Turning Liu Kangs F43xx Tools Against Him (Short Guide)

[GLoRToR]

he can keep his F4 9f. it's the hitbox that is absolutely braindead dumb. i mean this is batman J2 level BS. So i guess they will never fix it.

Erron has this omnipotent hitbox bullshit too while my baby gets lowprofiled and jumped on both (at the same time XD) if you try to b3 and even get flawless blocked to fuck

 

[GLoRToR]

Dude it's not the frames on it that are the problem for people and people just f4 all day are easy to beat.

Here's a new concept for you. Different characters have different issues vs broken shit because they, themselves work differently.

 

[lordlosh]

He obviously is imba, but what really makes him broken is not his perfect pressure game, and that he can steal you 23728382372737 turns, but how this character is make, to have a easy day at the office. Let me explain what i mean:
He have the best FB in the game, hands down. Has good range, its very fast, his FB have hitbox issue and can hit you even from behind. It has the best damage scaling, the moment you are bringing his health down to 30% is the moment you die. Its easy 40%+ damage, cause he just need 1 hit confirm and he will FB and you lose the round, he can land his FB late on the combo, and because of almost non damage scaling he can drain you for 55%+.
And what the funny part is, smart Liu Kang player condition themself to his KB and in the decisive game, they are going to drain your health pretty fast, pretty easy.
They most likely will have 2,3 or 4 KB, that are ready to go, because the condition for them is super easy. They will have KB ready on his Bicycle Kick(you cant brakeaway), he will have his KB ready on a throw, and if thats not enough he have easy to get KB on his High Kick on his F4 combo, also on his Flying Dragon Kick, that is a completely broken move, if you take into the consideration he also have the best zoning for mixed character. No need to mention he have KB ready to go on his parry move as well.

Rewind is a great player, but untill he switched to Liu Kang in MK11 his result suck**** hard. He switched to Liu and results start to coming.

People were complaining about Cassie, but she doesnt have a f**** whole screen anti air, anti zoning tool, she doesnt have imba FB, she doesn`t have such high damage potential, and she had like 1 or 2 useful KB, that was not big damage, and you could not combo on them. Also her so call annoying "low" shot was actually mid, and you can block it by standing.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Here's a new concept for you. Different characters have different issues vs broken shit because they, themselves work differently.

Well him having a 9f mid on F4 is far from broke. Just because you play with a character that has slower moves doesn't mean others characters should be brought down to her level of speed. It already has limited range and is -7 on block and all options after is punishable and risky to do considering he gets 20% off it without KB while you get 30%+ by making the read between them and in many cases on reaction (like demonstrated in clips above).

He is top tier but doesn't need his F4 nerves if anything his hurtbox needs adjustment. Several characters fail to punish him after making the read because he leans back after throws and kicks during animation.

I seriously encourage anyone who thinks "Insert Top Tier Character" is broken and brain dead to main the character for 2-3 weeks straight at least getting MU experience vs 20+ characters and see how truly free the character is. I'm betting they find they are wrong.
I thought this about several characters until I took this challenge and started to find weaknesses and counters or holes in their gameplan. I'm glad I did. Not only did it improve my understanding of the cast, my characters MU's but it improved my playstyle and approach of several characters.

 

[SwiftEagle]

He literally has everything. Great staggers, great mids, great zoning, great FB, great damage, 2 throw KBs, full screen punish with dragon kick, a parry that can FULL COMBO into 500 damage. And his weakness is what exactly?

He and Geras are simply overpowered. It's an indisputable fact at this point.

 

[GLoRToR]

Well him having a 9f mid on F4 is far from broke. Just because you play with a character that has slower moves doesn't mean others characters should be brought down to her level of speed. It already has limited range and is -7 on block and all options after is punishable and risky to do considering he gets 20% off it without KB while you get 30%+ by making the read between them and in many cases on reaction (like demonstrated in clips above).

