UMK3: Kabal vs Human Smoke

[starzilla83]

I'm looking for more info on this match-up. Can anyone tell me what the ratio is as well as explain who has the better kit and why?

 

[Revy]

I’ll tag the experts for you.

@MRIGOTBASS @Juggs

 

[Juggs]

I'm looking for more info on this match-up. Can anyone tell me what the ratio is as well as explain who has the better kit and why?

It’s probably 5-5, one of the few MU’s Kabal doesn’t outright win. Kabal has the better kit, and the most winning MU’s in the game. But Human Smoke isn’t too far behind him. Some even claim HSmoke is better than Kabal, but that’s typically from Kabal apologists and HSmoke haters, lol.

But this MU is super boring as it’s one of THE most played in tournaments.

 

[ded]

i'd say 6:4 if the players are same level, but 5:5 is acceptable as well.

as close as hsmoke can be to kabal, i'd never say he is better than him tho

 

[MRIGOTBASS]

I’ll tag the experts for you.

@MRIGOTBASS @Juggs

Not an expert, but Kabal is better especially with most online players using macro’d fireball spamming and modified keyboards / hitboxes . I reccomend skipping umk3 totally and playing a newer game that more than 8 toxic people still play.

Its also not about the character, like @MKK hanzo is supposed to be the best in the world, using 3rd top tier character still loses to Sheeva who is supposed to be the worst character. It just shows you that when a skill gap of this nature exists, the last tier character can decimate the best. Its a Sheeva Clinic.

The game is old and boring, and just meh af.

 

[Juggs]

I reccomend skipping umk3 totally and playing a newer game that more than 8 toxic people still play.
The game is old and boring, and just meh af.

Agreed. At this point there isn’t too much upside. Unless there’s some kind of resurgence, it really isn’t worth it to be perfectly honest.

i'd say 6:4 if the players are same level, but 5:5 is acceptable as well.

as close as hsmoke can be to kabal, i'd never say he is better than him tho

I can agree with this as well. All I know is that it definitely does not favor HSmoke at all. At best for him it’s “even”, but that’s still probably a stretch. I think a more accurate number would be 5.5-4.5 in Kabal’s favor, but I don’t like doing the decimal shit for MU numbers. So yeah, I can agree with with 6-4 or 5-5. I don’t think it’s entirely important however, but that’s how I feel about MU numbers and tier lists in general. I won’t get into why I think people super overvalue MU #’s and tier lists and explain how subjective they are, because that’s an entirely different discussion really.

 

[Biggs]

I rarely get on TYM so I didn't see this. HSmoke has more tools, but it is very difficult to get in on IAGB spam. It's definitely doable on HSmoke's part but you have to work harder.

 

[Juggs]

I rarely get on TYM so I didn't see this. HSmoke has more tools, but it is very difficult to get in on IAGB spam. It's definitely doable on HSmoke's part but you have to work harder.

HSmoke has more tools than Kabal? How so?

 

[Biggs]

HSmoke has more tools than Kabal? How so?

HSmoke has:

• Better Normals aside from LP/HP (Specifically LK and HK because those moves disable Kabals spin even on whiff)
• Faster Walk Speed
• Teleport
• Air Throw
• Sweep, HK, LK Punish
• Very Flexibly Corner Traps with Spear
• More Damage
• Can relaunch Kabal, but Kabal cannot relaunch Male Ninjas

Kabal has:

• LP/HP Jabs (Best LP Jab, 2nd Best HP Jab in game)
• Spin (Best Anti Crossup in game)
• IAGB (Invalidates around half of the cast)
• clHPHPdHP (Which is most likely the best string in the game)
• Better Throw

HSmoke generally has a greater amount of tools, but that doesn't mean his tools are better than Kabal's.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I know Smoke's tele invalidates most of the pressure in the game, this is the reason why him and ermac are also picked up a lot, but doesn't kabal ca reverse spin in some of these situations as well?

Ppl in general love smoke, but i just find ermac to be equally if not more so annoying at the right hands.

 

[Metin]

Ppl in general love smoke, but i just find ermac to be equally if not more so annoying at the right hands.

Yeah, as one of those right hands i am gonna say this is not true.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Yeah, as one of those right hands i am gonna say this is not true.

is smoke really that problematic huh!

