Discussion Variation Tier List 12/06/16

[Geoffmeister]

Tier-List

Spoiler: Variation Tier List

S+ Tier
Demolition, Acidic, Full Auto(-)

S Tier
Piercing, Swarm Queen, Tarkatan, A-List, Ronin, Cutthroat, Shotgun, Shirai Ryu, Vicious, Heavy Weapons, Shaolin, Ruthless, Hellfire(-), Crystalline(-), Nimble(-), Stunt Double(-), Hunter(-), Dragon’s Fire(-), Gunslinger(-), Bone Shaper(-), Hollywood(-)

A+ Tier
Sorcerer(+), Spec Ops(+), Flame Fist(+), Marksman(+), Konjurer(+), Hish-Qu-Ten(+), Covert Ops(+), Deceptive(+), Brawler(+), Spectral(+), Mystic, Grandmaster, Ethereal, Royal Storm, Smoke, Ninjutsu, War God, Impostor, Lasher, Wrestler, Lackey,

A Tier
Kenjutsu(+), Warlock(+), Tempest(+), Killer(+), High Tech(+), Warrior(+), Master of Souls(+), Assassin(+), Special Forces, Aftershock, Outlaw, Thunder God, Summoner, Possessed, Commando, Sun God, Sektor, Blood God, Buzz Saw(-), Bojutsu(-)

B Tier
Pumped Up(+), Cybernetics(+), Hat Trick(+), Relentless(+), Mournful(+), Metallic(+), Balanced(+), Noxious, , Cryomancer, Ravenous, Dragon Fangs, Tigrar Fury, Kobu Jutsu, Cyrax, Bartitsu, Unstoppable, Ancestral, Cyber Sub Zero, Displacer, Drunken Master, Pyromancer, Fisticuffs(-)

C Tier
Butcher(+), Venomous, Dragon Naginata, Unbreakable, Necromancer, Slasher, Brood Mother, Inferno, Kuatan Warrior, Master of Storms, Dualist, Pretty Lady, Dragon Breath

Translation

Spoiler: Thoughts behind the placement

Order of tiers:
Based on MU advantages, offense/defense tools, pressure/stagger potential, risk/reward situations, armored launchers/safety, neutral/mixup situations.
Also what I (personally) think is honest and tournament viable in this fighting game and to which the variations should be condensed to (which is A+ through C). Nothing more than an opinion.

(No variations/characters are in order in any of the tier-lists)

(+) = could be slightly higher (may be taking community feedback into account)
(-) = could be slightly lower (may be taking community feedback into account)

S++
- needs to be significantly downtoned
- deals very well with MU's
- Tournament Viable
S+
- needs to be downtoned
- deals very well with MU's
- Tournament Viable
S
- needs to be slightly downtoned
- deals very well with MU's
- Tournament Viable
A+
- may need general playstyle improvements and/or downtones
- deals well with about 75% of MU's
- Somewhat Tournament Viable
A
- may need general playstyle improvements and/or downtones
- deals well with about 50% of MU's
- Not Tournament Viable
B
- may need general playstyle improvements
- deals bad with MU's
- Not Tournament Viable
C
- may need general playstyle improvements
- deals very bad with MU's
- Not Tournament Viable

Remaining
- not enough source material or experience to judge the variation

tl;dr Character list (only strongest variation applies)

Spoiler: Character Tier List

S+
Alien, Sonya, Jacqui
S
Johnny Cage, Erron Black, Kano, Scorpion, Tremor, Takeda, Reptile, Shinnok, Ferra/Tor, Liu Kang, Predator, Mileena, D'Vorah, Jax, Kung Jin, Cassie Cage
A+
Ermac, Sub Zero, Kotal Kahn, Triborg, Kitana, Quan Chi
A
Kung Lao, Raiden, Kenshi
B
Jason, Bo Rai Cho, Tanya, Goro
C
Nobody

Because a variation counts as one pick in a tournament setting, I don't believe characters should be classed in tier-lists, it makes debating about it almost impossible, though it does well at putting the current state of the game in perspective broadly, in no way is it accurate or detailed enough.

- Edit 12/06/16: changed to original format with S+ and C tier, multiple variations adjusted

 

[Tweedy]

I like the Gunslinger upplay, but not S+ tier, and Demolition isn't S+ tier?