He is top tier but doesn't need his F4 nerves if anything his hurtbox needs adjustment. Several characters fail to punish him after making the read because he leans back after throws and kicks during animation.

I seriously encourage anyone who thinks "Insert Top Tier Character" is broken and brain dead to main the character for 2-3 weeks straight at least getting MU experience vs 20+ characters and see how truly free the character is. I'm betting they find they are wrong.
I thought this about several characters until I took this challenge and started to find weaknesses and counters or holes in their gameplan. I'm glad I did. Not only did it improve my understanding of the cast, my characters MU's but it improved my playstyle and approach of several characters.

While I don't grind matchups, I spend time in the lab running scenarios and I can tell you that there are a few omnipotent moves that need to be brought to level with the rest of the cast because they veritably dominate the remainder of the cast.
Liu's F4 is one of those offenders: it hits first in scenarios it has no business landing a hit, and as you said adjusting its hurt- AND hitbox is one thing it needs changed.
At the same time, 9f is poke speed and a move that leads to so many options, all of which cash out in considerable damage (even if he just lands fireball he'll do a chunk of damage, don't have my numbers and can't check right now how much) just needs looked at because it's too powerful in comparison.

Far from me to hate on your character or to want him destroyed. I advocate game balance over anything else and Liu has so much going for him that F4 getting its hit- and hurt-regions adjusted and getting down to 11f down from 9f won't ruin him at all, just make him fair so that he doesn't just automatically win scenarios he has no business winning and will have to actually play fundamentals against a vast majority of the cast rather than just "when in doubt, F4".

Like I said, he's not the only one with omnipotent advancing mids that lead to gigantic damage and F4 isn't as far reaching as some other offenders.
Still, I feel the game would be better for it.

 

[lordlosh]

What range exactly you want his F4 to have? His range is better than Sub Zero B3, and in the same its a lot faster. Sub Zero its 13frame. His range is more than perfect. And -7 on block means he can eat only a D1 at best.
In the same time he have better range on his 1,2, better range at his D1, D3, B4 and better range at his JK.

All of his string are safe if you know how to play him.

I still dont get how they create this character. Firstable its super easy, his combos are brain death easy, and he is stupid strong at all levels of play.
Usually when they make noob friendly character that have easy moves, he is strong on low to mid level gameplay, but its not good at high to pro level gameplay.
Right now he is stupid on all level gameplay.
Scorpion its the best example of that. Good at all level of gameplay, but really shine on low to mid level.

Unless you totally outplay the character(which will mean you are smarter or better than the player that use him), he is set to beat you even if you a little bit better than him.
Everything is set for him to steal rounds. FB, his 32837273273 easy KB, that is just set for the decider. Good Liu Kang player have 2 to 3 ready KB to go in the the decisive round. And if he takes the first round without using FB, it`s a free win for him.

 

[MadPropz101]

Strings that start with a 9f mid should not exist, let alone be safe, or a mixup between plus frames and a combo...

 

[QueenOmega]

Nah, fuck Liu, he's potato as fuck.
Ofc you can build your offense around just F4. No it is not reactable.
While he just F4 and throw?
F43 throw?
F4 into F4 into whatever?
Let the whole string run?
End it with low fireball? Will he enhance the fireball?
I mean, come on. You have to read it. I can consistenly flawless block the last part of the string, and if you are really strict with the timing you can manage the letting the whole string or low fireball situation, but then he just starts staggering it, while Liu does all that fucking annoying Bruce Lee type retarded Little shouts.
I wanna kill that little motherfucker everytime I fight him to be honest.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

At the same time, 9f is poke speed and a move that leads to so many options, all of which cash out in considerable damage (

I wouldn't say9f is poke speed but some unfortunate characters have that slow of pokes. Eek

He has plenty of options off it but the majority are reactable for full punish and I've shown that in videos. The rest have counters on reads like every character.

