Understanding how to fight against NDCs

[A F0xy Grampa]

Right since you guys still arent getting it I'll explain it to you.

NDC is a move that is supposed to happen when the opponent respects Kabals options to do a low or an overhead at the end of any blockstring.

E.g A Kabal player that does F32 NDC F32 is no different than a Mileena player doing 4 2, 4 2 as blockstrings. Or a Cage player doing 11 11. It happens when you respect that the opponent can extend their blockstring, but they deliberately shorten it so that they can repeat it again.

What to understand

Moves you MUST respect:

- 111 NDC, this leaves Kabal at +8 and grants him either a free F4, throw, F3 or B1, just block or armour
- 2NDC, this leaves Kabal at +9, so its any of the above again

Moves you dont need to respect if you have a 10frame or faster starter (preferably mid hitting but doesnt matter too much):

- F32 NDC & B12 NDC, leaves Kabal at +2 and B1 NDC/11B4NDC/21 NDC leaving him at +1 BUT if you want to interupt him here just mash your fastest launcher, if it is high hitting it will force Kabal to poke or eat a combo. If it is mid hitting he has no choice other than to poke. Once you force him to poke you then have the option to jump over him or block his poke for a counter set up.

Moves Kabal has to commit to something on:

F4 NDC (-5) This is a terrible idea for the Kabal player to do because if they cancel and attempt another normal they will get comboed, so here they either have to commit to the dash, or end in a 50/50. Most Kabal players are scared to commit to the dash, but if they do it wont hurt to get hit by it a couple times because he can only get about 25% off of it. Whereas if you block it you get max damage, which is big for characters like Rain, Cyrax, Sektor, Sonya etc.

IF THE KABAL PLAYER DOES F4 WITHOUT A 50/50 OR A COMMITTED DASH THEIR PRESSURE GAME IS OVER

So basically just mash out them NDCs

Other things to note:

B1~2 can be armoured out of or teleported out of (Raiden)
111 against crouch block is full combo punished when interupted

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Right since you guys still arent getting it I'll explain it to you.

NDC is a move that is supposed to happen when the opponent respects Kabals options to do a low or an overhead at the end of any blockstring.

E.g A Kabal player that does F32 NDC F32 is no different than a Mileena player doing 4 2, 4 2 as blockstrings. Or a Cage player doing 11 11. It happens when you respect that the opponent can extend their blockstring, but they deliberately shorten it so that they can repeat it again.

What to understand

Moves you MUST respect:

- 111 NDC, this leaves Kabal at +8 and grants him either a free F4, throw, F3 or B1, just block or armour
- 2NDC, this leaves Kabal at +10, so its any of the above again

Moves you dont need to respect if you have a 10frame or faster starter (preferably mid hitting but doesnt matter too much):

- F32 NDC & B12 NDC, leaves Kabal at +2 and B1 NDC/11B4NDC leaving him at +1 BUT if you want to interupt him here just mash your fastest launcher, if it is high hitting it will force Kabal to poke or eat a combo. If it is mid hitting he has no choice other than to poke. Once you force him to poke you then have the option to jump over him or block his poke for a counter set up.

Moves Kabal has to commit to something on:

21 NDC (-6) & F4 NDC (-5) Both of these are terrible ideas for the Kabal player to do because if they cancel and attempt another normal they will get comboed, so here they either have to commit to the dash, or end in a 50/50. Most Kabal players are scared to commit to the dash, but if they do it wont hurt to get hit by it a couple times because he can only get about 25% off of it. Whereas if you block it you get max damage, which is big for characters like Rain, Cyrax, Sektor, Sonya etc.

So basically just mash out them NDCs

can cyrax 33 net a NDC out of 32, 3 , b1, b12?

With mileena my option is a 14 frame starter....suicide

Roll gets stuffed by pokes and f4

 

[PND_Mustard]

can cyrax 33 net a NDC out of 32, 3 , b1, b12?

With mileena my option is a 14 frame starter....suicide

Roll gets stuffed by pokes and f4

yeah 33 works fine, but personally id suggest 12, 11 as they're easier to hitconfirm, although 12 and 11 arent mids they still beat it if he decides to press standing buttons after the NDC.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

can cyrax 33 net a NDC out of 32, 3 , b1, b12?

With mileena my option is a 14 frame starter....suicide

Roll gets stuffed by pokes and f4

Yea with the slower characters you'll just have to get him to respect your pokes in the same situations I posted. If the Kabal player is good enough to even know what counter poking is (I've only seen 1) then you can make them block after their own strings.

 

[Temjiin]

So you're "gonna win EVO" by mashing launchers?

This gets better and better.