My biggest problem overall, is that there is a C tier and a lot of characters in B tier. I feel like this is just being done so that it looks neat. Is there really that big of a B tier on this game? A C tier? I feel like the B tier is only inhabited by some of the worst variations.

Like there's no way Bojutsu is B tier, like at all. At worst that variation is A tier. Same with Cybernetic and Sektor.

And we really need a good player to play Displacer. It's like the Cutthroat of Raiden. lol

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Here we go!

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Gunslinger S+ tier? Would you explain the reasoning behind that?
And also, please explain how cyrax and sektor are below cyber sub zero?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I like the Gunslinger upplay, but not S+ tier, and Demolition isn't S+ tier?

My biggest problem overall, is that there is a C tier and a lot of characters in B tier. I feel like this is just being done so that it looks neat. Is there really that big of a B tier on this game? A C tier? I feel like the B tier is only inhabited by some of the worst variations.

Like there's no way Bojutsu is B tier, like at all. At worst that variation is A tier. Same with Cybernetic and Sektor.

And we really need a good player to play Displacer. It's like the Cutthroat of Raiden. lol

Doesn't Displacer struggle in the neutral?

 

[ismael4790]

It's curious how gunslinger is up there!

Balanced and Fisticuffs are too high...

 

[KIllaByte]

Only one character should be S+, that's what that designation is traditionally reserved for.
In that case, either only A-list, Swarm Queen, Demolition, or Piercing should be up there.
Wait..... You have A tier as "not tournament viable" and you have Wrestler Jax in that group... if I may meme.... WHATTTT THEEEEE?

 

[Tweedy]

Doesn't Displacer struggle in the neutral?

His neutral isn't the best, for sure. However, I don't see how it's much worse than Kung Jin's. His advancing mid in F2 is pretty slow, same with his D4. He has a really fast punisher, one of the best meterless anti airs with F1.

If you land a F1 and can execute, it'll go for like 34% meterless and 41% for a bar, into almost 3/4th corner carry. Then he can make his 50/50s safe with EX teleport. He also has good armor, pretty good pokes, great mobility.

 

[Invincible Salads]

erron black s+?......wut?

 

[Matix218]

Wheres ninjutsu? I don't see it listed

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Agree with Tanya placing, and D'Vorah as well.

 

[omooba]

really broad list
disagree on gunslinger, he's a+ at best not s

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

tf type of tier list is this ?

 

[Geoffmeister]

I like the Gunslinger upplay, but not S+ tier, and Demolition isn't S+ tier?

My biggest problem overall, is that there is a C tier and a lot of characters in B tier. I feel like this is just being done so that it looks neat. Is there really that big of a B tier on this game? A C tier? I feel like the B tier is only inhabited by some of the worst variations.

Like there's no way Bojutsu is B tier, like at all. At worst that variation is A tier. Same with Cybernetic and Sektor.

And we really need a good player to play Displacer. It's like the Cutthroat of Raiden. lol

You're right about the C-tier, there was no need and I actually included that during the making of the character tier .. No idea why.
I agree on Bojutsu being A tier, oversight on my part.
I should honestly move Displacer to "Remaining" characters.

Thanks!

Gunslinger S+ tier? Would you explain the reasoning behind that?
And also, please explain how cyrax and sektor are below cyber sub zero?

Gunslinger has one of the best neutral, space-control, zoning, mixups and mixup-safety while also access to multiple-hitting strings which are gapless and a command throw.. add to that his unusually high chip damage and great meter synergy. He's a top character in need of normalizations*


CSZ possesses better space control (more accessible mids, an iceball which is faster than SZ's), requires less risk to attempt his playstyle. I believe CSZ is still strong but then again, not as strong as Smoke. Sektor and Cyrax I find very underwhelming since the last patch, but I'm open to better insight.

It's curious how gunslinger is up there!

Balanced and Fisticuffs are too high...

You would still agree Kenjutsu is his top variation, right?
I believe JC is strong in neutral, I don't think I could place Fisticuffs in B-tier, interested in your thoughts, though.

Wheres ninjutsu? I don't see it listed

My bad! Forgot adding him

Only one character should be S+, that's what that designation is traditionally reserved for.
In that case, either only A-list, Swarm Queen, Demolition, or Piercing should be up there.
Wait..... You have A tier as "not tournament viable" and you have Wrestler Jax in that group... if I may meme.... WHATTTT THEEEEE?

