use ex batarangs and his bat orbs to start pressure and use one of these options to extend it. But the opponent always has a way to blow you up for it(character specific) and batman doesnt have the best low high mixup in the game. it seems to me batman is going to work overtime when some other character can just do a 50/50 and be safe. thats why I think there are some characters better than him but he is top 7 at least imo, wouldnt be surprised if he turned out to be just outside top 5.
 

Breaker

~AKUMA~
Just what TYM needed now days. A tier list from a long time washed up Smoke player. Here is what I think.

- Ares's reset will be fixed, according to Colt. No point in ranking him that high.

- Black Adam and Deathstroke are on the right side, but perhaps they should be ranked a little higher. Not sure.

- Cyborg's full screen fireball block infinite will get fixed. No point in ranking him that high.

- Killer Frost is the textbook definition of a user-friendly character, but she should not be ranked that high. She has questionable normal attacks.

- Superman should be ranked higher. f+2,3 is the best normal attack in the game. 8F hit-confirmable mid attack with huge range that leads to 50% combos with the use of trait.
m2dave I love you brother, those are some golden rational explaination and well rounded observation of the game. I was going to write a comment almost exactly like that but I don't need to cause you said just perfectly!!
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
50/50s in this game aren't continuous pressure options on block, however. They're safe, but your offense ends when they are blocked. Not to mention Batman played very well steamrolls a huge portion of the cast that can't keep up with him. He also has access to gadget interactables.

He's overrated when you don't play a Batman that's exploiting everything about him.
Batman has pretty sizeable gaps in his strings, a terrible D1, and very poor wake-up attacks. Bats plug the hole in your strings to an extent, but if they spend meter on block and push you back, or hit you at all, the bats are gone.

I don't know why people are complaining about his trait. The Bats are fine.
 

DJ L Toro

Champion
LBSH, here is the real tier list:

1 - 5 = THE ENTIRE FRIKIN CAST!

NO tier list should even be considered before at least 3 months in, and even that should be highly suspect due to the game not being out long enough.
Agreed, My tier list had everyone in S
Juggs closed it after one response though... I guess KT Smith gets special treatment?
 

GGA Wafflez

the kid
i dont understand why people are hyped up about cyborg, i have yet to see him in tournament. is this online hype or am i missing something?
 
Reactions: Cat

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Agreed, My tier list had everyone in S
Juggs closed it after one response though... I guess KT Smith gets special treatment?
It's because KT Smith is actually dead, you have to respect the dead Toro, shame on you.

Seriously though, I don't think this is a tier list thread. Just a chart pointing out which characters are weak to good based on their tools. Tier lists are primarily based on match-ups, which I see no attempt by KT to claim any MU numbers. Also, this is the first time I've seen this thread, lol.
 

DJ L Toro

Champion
It's because KT Smith is actually dead, you have to respect the dead Toro, shame on you.

Seriously though, I don't think this is a tier list thread. Just a chart pointing out which characters are weak to good based on their tools. Tier lists are primarily based on match-ups, which I see no attempt by KT to claim any MU numbers. Also, this is the first time I've seen this thread, lol.
I'll accept the last sentence.
Even so, every character is good right now. He has hawkgirl bottom probably because he hasnt seen her (she's really good). it's that type of thing that my thread was criticising. People are making judgements that other people (especially new people) will believe to be concensus even though they havent even touched or seen half of the cast.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
i dont understand why people are hyped up about cyborg, i have yet to see him in tournament. is this online hype or am i missing something?
I've also been wondering this. I see plenty of people say Cyborg simply isn't that good, but then there's always another random post afterwards saying, "you must not have played a good Cyborg" or "watch when people find out about how broken Cyborg really is". Well really?? Because all I see is a character with a block infinite, but if/when it's a patched out he'll clearly be on the low tier end of the cast. His tools seem much weaker compared to the majority of the cast, his trait is arguably the worst in the game, etc. The roster is pretty damn good, but I can't name 5 people who I'd say Cyborg was hands down better than and why. Where as a guy like Aquaman or Batman it'd be pretty easy to name 5 chars they are better than.

So for those guys who claim Cyborg is so devastating can you please name a reason why he'd be considered top of the cast other than the soon to be patched infinite?
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
"OMG ITS 2 ERLY 4 TIER LISTZ UR TEARING DIS KOMMUNITY APART LOL UR WRONG"

First, it's a chart not a list. The chart gauges the relative strength of the characters tool sets and is not match-up based

Second, NEWS FLASH kids: There is no such thing as a "correct" tier list so GTFO of here with that shit. Things will invariably change throughout the games life and tier placements along with them. Thank fuck someone with some sense like Vulcan Hades is posting. "It's never too early or too late for tiers" is the smartest post in the thread. (love your Yoshi / Christie btw. Mad ups)

Maybe this list will be relevant and close to lists in 6 months, and maybe those 6 month lists will be irrelevant in 8 months. Who the fuck knows.




