very strict combos and negative edge

[SoapBar]

Execution barriers are in every fighting game. Some characters will be harder to play, that's just the way it is. The only issue is that many of these higher execution characters pale in comparison to the easier top tier characters even when played optimally. But there are many FGs where there are high execution characters and it is super hype to watch someone put in the work and consistently hit those tight links.

For what it's worth, I agree with you. Varying levels of execution breed excitement and opportunities for all players.

My is issue is that, as you said, there's a disconnect between how hard a character is to play and how viable they are at the highest level. You put in the time and effort with a high-execution character, you should reap the rewards.

But do we see that happening? Or are there a million Bladams and Aquamans running around cleaning up shop?

 

[DeftMonk]

Execution barriers are in every fighting game. Some characters will be harder to play, that's just the way it is. The only issue is that many of these higher execution characters pale in comparison to the easier top tier characters even when played optimally. But there are many FGs where there are high execution characters and it is super hype to watch someone put in the work and consistently hit those tight links.

Ya but as an example that swampy F233 into F23 (forgive me if notation isnt 100%) the difference in wiffing that isnt 20-25% (as with other games going with a tighter link nets you more damage but there is an easier option), its more like 15% to 35% or something and its not amazing looking its just 2 strings and a finisher.

People saying execution is easy are playing the 80% of the cast where it is really simple. Try doing a grodd stampede cancel on a standing 3 on block/hit and compare that to f3 run cancel for a list cage or 112 fireball cancel for liu in mkx. Its like comparing lifting 25 pound dumbell curl (mkx) to lifting 50 lb curl in a building that is being hit by an airstrike (grodd).

Another problem is... as you stated already, most of the chars with extremely unforgiving inputs are also the shit tier chars. If swamp thing managed to get in on deadshot and by some miracle lands a f233 now he has to pray to the gods of 1-2 frame links on shitty internet that he can land a bnb. Even if they made that combo slightly more forgiving, swampy still doesnt have the tools he needs anyway IMO.

 

[G11OST]

https://testyourmight.com/threads/nrs-please-refine-the-input-buffer-window-to-activate-special-moves.62813/


...since the beta

 

[deathstroke187]

https://testyourmight.com/threads/nrs-please-refine-the-input-buffer-window-to-activate-special-moves.62813/


...since the beta

i guess the devs decided to keep it exactly like it was in the beta since all his complaints are still in the game.

plus IJ2 has more input lag than mkxl in facts even more than SFV on ps4 wich is crazy to think off.

huge input lag with 1-3 frame links make a game feel clunky and you could say practice or get gud all you want i didnt see a single player yet that can get those links concistantly.

 

[pfiidud3]

negative edge

ive noticed that this game feel more clunky than mkx for example im holding down for like 2 seconds then do f1 and i have a special coming out,,, and if i input my combo too fast it wont complete the dial combos and cancel to a super.

strict combos

what the point of having super strict timing like the b3 of robin after db2 mb and b3 of wonderwoman after f23
i know its high damaging combos but why so strict when other characters have brain dead combos that do the same damage or more ? should we focus more on the strategy more than the execution ?

I'm also playing with a 144hz monitor so no input lag involved cause this game on a big tv is impossible to play.

sorry for my bad english , im currious of what you guys think.

you can flame me "get gud" or "practice" but thats not the point of course im adapting and trying my best still but its just frustrating to me.

*Edited my release check is set to off

Look into David Sirlin, he is a game designer who agrees very much with this. I think its nice to have variance, for players who like different things. But strict execution, I don't think many people want 'more hard'. I like his yomi fighting card game, and he is currently developing a real fighting game around it.

Meh.... just give that strict execution to maybe 1 s tier character that no one can actually use at s tier skill level because of execution.

 

[pfiidud3]

https://testyourmight.com/threads/unintended-dashes-backdashes.64203/

Thread about dashes, same issue resulting from negative edge except comes out with alternate controls.

To be honest I really don't think combo timing is too big of an issue, precise timings and frames will always have a place in fighting games.

My problem is with the game overriding your inputs and causing a different input to come out. Execution has nothing to do with it, u can verify inputs in practice. This game just buffers the hell out of your moves. The buffer needs to be toned down to at least match past NRS games. Like I said before the shit stupid. If I don't put in the inputs for a move it shouldn't come out, I don't care how u spin it.

Don't do inputs I did not input. That part I agree with.
But buffering is great, especially mid combo (not neutral/crouch), so I don't have to time an input on the single frame that it arbitrarily reads the input durring.

 

[Evil Canadian]

I LIKE GRODD AND SWAMP THING

grodd and swamp thing have the hard things to do

low tier + high execution = bad times!!!!

 

[Evil Canadian]

Swampers though I legit don't know why the links are so strict. Its not like it leads to some revelatory amount of damage. Its high for meterless but certainly isn't the highest.

