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Guide "Try to Keep up" - Flash combo thread

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Killjoy McGee

[Hype Intensifies]
I've been trying to get the crouching 1 2 + lightning kicks to come out but I've been having trouble with it. Any tips?
 

Tonymitsu

"Zoom, zoom..."
You have to let go of the d you pressed for the d1,2 before you can input the df1. You can't just hold it down like Street Fighter. Unfortunately if you input it too quickly you will get d1 then cancel into Running Man Stance (dd2).

To practice, I would just do d1,d2 a few times to get a feel for how long it is. Then try hitting d1,2 as fast as you can and letting go, then any time before the animation for that finishes do the df1 (and just mash the MB button if you want to burn it). That's what works for me. Takes practice but once you work out your timing you'll probably wonder how it ever gave you trouble.
 

Xenrail

Noob
I've been trying to get the crouching 1 2 + lightning kicks to come out but I've been having trouble with it. Any tips?
if you release down before you input 2 and go into df1 it'll put you in RMS. you have to execute d12 first then immediately input df1. it should be like this

down (hold) 1, 2 (release) down forward 1 (fast)

this is a huge problem though. i suggest that they should make RMS activated only by holding 2 when inputting d, d+2.
 

Killjoy McGee

[Hype Intensifies]
if you release down before you input 2 and go into df1 it'll put you in RMS. you have to execute d12 first then immediately input df1. it should be like this

down (hold) 1, 2 (release) down forward 1 (fast)

this is a huge problem though. i suggest that they should make RMS activated only by holding 2 when inputting d, d+2.
Thanks man this helps me a bunch.
 
I know 'xx' means 'cancel into' and I know canceling means breaking out of a current animation or move by inputing another move that cancels the previous one. So what is a good move with Flash to use as a cancel? Are there any videos showing canceling moves and timing? I'd like to see one with Flash, but any Injustice character would be helpful.
 

Xenrail

Noob
I know 'xx' means 'cancel into' and I know canceling means breaking out of a current animation or move by inputing another move that cancels the previous one. So what is a good move with Flash to use as a cancel? Are there any videos showing canceling moves and timing? I'd like to see one with Flash, but any Injustice character would be helpful.
df1 : Lightning kick
df3: Sonic Pound
bf2: Lightning Charge
bf3: Lightning Uppercut

these are the most common for the Flash.

A tech for example is LKDC (lightning kick dash cancel). The input required for this is:

df1 (hold 1) xx dash.

If you properly executed the input for this tech, you should see yourself starting up the LK animation and then canceling it with a dash -- hence the lightning kick dash cancel.

A more complex combo you can tech this into is

b22 xx df1(hold1) xx dash

What you should see on your screen is the flash back handing twice and then dash instantly right after.
 
df1 : Lightning kick
df3: Sonic Pound
bf2: Lightning Charge
bf3: Lightning Uppercut

these are the most common for the Flash.
I'm not sure I follow. Those specials can be used as cancels? Many combos in the first post includes stuff like "-starter-xxLightning Kick . . ." Does that combo use LK as the cancel or is it canceling into LK?

Secondly, those specials have different ranges and degrees of knockback. If they can all be used as a cancel, wouldn't some not work in some combos? LU and SP both knock the opponent down. Doesn't that break the combo?
 
A tech for example is LKDC (lightning kick dash cancel). The input required for this is:

df1 (hold 1) xx dash.

If you properly executed the input for this tech, you should see yourself starting up the LK animation and then canceling it with a dash -- hence the lightning kick dash cancel.

A more complex combo you can tech this into is

b22 xx df1(hold1) xx dash

What you should see on your screen is the flash back handing twice and then dash instantly right after
Are dash cancels easier with sticks? I just tried it in practice with a PS3 controller, and it's really unreliable.

Even when I did cancel it, I don't see how it would help in a fight. Since you have to hold 1 in that string, you end up standing in one place not attacking or blocking. It may only be a few frames, but why would you leave yourself open during those frames when you could be attacking or setting up for an attack?

What is the point of doing 'b22 xx df1(hold1) xx dash'? Couldn't you do 'b22 dash' and end up doing basically the same thing, but faster?
 