I never said Superman was a rushdown character. All I said that his f23 is the crux of his gameplay. His zoning/mobility/mix ups are ok but aren't quite as good as those above him. I wouldn't be opposed to moving him to just under Raven and Nightwing but I don't think he's as good as they are.






Please explain how this would change their relative toolsets.






Please brag more about your online prowess.

Joker is easily the worst character in the game and your training-room tech that fills the joker forum has yet to save him. Bad neutral game, Bad trait, Bad footsies, Terrible AA, alright jump attacks. His sweep has great range but, oops, I can punish it on block with lift. GG joker. His only decent combos are non hit-confirmable and on block can be jumped out of ON REACTION to the rolling canister as opposed to the 323 string. The makings of a bottom character.

Teeth resets are a joke of a gimmick unless you have them cornered. Or can combo into a stage interact for the UTKD lmao. If you can do either of those things, admittedly they are strong but Joker has no ability to actively corner anyone. If they block teeth midscreen (for some reason) you do get a free jump in. The only problem is Joker has nothing to pressure or mix up with that lead to anything other than nickel and dime damage.

Don't tell me what I know and don't know. Also, lets see some footage of your ballin' Joker. When were the last KH Injustice casuals?

Maybe you're sick nasty with the Joker. Fine. Wonderful. Great Job. But it doesn't change his complete shit of a tool set.
I'm not saying he is top at all. But a lot of stuff he has is good that ppl don't know about.

You can hit confirm 11 into tank or f23 into tank for a combo. Not just 3. Combos can be ended with 323 which gives hard knockdown and a free jump in that most char can't beat with wake up. Even though some can be baited.
His teeth set ups are not easy to do. You have to have good knowledge of your opponents options. His parry is ass for sure.
He is not a char that can easily win like most easy to pick up chars like GL and aquaman.
But putting him at the bottom when I have yet to see any other decent joker player in the east coast is laughable.

Where you getting all this match up experience for a chart where you know where to place everyone? I only see GL players over there. And please don't tell me it's from online play. Lol.

2 weeks tier chart has to be dumbest thing I have seen.

What's next? Day 1 lobo tier chart placement? Lol

There's no point since we don't have the final build yet. We still have to wait and see what patches will do. What the dlc chars will change and stuff.

This is just a waste of forum space.
 

NY_Jailhouse

Warrior
After playing magnetohalfway's cyborg (he doesn't use the block infinite at all FYI) I can see him easily being top 5. He doesn't even go for his dirty ass oki game much, his runaway is just that effective.
I think he loses to deathstroke though since his projectiles aren't as fast.

And im also switching to him now. Lol
 
I'm not saying he is top at all. But a lot of stuff he has is good that ppl don't know about.

You can hit confirm 11 into tank or f23 into tank for a combo. Not just 3. Combos can be ended with 323 which gives hard knockdown and a free jump in that most char can't beat with wake up. Even though some can be baited.
His teeth set ups are not easy to do. You have to have good knowledge of your opponents options. His parry is ass for sure.
He is not a char that can easily win like most easy to pick up chars like GL and aquaman.
But putting him at the bottom when I have yet to see any other decent joker player in the east coast is laughable.

Where you getting all this match up experience for a chart where you know where to place everyone? I only see GL players over there. And please don't tell me it's from online play. Lol.

2 weeks tier chart has to be dumbest thing I have seen.

What's next? Day 1 lobo tier chart placement? Lol

There's no point since we don't have the final build yet. We still have to wait and see what patches will do. What the dlc chars will change and stuff.

This is just a waste of forum space.
The Joker's teeth set ups are easily avoided at mid screen with a backdash on hard knock downs. To punish the backdash you have to shoot on anticipation. You can also neutral jump to easily avoid them and if the char has air options you again have to do it on anticipation to punish. If they simply block it you had to dash on anticipation to get a corny mix-up that in the best case only leads to more easily avoided teeth set-ups. You could also mix-up between bf3 and sweep from a nice distance, but both are punishable and sweep will only get you more teeth, bf3 leads to nothing. 11 has T-rex arms and the first hit whiff on crouch. f2 isn't fast enough for the range it has. There is so much more: terrible AA, low damage compared to everyone else, slow f3 and b3. He can't handle the rest of this beastly cast with such weak tools.

edit: there is also very little reason to not just jump in on the Joker after he puts teeth down on any set-up
 

RWDY Nori

MK is kinda dope
This is going to be a super valuable thread with lots of constructive, well thought out debates.

I can just tell.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Best post of the entire thread so far. We need a "really fucking like" button

I especially love that people say this guy is low and this char is high w/such conviction, like they are 100% sure. Cause obviously all FG communities are 100% accurate on tier placings after 8 days of release, of course