Stampede cancels, either make grodds shit less minus or ease up how they are used(like accepting a pre-buffered bb or ff or something). Grodd is already ass don't gate the one thing that makes his only worthwhile attack string safe on block behind an ultra finicky and unreliable piece of tech.

 

[Silverfox]

I LIKE GRODD AND SWAMP THING

grodd and swamp thing have the hard things to do

low tier + high execution = bad times!!!!

They were the characters I was most hyped for during pre-release. At the very least, we get to look forward to buffs.

 

[Cashual]

Ya some of the combos are rediculous. Gorilla grodd has several combos that are a giant pain in the ass. Also (for me anyway) landing a f23 after f233 on swampy is a bit too tight imo just to name a few.

Btw love that the first guy to say something along the lines of git gud is using badam. A fuckin monkey can do badams combos.

I hear what you're sayin and agree to a large extent, but online, getting IA dive kick mb, IA dive kick, f121+3 isn't all that easy. Also the trait bnb can at times be a lil tricky to land the full f121+3 ended after j3 dive kick. Certainly not the hardest or anything but he has some execution requirements, there's easier charactets

 

[DeftMonk]

I hear what you're sayin and agree to a large extent, but online, getting IA dive kick mb, IA dive kick, f121+3 isn't all that easy. Also the trait bnb can at times be a lil tricky to land the full f121+3 ended after j3 dive kick. Certainly not the hardest or anything but he has some execution requirements, there's easier charactets

Go to training mode and try to hit 3 then stampede on a blocking AI and cancel the stampede before he hits the dude (grodd). Then come back here and tell me about Black Adam's dive kicks.

 

[Cashual]

Go to training mode and try to hit 3 then stampede on a blocking AI and cancel the stampede before he hits the dude (grodd). Then come back here and tell me about Black Adam's dive kicks.

Lol. No one is saying that's easy. And there are very few unanimous instances of "hardest" execution. There are things many consider difficult that happen to be physically easy for others. IA projectiles are a good example. Some people can chuck perfect IA 'balls but can't run or dash cancel that great.....or are bad at cancelling command grabs from d1 or s1....but are great at elaborate run cancel or fbrc combos.

Doesn't change the fact that consistently hitting the IA kick mb into IA kick full conversion requires precision and can be tricky.

 

[DeftMonk]

Lol. No one is saying that's easy. And there are very few unanimous instances of "hardest" execution. There are things many consider difficult that happen to be physically easy for others. IA projectiles are a good example. Some people can chuck perfect IA 'balls but can't run or dash cancel that great.....or are bad at cancelling command grabs from d1 or s1....but are great at elaborate run cancel or fbrc combos.

Doesn't change the fact that consistently hitting the IA kick mb into IA kick full conversion requires precision and can be tricky.

bro seriously its not like a fbrc. Stop posting and go try that. Then return with "oh. my bad."

 

[Cashual]

bro seriously its not like a fbrc. Stop posting and go try that. Then return with "oh. my bad."

Oh I forgot this was a grodd thread, my bad!

Your reading comprehension is questionable, but the one thing I'm sure about is your drive to argue. No one made this the "what's the undisputed hardest conversion/execution in the game" except you.

I will try that. And I'm sure it'll be difficult.

 

[deathstroke187]

we play at works me and some of my co-workers and we all agreed on this.

some characters like batman,aquaman,superman,atrocitus are all top tiers and have brain dead easy to execute combos that do shit ton of damage when some character like swampthing,grodd have superhard combos for low reward.

NRS really need to adress this.

me and my friends are playing for fur and we all dropped this game for competitions we prefer focusing on mind games and strategie over insanly hard execution with input lag and retarded release check that even turn off does fuck all.

 

[deathstroke187]

ppl problably think im salty or that im trash , but im playing top tier characters that require no execution or barely like superman and atrocitus and i do 40 to 50 % without even thinking about it.

my point is a lot of my friends and coworkers play characters that dont give a lot of reward for insanly hard combos that im sure like 0.01% of NRS staff after 3 years of working on the game can pull off with that 6-7 frame input lag.

i understand the point of putting scalling for the pros to express themself but unlike SFV INJ2 and MKX give you a lot of freedom with combos and tech and Sonicfox doesnt win EVO and Majors because of his execution he wins cause he out plays everyone.

This is a step back from MKX big time there is no reasons why INJ2 is more executions heavy than MKX and imo its even worst than tekken 7 , after few hours in tekken i was able to pull off every hard combos perfectly but not INJ2.

 

[JDF9799]

Execution barriers are in every fighting game. Some characters will be harder to play, that's just the way it is. The only issue is that many of these higher execution characters pale in comparison to the easier top tier characters even when played optimally. But there are many FGs where there are high execution characters and it is super hype to watch someone put in the work and consistently hit those tight links.