I did. My mistake.

 

[ErroneousMac]

I personally think that Konjurer is in S, maybe S+. I don't think many people understand how good he is.

 

[ismael4790]

You would still agree Kenjutsu is his top variation, right?
I believe JC is strong in neutral, I don't think I could place him in B-tier.

I think the choice between Possessed and Kenjutsu depends on the matchup, they are pretty much equal. Maybe Kenjutsu a bit better, but not significantly. Balanced is pure crap.

Fisticuffs neutral is much worse than A-List or Stunt-Double neutral. F3 is wasted in this variation, for example.

 

[Arzumis]

Are the variations in any order on the list?

As a quan chi and cassie player I agree on their placements.
I havent seen enough gunslinger to agree on him on S tier. Good list. I love tier lists and I love to have reasonable conversations about them. Just seems alot of people on tym cant handle them for some reason

 

[Phosferrax]

S+ is reserved for a singular character who breaks the game.

Kabal, MMH.

If there aren't any characters like that then there is no need for that bracket.

 

[Invincible Salads]

still can't get over that EB placing xD


i'm gonna make a list with Jason and goro in S-tier

 

[Tweedy]

S+ is reserved for a singular character who breaks the game.

Kabal, MMH.

If there aren't any characters like that then there is no need for that bracket.

I come from Smite and on there SS is used for super game-breaking characters.

However, whether it's done your way or the way that the Smite boyz do it, does not matter really, I suppose.

 

[Phosferrax]

I come from Smite and on there SS is used for super game-breaking characters.

However, whether it's done your way or the way that the Smite boyz do it, does not matter really, I suppose.

It's just something that has crept into tier lists for no reason. Like saying someone like Gunslinger is S+ when you consider what Kabal was like is a stretch.

 

[Tweedy]

It's just something that has crept into tier lists for no reason. Like saying someone like Gunslinger is S+ when you consider what Kabal was like is a stretch.

Well I mean, if the MK community used S+ for like the super crazy game-breaking characters, then maybe a change is in order.

But from my experience with MOBAs and stuff, SS is where those characters go. It looks better too since S+ is just an extension of S. SS is the god tier, so to speak.

Btw I don't think many agree that Gunslinger is S+, even if we use SS as the Kabal tier.

 

[Geoffmeister]

S+ is reserved for a singular character who breaks the game.

Kabal, MMH.

If there aren't any characters like that then there is no need for that bracket.

A lot of high-level players claim that MKX is far more difficult defensively than how Kabal was in MK9. I agree with that statement. I think what warranted him placing so high in tier-lists is because the gap between Kabal and Not-Kabal was huge. I place mine in what I believe is viable and/or in need of downtones.
With such a huge array of characters (variations) and the recent patch changes I believe we're dealing with way more "broken" offense than ever before, just not to an as serious extent because it's easier (for more characters) to escaping said offense (like using Armor). As well as that developers took notice off this and toned offense down accordingly (unfortunately giving stronger offensive tools to others at the same time). The extreme is weaker, but in larger quantity.

Granted, there is a fine line between what I deem S+ and S, S++ would be what Summoner was pre-kp2 (but that's just my opinion).

 

[Bomborge]

As has been said, no S+ tier is needed.
I will speak on the characters I have experience playing mainly.
Gunslinger: Not even S tier tbh. His neutral and space control is pretty good, but zoning is mediocre especially in comparison to characters like Predator, Quan or Mileena. His mixups are solid though and regarding his chip, I assume you mean SOS3. Which can be armored through before last shot for full combo punish or backdashed. I would put him in A+ tier.
Ronin and SR: I can agree with their placements. They're both really good variations.
Ninjutsu: I'd put him in A tier. While he has great footsies, damage and whiff punishing ability, he can suffer up close as well. He also relies on the most part for his footsies to open you up which can be a struggle at times.
War God and Sun God: I agree with where you put both of them.

Edit: Also off a lot of the characters in A, I would say they're tourney viable. Once you get to B is where I would say they're not solely for the fact that they can run into a lot of bad mus that are difficult to win.

 

[IrishMantis]

I may it agree with things on your list

But I truly respect it you put a lot of work in this man