Far from me to hate on your character or to want him destroyed. I advocate game balance over anything else and Liu has so much going for him that F4 getting its hit- and hurt-regions adjusted and getting down to 11f down from 9f won't ruin him at all,

I agree he has plenty of tools like many characters. But its up for debate that F4 even needs a nerf. I agree his hurtbox needs adjustment but I don't think his F4 is broke by any means. It has decent range but isn't really a footsie tool and can be wiff punished fairly easily, that's one of his main weaknesses. F4 is far from his best move and the character is not successful without using all if his tools (at a high level)

just make him fair so that he doesn't just automatically win scenarios he has no business winning and will have to actually play fundamentals against a vast majority of the cast rather than just "when in doubt, F4".

Umm what? He can only spam the move if the opponent is not playing the matchup correctly. Like I said almost every option off F4 is punishable on reaction. The main problem I see with the community is they don't actually grind matchups and lab all their options. Reaction time drills are a must to deal with characters like LK.
Its mostly in your favor if he cancels anything off F43 since he gets sub 20 for connecting F4 without KB and you get 30%+ and many of the options are very punishable and beyond reactable including
F43xxFireball
F4-stagger-Throw
F43xxAmp-LowFireball
F43xxParry

All of those are very reactable but yes he has more options like:
F4/F43
F4xxBlock
F43xxBlock/Flykick/Bicycle Kick

All of these are punishable on read and it should be in your favor.

He is getting sub 20% without KB and 35% with KB(once per match) off his F4.
Think of characters with just as many options that aren't reactable like Jacqui's F3/F31/F3141+3 or Jax's F3/f33/F331+3 and all the options available off them that require hard reads. All of them are 9f and have the same if not more range if not the sane or better hitboxes.
How about Cassie's F4 or (insert top tier character).

These misconceptions surrounding characters are easily mitigated by becoming familiar with the character in question. Like I said before Main Liu Kang for at least 3 weeks and I'm betting he isn't as free or brain dead as you think.
This is from someone who started with Kotal, Jade, Scarlet, Kitana, Kano, Frost, Raiden and moved onto Cassie, Sonya, Jax, D'Vorah, Noob, Sub, Scorpion and nearly everyone and recently used Shang and Nightwolf. Just started my 3weeks with Liu Kang and I'm 1-1/2 weeks in to using both variations and I can tell you he isn't as free as I thought. I was also under the impression that he was a single button character but after labbing and meaning him to get a better feel of how the character functions at a higher level I've realized he is anything but. In fact some of his corner combos are 2f links.

 

[GLoRToR]

I wouldn't say9f is poke speed but some unfortunate characters have that slow of pokes. Eek

He has plenty of options off it but the majority are reactable for full punish and I've shown that in videos. The rest have counters on reads like every character.


I agree he has plenty of tools like many characters. But its up for debate that F4 even needs a nerf. I agree his hurtbox needs adjustment but I don't think his F4 is broke by any means. It has decent range but isn't really a footsie tool and can be wiff punished fairly easily, that's one of his main weaknesses. F4 is far from his best move and the character is not successful without using all if his tools (at a high level)


Umm what? He can only spam the move if the opponent is not playing the matchup correctly. Like I said almost every option off F4 is punishable on reaction. The main problem I see with the community is they don't actually grind matchups and lab all their options. Reaction time drills are a must to deal with characters like LK.
Its mostly in your favor if he cancels anything off F43 since he gets sub 20 for connecting F4 without KB and you get 30%+ and many of the options are very punishable and beyond reactable including
F43xxFireball
F4-stagger-Throw
F43xxAmp-LowFireball
F43xxParry

All of those are very reactable but yes he has more options like:
F4/F43
F4xxBlock
F43xxBlock/Flykick/Bicycle Kick

All of these are punishable on read and it should be in your favor.

He is getting sub 20% without KB and 35% with KB(once per match) off his F4.
Think of characters with just as many options that aren't reactable like Jacqui's F3/F31/F3141+3 or Jax's F3/f33/F331+3 and all the options available off them that require hard reads. All of them are 9f and have the same if not more range if not the sane or better hitboxes.
How about Cassie's F4 or (insert top tier character).