 

[smokey]

I'll delete this post if im wrong because it will just lead to more confusion, but F3,2 and B1,2 NDC being +2 means that his standing 2 and f4 come out in 7 frames thus making it just a guess whether he will or not beat your fastest launcher out.
Off like everything hes +1 and 0 or - then fair enough, but these strings make it really hard to just "mash" out of his pressure.

Am i right or are my calculations wrong, because i know for a fact that standing 2 after f3,2 NDC will beat out smokes standing 2 (9f) clean

 

[Spletty]

Im picturing this entire post being spoken in an english accent, and it is glorious.

Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Somberness]

2~ndc is +9 (26-17) and 2,1 is +1 (18-17). Add 1 advantage to each for a special cancelled out of nomad dash, like the overhead.

 

[DownfouralitY]

Fuck!

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I'll delete this post if im wrong because it will just lead to more confusion, but F3,2 and B1,2 NDC being +2 means that his standing 2 and f4 come out in 7 frames thus making it just a guess whether he will or not beat your fastest launcher out.
Off like everything hes +1 and 0 or - then fair enough, but these strings make it really hard to just "mash" out of his pressure.

Am i right or are my calculations wrong, because i know for a fact that standing 2 after f3,2 NDC will beat out smokes standing 2 (9f) clean

You're right but as soon as he does either of those move his pressure game is over.

 

[Eh SnOwY]

everytime i get NDC pressured i just uppercut. Works eeeevery time

 

[smokey]

You're right but as soon as he does either of those move his pressure game is over.

Yeah but thinking about that means that you shouldnt try to interrupt him when hes at +2 unless you have a 6 frame normal and frame perfect execution, so the best cause would be to hold block opening him up to start whatever he wants, its a mindfuck.

After F3,2 NDC (+2) dont try mash out, because if he does f4 hes at -5, but surely if he does 2 NDC he is at like +9?

I cant see an ideal scenario where characters with slower than 7frame normals can force their way out of NDC pressure without kabal using one of his -f cancels.

 

[Red Reaper]

Right since you guys still arent getting it I'll explain it to you.

Once I figure all this stuff out I no longer feared Kabal's rush down..

I must say Foxxy... You're one of the most knowledgeable players out there. Not just for this post but for your overall understanding of the game. If I didn't have as good of a training partner as I do I wouldn't have understood as much as I do, this included. There's so many little things out there that even good players don't understand and it amazes me.

can cyrax 33 net a NDC out of 32, 3 , b1, b12?

With mileena my option is a 14 frame starter....suicide

Roll gets stuffed by pokes and f4

Whenever you think they're going to go into a dash you kan d3. If it hits then you end their pressure, if they kommit to the dash then your d3 allows you to duck under it and they dash past you... *Mileena Tech!*

And because you have a low hit box, their rush down options are limited.. =)

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

2~ndc is +9 (26-17) and 2,1 is +1 (18-17). Add 1 advantage to each for a special cancelled out of nomad dash, like the overhead.

I see

Yeah but thinking about that means that you shouldnt try to interrupt him when hes at +2 unless you have a 6 frame normal and frame perfect execution, so the best cause would be to hold block opening him up to start whatever he wants, its a mindfuck.

After F3,2 NDC (+2) dont try mash out, because if he does f4 hes at -5, but surely if he does 2 NDC he is at like +9?

I cant see an ideal scenario where characters with slower than 7frame normals can force their way out of NDC pressure without kabal using one of his -f cancels.

Kabal players arent gonna do F32 or B12 NDC into F4, because F4 is where the pressure ends, as well as that 2 1 and 111 shouldnt work so well because you should be ducking his rushdown anyway to fuzzy overhead. His 111 is full combo punishable if he tries to do it while you're ducking.

Its not a matter of perfect execution anyway, you can be holding block and mashing the move that youre trying to get out, it will come out.

 

[Grolarbears]

This seems like a justified question:

Are you trying to tell me that Noob can just 212 (10 frame starter) out of NDC pressure? LAWL

 

[IDYLEHANDZ]

Thank you for the info!

 

[Tom Brady]

A F0xy Grampa dont forget to mention that B+12 can be interrupted by armor or Raiden's teleport in between hits.

 

[SHARKY]

Right since you guys still arent getting it I'll explain it to you.

NDC is a move that is supposed to happen when the opponent respects Kabals options to do a low or an overhead at the end of any blockstring.

E.g A Kabal player that does F32 NDC F32 is no different than a Mileena player doing 4 2, 4 2 as blockstrings. Or a Cage player doing 11 11. It happens when you respect that the opponent can extend their blockstring, but they deliberately shorten it so that they can repeat it again.