Xenrail

Noob
Are dash cancels easier with sticks? I just tried it in practice with a PS3 controller, and it's really unreliable.

Even when I did cancel it, I don't see how it would help in a fight. Since you have to hold 1 in that string, you end up standing in one place not attacking or blocking. It may only be a few frames, but why would you leave yourself open during those frames when you could be attacking or setting up for an attack?

What is the point of doing 'b22 xx df1(hold1) xx dash'? Couldn't you do 'b22 dash' and end up doing basically the same thing, but faster?
frame advantage
 
frame advantage
I've heard the term before, and know what it means in theory, but I don't really understand how it helps anyone in a real fight. Is there a good video that shows what a frame advantage is and how you use dash canceling in a combo?

Assume I know nothing about fighting games. Using an obscure, technical term to explain another obscure, technical term doesn't help answer the question.
 

Hiltzy85

I'm THAT fast
I've heard the term before, and know what it means in theory, but I don't really understand how it helps anyone in a real fight. Is there a good video that shows what a frame advantage is and how you use dash canceling in a combo?

Assume I know nothing about fighting games. Using an obscure, technical term to explain another obscure, technical term doesn't help answer the question.
Lets say, for instance, that you do an attack that leaves you at a frame advantage of +5. This means that you can act 5 frames sooner than your opponent. If they input an attack while you are at a +5 advantage, it will come out 5 frames later than it normally would. If their fastest attack is 6f (like a d1 for some characters), and they do it while you are at +5, it will take 11 frames for their attack to become active. That means that you can use your frame advantage to either keep people from attacking (and you get to continue pressuring), or you can use the advantage you generate to have your attacks interrupt the startup of theirs.

Basically you want to use your frame advantage to prevent the opponent from doing things other than continuing to try and block your pressure or mix ups. In street fighter, being at frame advantage is a good way to get counter hits.
 

Tonymitsu

"Zoom, zoom..."
To elaborate further, frame advantage and disadvantage refers to the "recovery" time after you execute an attack.

Fighting games 101:
Whenever a character attacks in a fighting game, it doesn't just hit the instant you press a button. Every attack has an animation. Virtually all fighting games are displayed at 60 frames per second of animation, so when we refer to frames, it refers to the length animations that happen when you press buttons.

Frames to hit: This is the number of frames that must occur in an attack before it can actually connect with someone (to hit, for short).
Collision frames: Once the "to hit" frames have occured, then come the collision frames. This is simply a term of convenience I use to refer to the the length of time in which a hit-box on a move is active. They vary greatly depending on the attack.
Recovery frames: Once the collision window has passed (or the attack is blocked), this the length of time that must pass before you are allowed to do anything. During recovery you are generally totally helpless to whatever your opponent can do, so the shorter this is, the better the move.
Hit stun and Block stun: Terms you will see a lot in Street Fighter, but here the concept is the same. Basically whenever an attack connects, there is a certain length of time your character reels from the blow (even on block). Think of them exactly like recovery frames. The length of these also vary greatly depending on the attack that hit or was blocked.

Frame advantage and disadvantage is a combination of the recovery frames on your attack and the hit/block stun that it creates. This is one of the ways you determine what the good attacks are. Generally block stun is the important one, as it is extremely rare (and almost always unintentional) that an attack will actually leave you at a disadvantage on hit (though it does happen, see Raphael's WS B in Soulcalibur IV for details.)

Safe: A catch-all term for anything you do that the opponent can't effectively punish you for. At the most basic, any time you are left at 0 on block, it means that you and the opponent recover at the same time.
Frame Advantage: Any time you recover before an opponent. Happens all the time on attack. Usually attacks that have a lot of to hit frames and thus are easily interrupted will have advantage on block.
Frame Disadvantage: Any time you recover after your opponent. How much this actually matters depends entirely on what your opponent can do with the time he has available.

Frame data is entirely character dependent, and specific to each matchup. What is considered safe is all about what your opponent can punish with and how.

