UMK3 Tier list discussion

[ded]

btw sindel's scream in mk3 is unblockable ... huhu i mean unpunishable LOL

 

[Shock]

It pushes you back in that right?

 

[ded]

yeah, scream fest in corner = comptetive time infinite! LMAO j/k

 

[abc ur dead0]

This is the only UMK3 Tier list Discussion thread. I was about to make another topic, but we have one already.

Ok My question. What exactly, puts Kano above Reptile. This is bothering me, and I would like to know. I think Reptiles juggles and his combos put him above Kano. Yea, Kano has a Good RH, and Trip, but honestly, IMO, he's not better than reptile as an all around well character. Not to mention Reptile has Male Ninja Properties including the Excellent RH and Uppercut. Kano is... Kano.

A person on XBlive today told me Kano is 1 higher because his combos were much easier to perform instead of Reptiles Juggles, and I hope this isn't true. A Character is a Character and the persons ability to perform certain combos shouldn't much, if any, weight on their Tier list spot.

Someone help me understand please. Thanks.

 

[ded]

sweep, roll/vroll, air throw, easier combos (launcher starting with knee!), adn thats all overall LOL

 

[darxyde]

sweep, roll/vroll, air throw, easier combos (launcher starting with knee!), adn thats all overall LOL

 

[Shock]

And the general player population's inability to do good damage combos with Reptile. Tactics alone cannot beat Kano and even still, Reptile's tactics are not well mastered by the player pool either. When we start seeing more Reptiles coming around and learning how to use him, he'll jump up.

 

[DAVE101]

Kano's attack collision is much better.

 

[Pipa-Boy]

This is the only UMK3 Tier list Discussion thread. I was about to make another topic, but we have one already.

Ok My question. What exactly, puts Kano above Reptile. This is bothering me, and I would like to know. I think Reptiles juggles and his combos put him above Kano. Yea, Kano has a Good RH, and Trip, but honestly, IMO, he's not better than reptile as an all around well character. Not to mention Reptile has Male Ninja Properties including the Excellent RH and Uppercut. Kano is... Kano.

A person on XBlive today told me Kano is 1 higher because his combos were much easier to perform instead of Reptiles Juggles, and I hope this isn't true. A Character is a Character and the persons ability to perform certain combos shouldn't much, if any, weight on their Tier list spot.

Someone help me understand please. Thanks.

BS, ofcourse this means something. Reptile will go past kano only IF more people can play with his combos, so saying this doesnt matter is like saying reptile will never go past him on the list

 

[abc ur dead0]

Why? If there was 1 person in the world for every Character there is in the game and they are all specialists at their character and THATS IT, why would that affect the tier list then. Reptile is better than Kano and should be above him. The amount of people using either character should not have an effect on how the character is. If all of a sudden everyone stopped using Kabal and started using H Smoke, H Smoke is not going to suddenly jump up to spot 1.

 

[MKK hanzo]

BUT the discoveries of different stuff CAN alter the tier lists for any fighting game. This could be seen when Ded_ found the Reptile inf.

 

[abc ur dead0]

BUT the discoveries of different stuff CAN alter the tier lists for any fighting game. This could be seen when Ded_ found the Reptile inf.

This is true. Reptile has an Infinite, it was found and so because of it Reptile, as a CHARACTER, is better now. True, not everyone can do it, hell not many people can, but he is still capable of doing it, and THATS why Player ability Doesn't equal Tier list Spot.

 

[TheRedPsychosis]

Kano's move collision is GREAT. After playing with Kano quite a bit, I learned why he's better than Reptile. Ninja basics and hit proportions are so-so.. but Kano's are amazing. His JK alone makes hell for almost anyone.

 

[Rockzilla220]

Kano's move collision is GREAT. After playing with Kano quite a bit, I learned why he's better than Reptile. Ninja basics and hit proportions are so-so.. but Kano's are amazing. His JK alone makes hell for almost anyone.

Don't remind me oll: I hate playing Kano now. His JK gets through everything. I can't aahp his JK for shit :cry:

 

[DAVE101]

ABC you don't understand. Character's potential can only be measured by the people that play them. What If I said Shang was better than kabal? People play better with kabal, so the "potential" doesn't matter.

 

[abc ur dead0]

ABC you don't understand. Character's potential can only be measured by the people that play them. What If I said Shang was better than kabal? People play better with kabal, so the "potential" doesn't matter.

If you said Shang was Better than Kabal than your just Wrong. You could be the most amazing person with Shang facing the worst Scrub ever, and he's Kabal. You will win. But if he all of a sudden could take.... "Skill pills"(wow....) or if his skill level suddenly skyrocketed you would now lose. Regardless of how many people because GOOD with Shang, Sub, Anyone, Reptile, H Smoke ect would still beat them because of whatever reason makes them good. Kabal is Number 1, Not because many people use him, but because Of his Spin, his excellent Run Jabs, His AFB, and his amazing Properties. Many people use Kabal because he is good, not the other way around.