What to understand

Moves you MUST respect:

- 111 NDC, this leaves Kabal at +8 and grants him either a free F4, throw, F3 or B1, just block or armour
- 2NDC, this leaves Kabal at +10, so its any of the above again

Moves you dont need to respect if you have a 10frame or faster starter (preferably mid hitting but doesnt matter too much):

- F32 NDC & B12 NDC, leaves Kabal at +2 and B1 NDC/11B4NDC leaving him at +1 BUT if you want to interupt him here just mash your fastest launcher, if it is high hitting it will force Kabal to poke or eat a combo. If it is mid hitting he has no choice other than to poke. Once you force him to poke you then have the option to jump over him or block his poke for a counter set up.

Moves Kabal has to commit to something on:

21 NDC (-6) & F4 NDC (-5) Both of these are terrible ideas for the Kabal player to do because if they cancel and attempt another normal they will get comboed, so here they either have to commit to the dash, or end in a 50/50. Most Kabal players are scared to commit to the dash, but if they do it wont hurt to get hit by it a couple times because he can only get about 25% off of it. Whereas if you block it you get max damage, which is big for characters like Rain, Cyrax, Sektor, Sonya etc.

IF THE KABAL PLAYER DOES F4 OR 21 WITHOUT A 50/50 OR A COMMITTED DASH THEIR PRESSURE GAME IS OVER

So basically just mash out them NDCs

with this being said u will be forcefully made to 2respect.but yea that might give u some floatys in the deep see of ndc's.very good

 

[EGP_Shoryuken]

I'll delete this post if im wrong because it will just lead to more confusion, but F3,2 and B1,2 NDC being +2 means that his standing 2 and f4 come out in 7 frames thus making it just a guess whether he will or not beat your fastest launcher out.
Off like everything hes +1 and 0 or - then fair enough, but these strings make it really hard to just "mash" out of his pressure.

Am i right or are my calculations wrong, because i know for a fact that standing 2 after f3,2 NDC will beat out smokes standing 2 (9f) clean

Just so you know Liu's standing 213 gets beat out all the time and his 2 is 8 frames. I think it depends on what move kabal decides to do after he cancels. The only thing I really have that guarantees me stopping his pressure is d3, then I just have to guess between a 50/50 whether he's going to follow threw with the string. The fact is most characters just have a fast poke and thats about it, in your case your d3 is also your best bet.

 

[smokey]

A F0xy Grampa dont forget to mention that B+12 can be interrupted by armor or Raiden's teleport in between hits.

0-1 frame parries do the trick too if were gonna go there!

Just so you know Liu's standing 213 gets beat out all the time and his 2 is 8 frames. I think it depends on what move kabal decides to do after he cancels. The only thing I really have that guarantees me stopping his pressure is d3, then I just have to guess between a 50/50 whether he's going to finish the string or follow threw with it. The fact is most characters just have a fast poke and thats about it, in your case your d3 is also your best bet.

Its because his 9 frame normals (2 and f4) become 7 frames after cancel advantage from b12 ndc or f32 ndc (+2).

2 frames is relying on perfect ndc execution though, and tbh i recon its alot better in practice, but i know it definitely CAN interupt 9 frame normals like smokes standing 2, its just at optimum execution

 

[SunnyD]

A F0xy Grampa dont forget to mention that B+12 can be interrupted by armor or Raiden's teleport in between hits.

Cant KL spin that as well?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Just so you know Liu's standing 213 gets beat out all the time and his 2 is 8 frames. I think it depends on what move kabal decides to do after he cancels. The only thing I really have that guarantees me stopping his pressure is d3, then I just have to guess between a 50/50 whether he's going to finish the string or follow threw with it. The fact is most characters just have a fast poke and thats about it, in your case your d3 is also your best bet.

Its all a matter of reacting to what move he cancels off of, with Liu you can usually do B312 UNLESS Kabal pokes, but thats what you want because Kabal cant really get much off of +1 against most characters and in some cases +3 doesnt mean much too.

 

[Prinz]

Just to help better understanding:

Somberness, when Jade for example does d3, does it lower her hurtbox enough to avoid a 7 frame high hit (like Kabal's 2 after a f32-NDC), or even less?

 

[THTB]

So you're "gonna win EVO" by mashing launchers?

This gets better and better.

Wrong. He's winning by abusing knowledge of frame data.

 

[Temjiin]

Wrong. He's winning by abusing knowledge of frame data.

LOL dude I'm trolling him, I made that 'I'm gonna win EVO' thread yesterday from his account when he went to get some food.

I know exactly how good he is, he's 100% my pick for EVO.