 

[Juggs]

is smoke really that problematic huh!

Nah, you’re right, Ermac can be just as good and difficult to play against. Human Smoke is honestly just slightly better, and that’s pretty much just due to HSmoke’s airthrow and walk speed.

 

[Juggs]

HSmoke has:

• Better Normals aside from LP/HP (Specifically LK and HK because those moves disable Kabals spin even on whiff)
• Faster Walk Speed
• Teleport
• Air Throw
• Sweep, HK, LK Punish
• Very Flexibly Corner Traps with Spear
• More Damage
• Can relaunch Kabal, but Kabal cannot relaunch Male Ninjas

Kabal has:

• LP/HP Jabs (Best LP Jab, 2nd Best HP Jab in game)
• Spin (Best Anti Crossup in game)
• IAGB (Invalidates around half of the cast)
• clHPHPdHP (Which is most likely the best string in the game)
• Better Throw

HSmoke generally has a greater amount of tools, but that doesn't mean his tools are better than Kabal's.

I had also listed their tools and what not, but forgot to post it.

Kabal:
-Ground FB
-Air FB
-iaFB
-Kabal’s Spin (arguably the best special in the game). Super versatile, prevents opponent from ever being able to jump or do a crossup jump attack (unless it’s a safe jump, which is extremely difficult to do against Kabal and almost never even really worth it)
-Can punish A LOT of stuff in the game, more than any other character
-Great RJ’s and/or his jabs in general that for some reason have high priority
-Decent walk speed
-Decent Damage grounded
-Great anti-air (AA) Damage
-Pop-up combo starter (can relaunch certain characters)


HSmoke:
-Fastest walking speed
-One of the highest damaging BnB’s in the game (overall gets great damage both grounded and AA damage)
-Pop-up combo starter (also can relaunch certain characters)
-Air throw
-Spear (which is really only good for combo extensions. But It can be used in neutral in very specific situations, and/or you can also punish certain stuff with it like reaction spear to a blocked sweep or to whiff punish certain moves. But that requires very strict timing)
-Teleport
-Has decent, Male Ninja jabs and normals

Probably forgetting stuff but that’s the gist I’d say. Definitely don’t think HSmoke has more tools than Kabal, but it’s close.

 

[Metin]

is smoke really that problematic huh!

Yeah, he is problematic, it is mainly because of his walk speed as juggs said. Ermac has some cool combos but his projectile is average, Smoke has free hit spear also air throw. Combos doesn't make that much difference between these two but i can say that Smoke combos are easier to get.

 

[Biggs]

I know Smoke's tele invalidates most of the pressure in the game, this is the reason why him and ermac are also picked up a lot, but doesn't kabal ca reverse spin in some of these situations as well?

Ppl in general love smoke, but i just find ermac to be equally if not more so annoying at the right hands.

Smoke can always block the reverse spin.

 

[RollTide8569]

In 2v2's on Rev 1.2, being locked to Robo Smoke for a round or 2 could be considered a weakness of playing Human Smoke but only for that mode. But that mode is pretty common in ranked on Fightcade.

 

[Lex]

Not an expert, but Kabal is better especially with most online players using macro’d fireball spamming and modified keyboards / hitboxes . I reccomend skipping umk3 totally and playing a newer game that more than 8 toxic people still play.

Its also not about the character, like @MKK hanzo is supposed to be the best in the world, using 3rd top tier character still loses to Sheeva who is supposed to be the worst character. It just shows you that when a skill gap of this nature exists, the last tier character can decimate the best. Its a Sheeva Clinic.

The game is old and boring, and just meh af.

Garbage.

This man(?) clearly is not an expert because he can only pick one character in an old a game he thinks is "old and boring, and just meh af". A wise man wouldn't take him seriously.

Garbage - YouTube
Your Online "Sheeva Clinic" is a Trash Heap and so are you. Now take a hint and shut the fuck up.

@RollTide8569 you can just ask the Discord these questions and get an actual answer.

If people want to play you can get ahold of me on FC2: "lexwavenet" Ill be there playing mostly friends while blocking this garbage humans' 50 desperate, attention seeking accounts.