These misconceptions surrounding characters are easily mitigated by becoming familiar with the character in question. Like I said before Main Liu Kang for at least 3 weeks and I'm betting he isn't as free or brain dead as you think.
This is from someone who started with Kotal, Jade, Scarlet, Kitana, Kano, Frost, Raiden and moved onto Cassie, Sonya, Jax, D'Vorah, Noob, Sub, Scorpion and nearly everyone and recently used Shang and Nightwolf. Just started my 3weeks with Liu Kang and I'm 1-1/2 weeks in to using both variations and I can tell you he isn't as free as I thought. I was also under the impression that he was a single button character but after labbing and meaning him to get a better feel of how the character functions at a higher level I've realized he is anything but. In fact some of his corner combos are 2f links.

I labbed this character so I know what I'm talking about.
While I understand that you don't want your character nerfed as much as anyone else, you need to understand that he's too safe, too strong and deals too much damage. When he's considered better than Geras - who's really one of the most soapbar characters in the game - you know you're defending a lost cause if you're trying to say he doesn't need to get brought down to where everyone else is.

F4 hits 6f pokes, easy. It has no business doing that. It has no business being an iWin button that lets this character literally just walk up to another character, F4, and win any trade ever and then even force a guessing game on the other character.

Especially if that character gets 15% off of a right guess while Liu gets 30+

Also, some might be able to react to his shit but trust me not everyone and not always. It's like when people say they can always react to overheads.
SonicFox probably can but the rest of the world not so much.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I labbed this character so I know what I'm talking about.
While I understand that you don't want your character nerfed as much as anyone else, you need to understand that he's too safe, too strong and deals too much damage. When he's considered better than Geras - who's really one of the most soapbar characters in the game - you know you're defending a lost cause if you're trying to say he doesn't need to get brought down to where everyone else is.

F4 hits 6f pokes, easy. It has no business doing that. It has no business being an iWin button that lets this character literally just walk up to another character, F4, and win any trade ever and then even force a guessing game on the other character.

Especially if that character gets 15% off of a right guess while Liu gets 30+

Also, some might be able to react to his shit but trust me not everyone and not always. It's like when people say they can always react to overheads.
SonicFox probably can but the rest of the world not so much.

He isn't my main or my character. I legit hated the character until I labbed him. I don't believe you labbed him enough. Its very possibleyoue jade struggles against his tools. That doesn't make a character broke.

Its reactable I've proven that but let's say some can't well that's not a benchmark to nerf a character. I don't know if you understand this but he had jailing before the patch and they nerfed his cancels his F3xxSS3 has a gap now and every option after F4 is unsafe other than blocking. My answer to those who can't react is to practice until they can.
Labbing a character with your main is not enough. There are bad matchups with every character.
I'm currently maining him for 3 weeks same I've done with many others. I no longer have a problem with LK because of it.
Take my challenge I bet it will surprise you.

 

[GLoRToR]

He isn't my main or my character. I legit hated the character until I labbed him. I don't believe you labbed him enough. Its very possibleyoue jade struggles against his tools. That doesn't make a character broke.

Its reactable I've proven that but let's say some can't well that's not a benchmark to nerf a character. I don't know if you understand this but he had jailing before the patch and they nerfed his cancels his F3xxSS3 has a gap now and every option after F4 is unsafe other than blocking. My answer to those who can't react is to practice until they can.
Labbing a character with your main is not enough. There are bad matchups with every character.
I'm currently maining him for 3 weeks same I've done with many others. I no longer have a problem with LK because of it.
Take my challenge I bet it will surprise you.

Disagreeing with you is not a lack of competence.

I just disagree with you.
My opinion is as good as yours or of those who claim that "Weaker characters need no buffs, the top tiers need nerfs" or people who say "don't nerf the top tiers, buff everyone else".

That's how a forum works.

