Trying to mb roll through deadshot's zoning (video)

[chr1sam]

EDIT:

More testing...

My conclusions:

MB roll is terrible against his straight shot. Not only is it hard to get through it but even if you do you don't get a punish and at some ranges he even recovers before you. Meaning you spent a meter to let him pressure you.

MB roll is USELESS against his MB rifle. If you don't get hit at the start you'll either get hit at the end or even if you can block at the end of the roll you still get pushed back out of range.

MB roll is decent against his trick shot. Its still can be hard to time it but if you do he recovers fairly slow so you can defiantly punish(the vid doesn't show this clearly but you defiantly can punish the recovery on this if you make it through).

 

[Azarashi Elder]

I think the recovery of straight shot is a little too quick, but that's my day 2 opinion.

Rifle shot startup seems really good too, at least online. I've yet to really lab against Deadshot, but in my experience, MB roll doesn't do too much. I certainly haven't gotten in with it.

 

[chr1sam]

I think the recovery of straight shot is a little too quick, but that's my day 2 opinion.

Rifle shot startup seems really good too, at least online. I've yet to really lab against Deadshot, but in my experience, MB roll doesn't do too much. I certainly haven't gotten in with it.

Even if you do get in....

 

[SaltShaker]

This time would have been better spent with a simple post in the Deadshot forum saying, "Hi, can you guys give me some tips on how to get in with character X" and you'd have gotten some pretty solid info.

Instead, you'll just get this now-

 

[Synesthesia Z]

I think the recovery of straight shot is a little too quick, but that's my day 2 opinion.

Rifle shot startup seems really good too, at least online. I've yet to really lab against Deadshot, but in my experience, MB roll doesn't do too much. I certainly haven't gotten in with it.

IMO i feel like this move isn't reacting fast enough to its input. And the reason why is clearly visible in the vid.. being your character doing a forward dash first before committing to the actual roll. Maybe this is reduced the faster you input the command, i don't know. Maybe i'm just imagining things, let me know your thoughts on this.

 

[Azarashi Elder]

This time would have been better spent with a simple post in the Deadshot forum saying, "Hi, can you guys give me some tips on how to get in with character X" and you'd have gotten some pretty solid info.

Instead, you'll just get this now-

Alright look... I get it. You guys like zoning. You guys want to have zoning be viable, so do I. Injustice 2 is not MKX and you can't point at MKX and say "This is your rushdown game, have at it!" and excuse zoning that's too powerful, IF that is the case, and I'm not saying it is.

Yes, we have to be careful that people are reacting too quickly and yes, some people are bias against zoning, but a lot of people on this site are bias FOR zoning, and you like to quickly dismiss any complaints about it, regardless of what those are.

Zoners should be able to play their game. Rushdown people should be able to play their game. Footsies people should be able to play their game, and that means a situation where characters can move.

Even if you do get in....

Yeah, his recovery is insane.

Characters throwing fireballs have more recovery.

 

[Azarashi Elder]

IMO i feel like this move isn't reacting fast enough to its input. And the reason why is clearly visible in the vid.. being your character doing a forward dash first before committing to the actual roll. Maybe this is reduced the faster you input the command, i don't know. Maybe i'm just imagining things, let me know your thoughts on this.

No you're right. The MB roll animation doesn't begin until well into the dash animation. During the dash animation and just before the roll, you can be hit out of it by projectile or attack, it doesn't matter.

 

[SaltShaker]

Zoners should be able to play their game. Rushdown people should be able to play their game. Footsies people should be able to play their game

That is already the case, as proven by the solid players who are learning the MU and getting around it in under a week. Everyone can play their game. Sonic Fox is the exception to every rule.

 

[Azarashi Elder]

That is already the case, as proven by the solid players who are learning the MU and getting around it in under a week. Everyone can play their game. Sonic Fox is the exception to every rule.

Alright then. If that is the case, time will tell right? No worries.

But obviously, in this example and in my own experience, MB roll is not the easy answer, so we're going to have to be more (and very) patient.

 

[chr1sam]

This time would have been better spent with a simple post in the Deadshot forum saying, "Hi, can you guys give me some tips on how to get in with character X" and you'd have gotten some pretty solid info.