How this helps people in fights is pretty much the same as knowing an opponent's move list. If you know what is safe, what can be punished, how it can be punished, and what you are risking when you attack, you stand a much better chance of winning than the person who doesn't know these things, and just throws out attacks randomly until something connects.
If you know that doing Flash's f2,1,3 leaves you at a +11 on block, and your opponent doesn't, they will try to attack you after blocking it. Since you recover far earlier than they do, you are guaranteed to interrupt anything they do.
 
Lets say, for instance, that you do an attack that leaves you at a frame advantage of +5. This means that you can act 5 frames sooner than your opponent. If they input an attack while you are at a +5 advantage, it will come out 5 frames later than it normally would. If their fastest attack is 6f (like a d1 for some characters), and they do it while you are at +5, it will take 11 frames for their attack to become active. That means that you can use your frame advantage to either keep people from attacking (and you get to continue pressuring), or you can use the advantage you generate to have your attacks interrupt the startup of theirs.

Basically you want to use your frame advantage to prevent the opponent from doing things other than continuing to try and block your pressure or mix ups. In street fighter, being at frame advantage is a good way to get counter hits.
Are you saying when Flash does a dash cancel, he actually slows the opponent down? Is dashing Flash's only way to cancel? Xenrail (post 158) makes it sound like most of his special moves can also be used as cancels.

To elaborate further, frame advantage and disadvantage refers to the "recovery" time after you execute an attack.

Fighting games 101:
Whenever a character attacks in a fighting game, it doesn't just hit the instant you press a button. Every attack has an animation. Virtually all fighting games are displayed at 60 frames per second of animation, so when we refer to frames, it refers to the length animations that happen when you press buttons.
Right, I know that about frames. It's part of why I'm disappointed in how Lex Luthor plays. He has quite a few fun tools to use, but most of them have such a long animation that they are hard to pull off in a fight. But that's an issue for another thread.

But I don't get how this applies to Flash's dash cancel.

b22 xx df1(hold1) xx dash

That's the string Xenrail said to use to do a dash cancel. Since you have to hold 1, Flash ends up in an animation for at least a few frames where he's not attacking or blocking. Doesn't that open a window for his opponent to attack?

b22 dash

Why don't I just do that string? It does the same amount of damage, takes fewer frames and it's far more reliable. What benefit does the first string give me that I don't get from the second one? Are there any videos that explain this kind of thing?
 
mcnabulous
I think you need to broaden your definition of cancel; your posts read as if you think cancel and dash-cancel are interchangeable terms. They are not.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/cancel-into-x.31808/
I may be misreading something, but I don't see anything in that thread that explains the difference between the two.

I was basing my weak understanding of a cancel on the same wiktionary.org link you posted in that thread. Here's their definition of a cancel.

Cancelling, a concept invented in the Street Fighter II series, is defined as breaking out of a current animation or move by inputing another move that cancels the previous one. Attacks are defined as "cancelable" meaning they have the ability to be canceled (and effectively comboed) into a special or super (the act of cancelling a special move into a super move is usually called Super Cancel). It also sometimes referred to as interrupting. In some games, the move which is used to cancel a previous move usually does less damage than if the move is used alone.

That quote is part of why I started asking questions in this thread. In Flash's case, what other move of his can I use to cancel the previous one? And, in layman's terms, what benefit does it give in a specific combat situation? A video tutorial of this would be very helpful.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
mcnabulous

Cancelling a normal or string ("combo attacks" in the move list) into a special move is the basis of most combos in Injustice.

You cannot dash cancel out of normals/strings. DF1 is one of the few special moves in the game that is dash cancellable.

In your example, you said "why not just do b22 dash". This is because it is not possible. If you look at the difference between doing b22 xx df1 and b22 dash you will see that when you cancel into a special move, b22 xx df1 for example, it ends the animation of b22 abruptly. However if you were to try to do B22 dash, you see flash's arms have to fully lower back into position before you can act. This is because you are not cancelling, you are waiting for the animation of B22 to finish.
 