I'm of the opinion that bullshit needs fixing.
i9 advancing mids into huge damage need fair frame data so they don't automagically solve every scenario by "press this button"
characters with no good mids either need a good mid or something that acceptably makes up for the lack of one
Standing normals with a d1 range and 16f need to either lead to gigantic damage or start up at the same speed as their range determines.
Projectile Immunity that's not immune to projectiles shouldn't be 56 frames of inertia etc etc.
etc
etc
fucking etc.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Disagreeing with you is not a lack of competence.

I just disagree with you.
My opinion is as good as yours or of those who claim that "Weaker characters need no buffs, the top tiers need nerfs" or people who say "don't nerf the top tiers, buff everyone else".

That's how a forum works.

I'm of the opinion that bullshit needs fixing.
i9 advancing mids into huge damage need fair frame data so they don't automagically solve every scenario by "press this button"
characters with no good mids either need a good mid or something that acceptably makes up for the lack of one
Standing normals with a d1 range and 16f need to either lead to gigantic damage or start up at the same speed as their range determines.
Projectile Immunity that's not immune to projectiles shouldn't be 56 frames of inertia etc etc.
etc
etc
fucking etc.

Im not saying you can't have an opinion I just expressed mine. I don't believe he needs additional nerfs but I do believe characters like Jade could use help in certain areas.

 

[Kindred]

I find it funny ppl are still bitching about F4....
If you are losing against a Liu kang player who is only using F4 and F43, it means either of 2 things:

1. the LK player doesnt need to use anything else
2. The LK player is a noob that only knows how to F4 and F43

In either case, it means you're free.

 

[Hellbringer]

I find it funny ppl are still bitching about F4....
If you are losing against a Liu kang player who is only using F4 and F43, it means either of 2 things:

1. the LK player doesnt need to use anything else
2. The LK player is a noob that only knows how to F4 and F43

In either case, it means you're free.

@lordlosh

 

[Tony at Home]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163504254943813632

I have the above recording set to Random Hidden Playback so there is no way I can possibly know what's coming, as you can see I'm consistently punishing all of his options.

You aren't though? In the cases where he does f43u4 you're just eating the u3 plus frames. One might say you can look for the parry and fireball but if you put your focus on that there is a trade off
of letting the u3 rock and having to hold those plus frames.

 

[Wrubez]

Its crazy that before he got nerfed in the last patch, you could ask anyone and majority would have placed LK in a high tier but claim that he is very balanced. That was with the F333 cancel shaningans too. F4 doesn’t even net that high of damage unless it’s a KB.

I’ll agree that F4 could use some adjustments. But also keep in mind that Liu took a heavy nerf to his damage output with the day one patch and slightly nerfed on 1.7. It’s just with the truly broken characters at the time like EB, Geras, and Sonya receiving nerfs, as well as the universal fixes that were implemented, it ended up shining a negative light on LK now.

I’m a big proponent of balance as well and am firmly against nerfing a character into the ground. Sonya for example - I hate her, hated playing against her, etc but wasn’t too fond with them taking away the launcher from a MB DB2. Just takes away from the variety of a FG IMO.

I say adjust the hurt and hit boxes of F4 but if he can’t have a 9f mid then no character should be able to have one judging from the feedback on this forum.

Move it to -8 instead of -7 which is a bigger difference than one would think. Coming from a LK main as well here.

I’m all about variety. I’m guessing the next balance patch won’t be until they release the third variation for each character. I’m truly hoping NRS uses that time to fine tune EVERY character’s tools (including LK’s) so we have more variety.

Bc not for nothing but LK’s other tools are booty cheeks right now so not sure how a third variation would play out. Nunchuck stance is crap and even the command grab is meh.

 

[MagicMan357]

The problem isnt liu kang, the issue is the games meta is wierd asf because there is no pushback on normals. They either have to add pushback or give a universal better back dash. All you can do is block or 50/50 yourself by not blocking and hope you whiff punish lmfao.