Instead, you'll just get this now-

I don't know what they picture is supposed to mean? Anyway I'm just showing that its hard to use mb roll against deadshots fast projectile and even if it does work that you aren't guaranteed a punish. That's all.

So all you deadshot mains who keep yelling that people should just use mb roll...obviously its not that simple.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

That is already the case, as proven by the solid players who are learning the MU and getting around it in under a week. Everyone can play their game. Sonic Fox is the exception to every rule.

Zoning seem a little too strong tbh

 

[Krabman]

They need to fix MB roll. I get stuffed like 1/3 of the time the input is too damn slow especially against deadshot

 

[Synesthesia Z]

Alright then. If that is the case, time will tell right? No worries.

But obviously, in this example and in my own experience, MB roll is not the easy answer, so we're going to have to be more (and very) patient.

On the contrary tho.. we've had this problem in MKX with FA Jacqui and we've learned to get around it after a while so i'm not worried too much about this.

 

[Invincible Salads]

they need to buff the startup of mb roll imo.

and no, sonic is not the exception

 

[chr1sam]

On the contrary tho.. we've had this problem in MKX with FA Jacqui and we've learned to get around it after a while so i'm not worried too much about this.

Difference is, jacquis projectile recovered a lot slower than deadshots. Some characters could duck and punish her gunshots. I don't know if any character can duck and punish deadshots straight shot.

On top of that jacqui didn't have any mid-hitting projectile that went full screen unless she spent meter. Deadshot has 2.

Plus theres no run in this game.

 

[Scoot Magee]

they need to buff the startup of mb roll imo.

and no, sonic is not the exception

Until the deadshot players start using meter burn roll to keep the distance when you get close.

 

[SaltShaker]

Alright then. If that is the case, time will tell right? No worries.

But obviously, in this example and in my own experience, MB roll is not the easy answer, so we're going to have to be more (and very) patient.

You're a straight dude, so I'm gonna give you a legit response but probably won't respond to the rest of the thread.

MB Roll is not the answer to get in on Wrist Cannon, you will always be hit between the two straight shots. i knew that day -3, and that's not the time you use it. You have to walk. You have different options after block ricochet, rifle, and ducked/blocked 4 shot wrist, and walk straight shots. Once you have mastered all your options, you make the right reads you get in, you make the wrong reads you get hit, as it should be. Once you are in, most rush characters have advantage, and if you KD, you can either body or read WU and blow it up fairly easy without using meter. If you think he'll B1, abuse the 2 gaps in the string or just block and pressure/punish. If you think he'll F2, block and pressure with advantage or punish if no MB. If he does a string free pressure. He only gets 1 turn up close, and if it's wrong you can get 2 or even 3 depending on the character used. I would go into greater detail but this isn't the Deadshot discussion thread and a few people who are fighting rather than complaining know a lot of this stuff already.

I think the biggest issue is taking many players from MKX, who are used to playing rock em sock em robots, so when you have characters who take patience and reads defensively to get around they cannot handle it. Even the guy above is like "there is no run button". Personally, I stopped playing MKX months after release because it was 95% offense and it just wasn't for me, but some others like that. Once Deadshot gets nerfed they will move on to Fate, regardless of how strong rushdown characters are like Cold and Canary. There was not this much outrage against characters like Zod and MMH for example, who were better than Deadshot, and had completely oppressive zoning in some MUs where you LITERALLY couldn't play the game. Yea people complained, and had their memes, but it was nothing close to this, and if anything Batgirl and even Bane got more complaints. Most of that community came from MK9 though and then brought new players, who were already used to diverse playstyles so it wasn't a big deal like the MKX community who have no idea what to do. If a character like Captain Cold is allowed to exist where I'm watching the game instead of playing it when he gets in, then a character like Deadshot or Dr. Fate should be allowed to exist as well.

Which is why I point to MKX. If you want linear offense where you get in and throw attacks nonstop it's there. If you want diversity, then like Inj1 you had to learn the Zod/MMH/Sinestro MU just like you had to learn the Batgirl/Flash/Bane MU. It's been 4 days. Peace.