But what exactly is canceling? What buttons do you press to cancel? When you do b22 xx df1, what exactly is xx? What are you pressing?
I think this thread will be of good use to you: http://testyourmight.com/threads/information-for-new-players.30656/

As for cancelling:

Say you press 1, 1, 2 for a normal string, and a special move is inputted as Down, Forward, 2, it would go like this:

1, 1, 2, Down, Forward, 2.

There is no button needed for cancelling into a special: it's supposed to be a smooth/rough, string-to-special input transition.
The "xx" is a term used to tell you that a string is cancelled into a special move.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
mcnabulous

xx just is a notation to show you are pressing it quickly to cause the cancel to happen, as opposed to B22 DF1 which would mean B22, wait until B22 has finished, then DF1.

If there was no notation for it, there would be no way to differentiate between these two. That is what xx means.

Essentially, xx means "do it fast"
 
But what exactly is canceling? What buttons do you press to cancel? When you do b22 xx df1, what exactly is xx? What are you pressing?
Quoting myself from the aforelinked thread:
Most often noobs are confused by when to input the commands relative to what his or her character is doing onscreen... As a general rule you should input all the the commands back to back to back, as one continuous string of inputs. Cadence will vary from player to player and character to character; nevertheless timing is a critical factor.
 

Tonymitsu

"Zoom, zoom..."
But what exactly is canceling? What buttons do you press to cancel? When you do b22 xx df1, what exactly is xx? What are you pressing?
Nothing. the xx is just jargon used when typing combos to indicate a cancel is taking place.

In this case, cancelling means that the special move is executed before the animation of the normal move actually finishes. You "cancel" the normal and start another move.
If you pretend 1,1,2 bf2 is a string like any other string, and input exactly that, you get three punches canceled into a Lightning Charge.

Dash-cancelling is different. It means that instead of doing the special move in question, you double-tap a forward or backward dash. Kabal could do this in MK9 by cancelling his Spin Dash with bb. Not many moves in IGAU can be dash cancelled.

The advantage is that the opponent is expecting one thing to come out. You stop it and do something else.

to use Tekken notations:
b+2,2, qcf+[1],~f,f is what you are trying to do. You are cancelling the b22 string into the Lightning Kick, which can be delayed by holding 1, which then allows you to quickly tap ff to cancel the lightning kick into a forward dash.
Doing so shaves a ton of recovery frames off an ordinary b22
 
I think this thread will be of good use to you: http://testyourmight.com/threads/information-for-new-players.30656/

As for cancelling:

Say you press 1, 1, 2 for a normal string, and a special move is inputted as Down, Forward, 2, it would go like this:

1, 1, 2, Down, Forward, 2.

There is no button needed for cancelling into a special: it's supposed to be a smooth/rough, string-to-special input transition.
The "xx" is a term used to tell you that a string is cancelled into a special move.
So there's no extra input at all between the normal combo and the special? Then what's the point of putting xx at all? Why not assume all inputs in a string transition into each other?

If that's all a cancel is, then you should stop sending people to that thread. It's not good info for new players learning about canceling. That page gives you a link which defines canceling "as breaking out of a current animation or move by inputing another move that cancels the previous one." But since you don't need to do another move between 1, 1, 2 and down, forward, 2, that definition is very misleading.


It would probably be a lot easier for newbs to understand if you said xx means 'combo into.' Canceling makes people think you actually cancel a move, which isn't the case most of the time for this game. 'Combo into' would be a much better term since it actually describes what you're doing, extending the combo.
 
So there's no extra input at all between the normal combo and the special? Then what's the point of putting xx at all? Why not assume all inputs in a string transition into each other?

If that's all a cancel is, then you should stop sending people to that thread. It's not good info for new players learning about canceling. That page gives you a link which defines canceling "as breaking out of a current animation or move by inputing another move that cancels the previous one." But since you don't need to do another move between 1, 1, 2 and down, forward, 2, that definition is very misleading.
The "xx" is there for the sake of clarity. Certain combos do not require cancelling or have a cancel in there somewhere, but not throughout the whole combo.

Who said I kept sending people to that thread for the purpose of learning how to cancel?
I link into that thread so you may learn other information that you may have not known about.

This "other move" is the special move that is cancelled into.
 
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