Using SonicFox's tier list as an example:
1. Black Adam
2. Aquaman
3. Atrocitus
4. Darkseid
5. Deadshot

Out of his top 5 characters, none of them are very difficult to play.

 

[JDF9799]

How exactly is stricter execution stupid? Execution barriers have been in fighting games since the beginning of time. Some characters have an easier time pulling off combos than others. This has always been the case. There's nothing wrong with making certain combo combinations difficult to pull off.

Execution in fighting games is and always will be a skill. It separates good players from great players in many games.

It does not separate good players from great players. It separates people who have no life from people who have lives.

Being able to do a combo doesn't automatically win you evo. Being good has a lot more to it than being able to do combos.

The problem with the characters with stricter execution in this game is that they aren't very good begin with. Then NRS makes their combos insanely difficult. Why even put the time in to learn the character if they are sub par and it is gonna take forever?

If you look at SonicFox's tier list, all of his top 5 characters have very easy execution. I think that is a problem.

 

[TheIrishFGCguy]

It does not separate good players from great players. It separates people who have no life from people who have lives.

Lol, okay mate. Whatever you say.

The reason people are more skilled than you at an aspect of a video game is because you have a life and they don't. You keep telling yourself that.

 

[JDF9799]

Lol, okay mate. Whatever you say.

The reason people are more skilled than you at an aspect of a video game is because you have a life and they don't. You keep telling yourself that.

Lol, okay mate. The reason pro players are more skilled than me is because they have more experience and are overall just better. It also has to do with the time that they put in.

If you understood what I said (which you clearly didn't), I said nothing about people being better than me having no life. I clearly stated that with how strict some of the execution is in Injustice 2, you have to have no life in order to execute some of the things consistently. Also, being able to do combos has nothing to do with skill. They depend on how much time you practice.

Execution in MKX was difficult (ex. Kitana's ex fan combo, Kung Lao's F2, hat spin, 4, Hunter Predator's 2 bar combo). Execution in Injustice 2 is overall a lot harder. I don't have a problem with strict execution. I do, however, have an issue with insanely strict 2 frame (guess) execution. Gorilla Grodd's cancel, Swamp Things meterless combo, and Wonder Woman's BNB are all harder than the MKX ones I mentioned and they don't even do that much damage.

Lmao. Next time you try to come up with a counter, make sure you have someone spark note it for you so you can understand. Otherwise you just sound stupid.

 

[OFC Salty Santa]

The inputs are SUPER sloppy in this game agreed

 

[deathstroke187]

even in 720p on a ps4 pro on a 144hz monitor doing ivy combos is still super hard for the b2d2 db1mb F3 im not even sure its possible to land this online

but why all the top tiers have brain dead easy combos ? this shit triggers me

 

[Tanno]

This is why I have dropped INJ2 for the time being till they address it seriously. For now I'm playing Tekken 7 and other games. Not gonna play INJ2 anytime soon, unless they do so.

Thanks to the new patch, I'm kind of confused for which patch was it with the input bugs the game has. I played against a dude in INJ2 at Athens, at GameAthlon in Tae Kwon Do stadium. Both dropped the combos because of those fucking things. I had fun playing INJ2, but not going to play competitive with this.

 

[deathstroke187]

This is why I have dropped INJ2 for the time being till they address it seriously. For now I'm playing Tekken 7 and other games. Not gonna play INJ2 anytime soon, unless they do so.

Thanks to the new patch, I'm kind of confused for which patch was it with the input bugs the game has. I played against a dude in INJ2 at Athens, at GameAthlon in Tae Kwon Do stadium. Both dropped the combos because of those fucking things. I had fun playing INJ2, but not going to play competitive with this.

i really understand i also consider tekken 7.

those all have strict af timings for no reasons since they are all mid tiers and low tiers

robin
ivy
grodd
swampthing
wonderwoman
scarecrow

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Crow is almost certainly higher than mid tier IMO.. I cant speak much on the other characters, but what issue(s) do you have with Scarecrow execution? I found him pretty easy. Not saying that to be a smartass and sound superior.. My execution is extremely weak. Only mention it cause maybe I can help you with some of his stuff if you have any interest.

I do agree that some of the execution requirements on lower tier characters are kinda silly, when someone like Black Adam gets 20%+ MORE damage for about a third or less the effort, on top of being a better character in general. Ivy is a character I'd like to tinker with, but just dont have the patience to grind out her stuff then run the risk of not liking her and having countless hours down the drain.

In general, I agree with characters having hard shit and some things in any game having extremely high execution requirements.. but I feel like the things that make up the core of a character shouldnt be so difficult. There should always be things that reward the dedication and/or innate skill of high execution.. I just feel like it should be part of perfecting and taking a character to the next level.. not part of playing them at the base level.