 

[TonyFatFingers]

You're a straight dude, so I'm gonna give you a legit response but probably won't respond to the rest of the thread.

MB Roll is not the answer to get in on Wrist Cannon, you will always be hit between the two straight shots. i knew that day -3, and that's not the time you use it. You have to walk. You have different options after block ricochet, rifle, and ducked/blocked 4 shot wrist, and walk straight shots. Once you have mastered all your options, you make the right reads you get in, you make the wrong reads you get hit, as it should be. Once you are in, most rush characters have advantage, and if you KD, you can either body or read WU and blow it up fairly easy without using meter. If you think he'll B1, abuse the 2 gaps in the string or just block and pressure/punish. If you think he'll F2, block and pressure with advantage or punish if no MB. If he does a string free pressure. He only gets 1 turn up close, and if it's wrong you can get 2 or even 3 depending on the character used. I would go into greater detail but this isn't the Deadshot discussion thread and a few people who are fighting rather than complaining know a lot of this stuff already.

I think the biggest issue is taking many players from MKX, who are used to playing rock em sock em robots, so when you have characters who take patience and reads defensively to get around they cannot handle it. Even the guy above is like "there is no run button". Personally, I stopped playing MKX months after release because it was 95% offense and it just wasn't for me, but some others like that. Once Deadshot gets nerfed they will move on to Fate, regardless of how strong rushdown characters are like Cold and Canary. There was not this much outrage against characters like Zod and MMH for example, who were better than Deadshot, and had completely oppressive zoning in some MUs where you LITERALLY couldn't play the game. Yea people complained, and had their memes, but it was nothing close to this, and if anything Batgirl and even Bane got more complaints. Most of that community came from MK9 though and then brought new players, who were already used to diverse playstyles so it wasn't a big deal like the MKX community who have no idea what to do. If a character like Captain Cold is allowed to exist where I'm watching the game instead of playing it when he gets in, then a character like Deadshot or Dr. Fate should be allowed to exist as well.

Which is why I point to MKX. If you want linear offense where you get in and throw attacks nonstop it's there. If you want diversity, then like Inj1 you had to learn the Zod/MMH/Sinestro MU just like you had to learn the Batgirl/Flash/Bane MU. It's been 4 days. Peace.

 

[Akromaniac27]

What they need to do is remove his 50/50s and wakeup for free if he has meter, oh wait he always does. It's moronic that you have to get by all that zoning just to then face a mixing game with no OKI if you knock him down.

You wanna zone, then zone, but give up the free ways to open a person up because you quite literally do not need it.

 

[Azarashi Elder]

You're a straight dude, so I'm gonna give you a legit response but probably won't respond to the rest of the thread...
There was not this much outrage against characters like Zod and MMH for example, who were better than Deadshot, and had completely oppressive zoning in some MUs where you LITERALLY couldn't play the game... If you want diversity, then like Inj1 you had to learn the Zod/MMH/Sinestro MU just like you had to learn the Batgirl/Flash/Bane MU. It's been 4 days. Peace.

I appreciate the respect and I'll take the advice to heart.

But I just have to laugh as I point out you said Zod and MMH made it so that some characters couldn't play the game, but then you said "like INJ1" we have to learn those matchups if we want the diversity.

I guess that means that mains with bad matchups against Zod, MMH, and now Deadshot, are going to have to pick a different character, huh? I actually hope that isn't the case.

But you're right. It's been four days and I haven't had a weekend with the game yet. You can trust I'll keep it cool and quiet, until I know my options. Thank you for your help.

 

[chr1sam]

You're a straight dude, so I'm gonna give you a legit response but probably won't respond to the rest of the thread.

MB Roll is not the answer to get in on Wrist Cannon, you will always be hit between the two straight shots. i knew that day -3, and that's not the time you use it. You have to walk. You have different options after block ricochet, rifle, and ducked/blocked 4 shot wrist, and walk straight shots. Once you have mastered all your options, you make the right reads you get in, you make the wrong reads you get hit, as it should be. Once you are in, most rush characters have advantage, and if you KD, you can either body or read WU and blow it up fairly easy without using meter. If you think he'll B1, abuse the 2 gaps in the string or just block and pressure/punish. If you think he'll F2, block and pressure with advantage or punish if no MB. If he does a string free pressure. He only gets 1 turn up close, and if it's wrong you can get 2 or even 3 depending on the character used. I would go into greater detail but this isn't the Deadshot discussion thread and a few people who are fighting rather than complaining know a lot of this stuff already.