 

[Wrubez]

The problem isnt liu kang, the issue is the games meta is wierd asf because there is no pushback on normals. They either have to add pushback or give a universal better back dash. All you can do is block or 50/50 yourself by not blocking and hope you whiff punish lmfao.

I’m actually inclined to agree here. I think even slightly more pushback from an F4 spammer would satisfy those that say it’s broken. For the record - I don’t think Liu is broken at all. Compared to pre-patch Geras, Sonya, and EB, Liu doesn’t touch that level of nonsense IMO.

Also FWIW - I actually try using Liu’s other tools more often than F4 simply because I’ve always felt F4 was solid, but not great in higher levels of play.

 

[Wrubez]

Its crazy that before he got nerfed in the last patch, you could ask anyone and majority would have placed LK in a high tier but claim that he is very balanced. That was with the F333 cancel shaningans too. F4 doesn’t even net that high of damage unless it’s a KB.

I’ll agree that F4 could use some adjustments. But also keep in mind that Liu took a heavy nerf to his damage output with the day one patch and slightly nerfed on 1.7. It’s just with the truly broken characters at the time like EB, Geras, and Sonya receiving nerfs, as well as the universal fixes that were implemented, it ended up shining a negative light on LK now.

I’m a big proponent of balance as well and am firmly against nerfing a character into the ground. Sonya for example - I hate her, hated playing against her, etc but wasn’t too fond with them taking away the launcher from a MB DB2. Just takes away from the variety of a FG IMO.

I say adjust the hurt and hit boxes of F4 but if he can’t have a 9f mid then no character should be able to have one judging from the feedback on this forum.

Move it to -8 instead of -7 which is a bigger difference than one would think. Coming from a LK main as well here.

I’m all about variety. I’m guessing the next balance patch won’t be until they release the third variation for each character. I’m truly hoping NRS uses that time to fine tune EVERY character’s tools (including LK’s) so we have more variety.

Bc not for nothing but LK’s other tools are booty cheeks right now so not sure how a third variation would play out. Nunchuck stance is crap and even the command grab is meh.

Edit - when referring to tools I meant abilities, not buttons or strings

 

[Kanalratte]

I still dont get how they create this character.

we are talking about the guys who also create a 50/50 rushdown character with one of the best projectiles, a zoner with a teleport, a zoner who turns out to be a rushdown character, a character with an endless vortex loop, characters with safe 9f mids and 11f mid FB. trust me they also don't know how to create characters. it's like they do random shit and say "hey that looks cool" without thinking about the balance.

 

[Sazbak]

Punishing Amp Fireball with Sub's s3 is pretty hard, it's like a frame perfect punish. and if you screw up you get punished.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

You aren't though? In the cases where he does f43u4 you're just eating the u3 plus frames. One might say you can look for the parry and fireball but if you put your focus on that there is a trade off
of letting the u3 rock and having to hold those plus frames.

No its choosing better times to punish F43U3 by picking up the players tendencies and making an educated read instead of a risky guess. After punishing it a few times the Liu Kang will be more inclined to throw out Parry/Fireball/LowFireball/Throw instead and be much more reluctant to throw out F43U3 since it will feel like every time they do they are punished hard.

But this was just a entry level short guide to defeating F43 options and higher level Liu's use B1, B34, 212,12, 1, 2, B124xxFireball/B124 staggers far more often than F4 since they are better staggers than -7 and utilize all of his tools.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I find it funny ppl are still bitching about F4....
If you are losing against a Liu kang player who is only using F4 and F43, it means either of 2 things:

1. the LK player doesnt need to use anything else
2. The LK player is a noob that only knows how to F4 and F43

In either case, it means you're free.

Exactly. In Kombat League where conditioning doesn't exsist(since they ignore everything but their autopilot gameplay) I make Liu Kang's afraid to use F4 anything but F4 block lol.

If they are having problems with Liu's F4/F43 only and think he is a one button character they clearly haven't labbed up the MU at a high level.