 

[Revy]

Garbage.

This man(?) clearly is not an expert because he can only pick one character in an old a game he thinks is "old and boring, and just meh af". A wise man wouldn't take him seriously.

Garbage - YouTube
Your Online "Sheeva Clinic" is a Trash Heap and so are you. Now take a hint and shut the fuck up.

@RollTide8569 you can just ask the Discord these questions and get an actual answer.

If people want to play you can get ahold of me on FC2: "lexwavenet" Ill be there playing mostly friends while blocking this garbage humans' 50 desperate, attention seeking accounts.

Oh damn! Some actual real beef, love to see it in the current soft era of MK where the word is only used to promote streams.

I called @MRIGOTBASS an expert because he’s has a reputation of being good at UMK3 from players who I know were good at the game while still being active on TYM.

 

[Lex]

@Revy you didn't do anything wrong and its not a "beef" - I'm just channeling the community here. Thank me later.

 

[MKK hanzo]

Not an expert, but Kabal is better especially with most online players using macro’d fireball spamming and modified keyboards / hitboxes . I reccomend skipping umk3 totally and playing a newer game that more than 8 toxic people still play.

Its also not about the character, like @MKK hanzo is supposed to be the best in the world, using 3rd top tier character still loses to Sheeva who is supposed to be the worst character. It just shows you that when a skill gap of this nature exists, the last tier character can decimate the best. Its a Sheeva Clinic.

The game is old and boring, and just meh af.

Im the best in the world? Thanks! Always knew you were my biggest fan!

 

[MRIGOTBASS]

Garbage.

This man(?) clearly is not an expert because he can only pick one character in an old a game he thinks is "old and boring, and just meh af". A wise man wouldn't take him seriously.

Garbage - YouTube
Your Online "Sheeva Clinic" is a Trash Heap and so are you. Now take a hint and shut the fuck up.

@RollTide8569 you can just ask the Discord these questions and get an actual answer.

If people want to play you can get ahold of me on FC2: "lexwavenet" Ill be there playing mostly friends while blocking this garbage humans' 50 desperate, attention seeking accounts.

Alex,

Its been almost 2 decades now you have blessed this site with your rants, your excuses, entitlement expectations because you were a tester for UMK3 and some OG that could easily destroy all the current players. Total Toxic behavior and did nothing at all to advance the game, or the community and always made excuses when anyone wanted to play you why you would not play anyone.

Alex finally agreed to a FT5 Grand Casuals 2022 set this weekend. Alex lost 5-4, with multiple Babalities. Rather than saying GG's and playing again or just having fun, Alex decided to come to TYM in order to "Rally the Community" around him. He posted a video entitled Garbage depicting an edited version of the FT5 set. This edited version ended when Alex was ahead 3-1, Alex ultimately lost the set 5-4 but decided for whatever reason to edit the video and present it as if he won, then berate me as a Garbage human being ect, based on a fake video. Fightcade archives all of the matches so I am not sure why he would do this. I am including the link to the Youtube video as well as the link to the fightcade replay itself.

Full Set

https://replay.fightcade.com/fbneo/umk3/1653704696954-9998

@Lex I am not mad at you for being dishonest, and I extend an olive branch if you want to learn how to play umk3 in a more modern enviroment, I am willing to teach you how to win. Yesterdays price is not todays price, and your tech is beyond outdated 15 years ago. GG's Bud

 

[Lex]

 

[Juggs]

Beef aside, I still haven’t downloaded fightcade. Mainly because I haven’t really played UMK3 in literally years. I have come to absolutely hate online UMK3. Anyway, is fightcade good enough for me to actually get back into the game? Like, the main reason I stopped playing online UMK3 is just how bad the delay is, so, is it at least better on fightcade? @Lex @MRIGOTBASS

 

[nwo]

@Juggs Fightcade sucks, unless you want to play vs 90% foreign players. I offered to play vs @Lex on MAME since I happen to have a Las Vegas kaillera server and his friend Thrower told me he lived in Vegas, and @Lex laughed in my face.

Almost all top USA players play on MAME, other than DetroitBalln and a few others. Same with Russian players, almost all on MAME.

For super long distance matches Fightcade is better, but super long distance matches suck period.