 

[DAVE101]

...if his skill level suddenly skyrocketed you would now lose...

So now the players skill comes back into play?

---

You are trying to do exactly what kombat_veteran wanted to do. You can't just look at the pure techincal points and ignore real gameplay and tournament results. Kano>Reptile. The ease of combos matters. This is why everyone says "if more people start doing 40%-50% rep combos he would be put over kano." But apparently this is hard. Player skill comes into play. If it didn't, then why can't they just relaunch with kano all day? Since he can do it on all characters, he should be #1.

Player skill matters.

 

[Shock]

The thing to remember is, tier is partly based on efficiency vs effort and not just simple character mechanics. Yes, Reptile moved up merely because of the higher damage combos that a lot of players are showing can be done by people who aren't experts at his tactics, and once it is determined that the casual base can effectively use Reptile on top of that, he might move up another spot or so. The fact that Shang Tsung has a universal infinite means he cannot be placed last, but overall the amount of effort to succeed with him is huge. It's just like Unmasked Sub-zero. I only know a handful of people, out of the hundreds of people I've played on and offline, who can use Sub on an effective level, and even less on a professional level, but I know many, many people, who can use Human Smoke and Kabal on an effective level, and an effective H Smoke or Kabal has an edge even on a professional Unmasked Sub.

 

[Bob Dole]

yes, i have to say, there are less then some you can truly master a un masked sub. which is pure deadly. i know i hated them in the arcade, well there was only one guy who understood him. but, yeah, ums is a defense beast. :shock:

 

[BustaUppa]

Just about everyone has an infinite of some sort. But in many cases this doesn't help their tier listing at all, just because the amount of effort/skill to pull it off is ridiculous.

If the tier list was designed solely with maximum skill in mind, it would basically be defined by the infinites. Top tier would be the midscreen infinite people, or infinintes starting with a knee lift, something like that. You'd sort out the ranks by the difficulty of the setup for the character's infinte(s) and that would be it.

 

[Shock]

You'd still have to mix tactics into it in order to determine who has the best chance of scoring an infinite. For instance, Rain and Noob Saibot in MKT both can score infinites off virtually any hit they connect, sort of like Magneto or Iron Man in MvC2, so this means they are God Tier, however Iron Man aside from his infinites has little play value when compared to Magneto.

Kung Lao's infinites do not compete with Kabal's tactics, because Kabal never has to get close to Kung Lao to beat him. The spin nullifies the teleport, and the dive kick, Kabal's jabbing (with subsequent throw range) mixed with the mere threat of the spin prevents Kung from clean run ins to combo. Even Human Smoke's teleport is not so useful vs Kabal's spin, for instance his manueverability vs many other characters that puts him over virtually everyone is reduced drastically, and also, if Kabal does his air fireball as low as possible near a wall, Smoke's teleport misses and it's a free spin for Kabal.

The reason why someone like Reptile is particularly good vs Kabal is because he doesn't have to leave the ground and there is no temptation to leave the ground as much as there would be for other characters, meaning 90% of spin attempts from Kabal would have to be guesses, ie: blockably unblockable spins due to human error and not because they were counter spins, and because of this, the amount of spin usage overall is reduced drastically, but when used sparsely, they become less predictable bringing the probability of connecting a random psychic spin up. However, the amount of effort Reptile has to put forth is insane. He is complimented by the actual tactics, the wake up slides which do practically no damage and the forceballs for lock down.

There's so much involved with writing up counter guides it's crazy. A character like Nightwolf can counter rush Kabal and if Kabal goes for keep away, Nightwolf must commit to rushing while Kabal is in the air, using the tackle, getting him into the corner for lock down and keeping an eye for the spin, and then of course, CORNER INFINITE. :twisted:

 

[TheRedPsychosis]

Could we move Liu Kang and Sektor above Jade? Or is it because the two rely on projectiles for zoning and lock down and Jade can easily counter it? I also do see alot more competitive Sektor and even Liu players than Jade.. if we go by the explanation of Kano > Reptile.

 

[ded]

jade owns them both

 

[Kaiba]

Why is Classic Sub below Sektor? I though Classic Sub > Sektor in a head to head match?

 

[abc ur dead0]

No way. Maybe in a head to head match, because C Sub can easily Relaunch Sektor, or can Get good Combos off a Blocked Tele-uppercut, but Sektor, Overall, is a better character. Between the Homing missiles, Tele-uppercut, and Run Jabs, Sektor a Slightly better. C Sub is a One trick Pony, You can Mix it up with Sektor.