I think the biggest issue is taking many players from MKX, who are used to playing rock em sock em robots, so when you have characters who take patience and reads defensively to get around they cannot handle it. Even the guy above is like "there is no run button". Personally, I stopped playing MKX months after release because it was 95% offense and it just wasn't for me, but some others like that. Once Deadshot gets nerfed they will move on to Fate, regardless of how strong rushdown characters are like Cold and Canary. There was not this much outrage against characters like Zod and MMH for example, who were better than Deadshot, and had completely oppressive zoning in some MUs where you LITERALLY couldn't play the game. Yea people complained, and had their memes, but it was nothing close to this, and if anything Batgirl and even Bane got more complaints. Most of that community came from MK9 though and then brought new players, who were already used to diverse playstyles so it wasn't a big deal like the MKX community who have no idea what to do. If a character like Captain Cold is allowed to exist where I'm watching the game instead of playing it when he gets in, then a character like Deadshot or Dr. Fate should be allowed to exist as well.

Which is why I point to MKX. If you want linear offense where you get in and throw attacks nonstop it's there. If you want diversity, then like Inj1 you had to learn the Zod/MMH/Sinestro MU just like you had to learn the Batgirl/Flash/Bane MU. It's been 4 days. Peace.

The problem is even if you make the right read and get in on deadshots zoning he recovers so fast that he can actually attack first many times. And he has a true 50/50 that knocks you back past mid screen. So you spend a bar and if your not really at advantage at all. Thats if you don't get hit out of mb roll.

 

[JLU51306]

It's super obvious Deadshot doesn't lack in terms of strengths, and has a rightfully questionable array of tools outside of his zoning, that he probably doesn't need.

Whether or not you're for, against it, or 'wait and see' about it, Deadshot's getting nerfed. I personally would rather see the MB roll have less start-up, and less recovery.

 

[Invincible Salads]

I appreciate the respect and I'll take the advice to heart.

But I just have to laugh as I point out you said Zod and MMH made it so that some characters couldn't play the game, but then you said "like INJ1" we have to learn those matchups if we want the diversity.

I guess that means that mains with bad matchups against Zod, MMH, and now Deadshot, are going to have to pick a different character, huh? I actually hope that isn't the case.

But you're right. It's been four days and I haven't had a weekend with the game yet. You can trust I'll keep it cool and quiet, until I know my options. Thank you for your help.

theres always gonna be really bad matchups in these games, somewhere. unfortunately it might be YOUR character and unfortunately, if you want to win, your going to have to (guess what?) PICK A DIFFERENT CHARACTER!

 

[Azarashi Elder]

theres always gonna be really bad matchups in these games, somewhere. unfortunately it might be YOUR character and unfortunately, if you want to win, your going to have to (guess what?) PICK A DIFFERENT CHARACTER!

Fair enough. I just hope that it isn't Darkseid, or Supergirl, or someone with a teleport. I want to be able to work my way in and stay in, for as long as necessary, to win.

I do realize that bad matchups are a thing in these games, but that doesn't mean NRS is going to let Deadshot run rampant.

So if that does happen, and Nerf hammer comes down, I expect you and everybody else to SHUT THE HELL UP AND TAKE THE PATCH LIKE A MAN!

Or follow your own advice and pick a different character, right? But I'm sure you will. So, no worries bro.

 

[ATL Jones Bro3]

What they need to do is remove his 50/50s and wakeup for free if he has meter, oh wait he always does. It's moronic that you have to get by all that zoning just to then face a mixing game with no OKI if you knock him down.

You wanna zone, then zone, but give up the free ways to open a person up because you quite literally do not need it.

Why should Batman have incredible rush and still very good zoning? Will you ever beg for nerfs on him?