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Understanding how to fight against NDCs

EGP_Shoryuken

EGP_Shoryuken

Mortal
A F0xy Grampa said:
Its all a matter of reacting to what move he cancels off of, with Liu you can usually do B312 UNLESS Kabal pokes, but thats what you want because Kabal cant really get much off of +1 against most characters and in some cases +3 doesnt mean much too.
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My back 3 is 10 frames, if he pokes me out of an 8 frame standing 2 then whats the point in doing a slower move. The only NDC I can b312 is when he does a f4, the rest I have to down 3 or try and jump out. Some times I try to armor out with Liu's bicycle kick or dragon kick but if kabal d3 then it just makes my specials whiff and they get a free dash. I've noticed that after my d3 hits. then i'm able to reverse the role and use my frame traps to pressure him.
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Shoryuken said:
My back 3 is 10 frames, if he pokes me out of an 8 frame standing 2 then whats the point in doing a slower move. The only NDC I can b312 is when he does a f4, the rest I have to down 3 or try and jump out. Some times I try to armor out with Liu's bicycle kick or dragon kick but if kabal d3 then it just makes my specials whiff and they get a free dash. I've noticed that after my d3 hits. then i'm able to reverse the role and use my frame traps to pressure him.
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Thats exactly what I'm getting at, it doesnt matter if he pokes you. By forcing him to poke you're fucking up alot of his rushdown.

Shang Liu and Cage are probably 3 of the best at preventing Kabal from doing back to back NDC strings, they can full combo a d1 on block, and definitely get a blockstring when they block D3s.

Kabal being + frames doesnt mean that he's at enough advantage to do shit to you.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
A F0xy Grampa said:
I see
Kabal players arent gonna do F32 or B12 NDC into F4, because F4 is where the pressure ends, as well as that 2 1 and 111 shouldnt work so well because you should be ducking his rushdown anyway to fuzzy overhead. His 111 is full combo punishable if he tries to do it while you're ducking.

Its not a matter of perfect execution anyway, you can be holding block and mashing the move that youre trying to get out, it will come out.
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Ok but what kevo does well is doesn't use f4 until he has two bars of meter

He'll then do f4 saw (potential frame trap) f4 overhead (safe for most) or f4 commit to dash then breaker if blocked and build more ridiculous meter w dash shenanigans

It's frustrating reading insinuations from players that I don't know to d3 NDC

I did sometimes but after that what can I do? W Mileena honestly what r my options

Kabal gets life lead on Mileena it's over when playing top kabal
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Pig Of The Hut said:
Ok but what kevo does well is doesn't use f4 until he has two bars of meter

He'll then do f4 saw (potential frame trap) f4 overhead (safe for most) or f4 commit to dash then breaker if blocked and build more ridiculous meter w dash shenanigans

It's frustrating reading insinuations from players that I don't know to d3 NDC

I did sometimes but after that what can I do? W Mileena honestly what r my options

Kabal gets life lead on Mileena it's over when playing top kabal
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Look closer at how Kevo uses F4, you couldve killed him using the same move most of the time he does F4

Since I dont play Mileena I wouldnt know it in depth enough, but my guess is you could play like a typical Mileena and repeat pokes (D3 D3 D3) untill they block or jump, once they start doing either of these you can go on the offense. Basically get the Kabal player to attempt counter poking.
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
A F0xy Grampa said:
Look closer at how Kevo uses F4, you couldve killed him using the same move most of the time he does F4

Since I dont play Mileena I wouldnt know it in depth enough, but my guess is you could play like a typical Mileena and repeat pokes (D3 D3 D3) untill they block or jump, once they start doing either of these you can go on the offense. Basically get the Kabal player to attempt counter poking.
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Can we talk on skype?
 
SZSR

SZSR

Champion
smokey said:
0-1 frame parries do the trick too if were gonna go there!



Its because his 9 frame normals (2 and f4) become 7 frames after cancel advantage from b12 ndc or f32 ndc (+2).

2 frames is relying on perfect ndc execution though, and tbh i recon its alot better in practice, but i know it definitely CAN interupt 9 frame normals like smokes standing 2, its just at optimum execution
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So you're saying Smoke's only option when locked in the block string is to basically mach out D3s and hope for the best?
A F0xy Grampa said:
Moves Kabal has to commit to something on:

F4 NDC (-5) This is a terrible idea for the Kabal player to do because if they cancel and attempt another normal they will get comboed, so here they either have to commit to the dash, or end in a 50/50. Most Kabal players are scared to commit to the dash, but if they do it wont hurt to get hit by it a couple times because he can only get about 25% off of it. Whereas if you block it you get max damage, which is big for characters like Rain, Cyrax, Sektor, Sonya etc.

IF THE KABAL PLAYER DOES F4 OR 21 WITHOUT A 50/50 OR A COMMITTED DASH THEIR PRESSURE GAME IS OVER

So basically just mash out them NDCs

Other things to note:

B1~2 can be armoured out of or teleported out of (Raiden)
111 against crouch block is full combo punished when interupted
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So is Rain guaranteed damage if he reads a f4 and does an EX roundhouse?
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

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Pig Of The Hut said:
Can we talk on skype?
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Maybe later, I gotta go do some shit ina sec

subzerosmokerai said:
So you're saying Smoke's only option when locked in the block string is to basically mach out D3s and hope for the best?

So is Rain guaranteed damage if he reads a f4 and does an EX roundhouse?
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Smoke is fine, his standing 2 is 9 frames and 214 is 0 on block while 21 can be confirmed into SB

F4 can be cancelled into overhead or blade, which is what the Kabal player should do. So you cant interupt the 50/50
 
PND_Mustard

PND_Mustard

"More stealthful than the night"
Elder God
Death said:
Man the NDC arent the problem. Its the iAGB that is.
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i think thats the real point of this thread, whenever i see people complain about how OP kabal is they always mention the NDC's even though there are plenty of ways to beat them, alot of people seem to not realise how bad they can fuck kabal up for most o fhis NDC's.
 
D

Death

Warrior
Mustard-LK4D4 said:
i think thats the real point of this thread, whenever i see people complain about how OP kabal is they always mention the NDC's even though there are plenty of ways to beat them, alot of people seem to not realise how bad they can fuck kabal up for most o fhis NDC's.
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You cant play footsies with Kabal when hes just machine gunning iAGB real low and buzzsaw.
 
Flagg

Flagg

Champion
Buzz saw shouldn't be hitting low imo.

Not sure if that would be nerf enough, or if his iagb's need to be slowed down as well. I remember someone saying once that iagb's should only hit airborne opponents...not sure if that would be too severe a nerf.
 
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