Strategy True King of Atlantis -- Aquaman General Discussion Thread

[knight x1868]

Hence why it's ok. You're not going to wake up every time with it, but it's a viable wakeup on it's own and the threat of that means AM isn't free to pressure on wakeup.

I don't like it... the risk is much greater than the reward on that one.
But I guess it's either that or guess correctly on the MU.

 

[dabuz]

I don't like it... the risk is much greater than the reward on that one.
But I guess it's either that or guess correctly on the MU.

That's the nature of most wakeups in a nutshell. I'd rather take a 50-50 where one option can give me a decent combo + setup my own wakeup game while the other choice puts me and the opponent back in neutral position vs. never taking the trident scoop risk and always having a 50-50 where the best I can hope for is to make the right block and either be put in neutral or have block disadvantage.

 

[Dizzy]

His wakeups kind of suck. None are fully invincible and vulnerable to well timed cross overs/meaties.

I normally use trident rush. If they block, its good for you. If they get hit, you can MB and do 27% which is a good amount. The one bar scoop combo does 32% so you dont really lose much dmg anyways. If they jump or time their meaty correctly you are in for a world of pain though.

 

[dabuz]

IIRC trident scoop has more invincibility frames before the attack comes out than trident rush.

 

[knight x1868]

His wakeups kind of suck. None are fully invincible and vulnerable to well timed cross overs/meaties.

I normally use trident rush. If they block, its good for you. If they get hit, you can MB and do 27% which is a good amount. The one bar scoop combo does 32% so you dont really lose much dmg anyways. If they jump or time their meaty correctly you are in for a world of pain though.

Push block is trident rush's worst enemy man...
If I'm cornered I'm looking for a way out. Mid-screen, I'm teching, d2 the cross up into a full combo punish...

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Push block is trident rush's worst enemy man...
If I'm cornered I'm looking for a way out. Mid-screen, I'm teching, d2 the cross up into a full combo punish...

Who cares if they push block? Even more of a meter advantage for aquaman and space. The whole point of trident rush is that they either spend meter to push block, or you get chip and meter.

 

[knight x1868]

Who cares if they push block? Even more of a meter advantage for aquaman and space. The whole point of trident rush is that they either spend meter to push block, or you get chip and meter.

Yeah, definitely.

 

[Treadmill]

Hey guys I just started playing aquaman. What do you guys do to pressure outside of b12/22 rush? I've toyed with shield burst on block but I've not noticed ppl using that as a pressure tool

 

[knight x1868]

Hey guys I just started playing aquaman. What do you guys do to pressure outside of b12/22 rush? I've toyed with shield burst on block but I've not noticed ppl using that as a pressure tool

Good corner pressure... f13 is still viable. I would go f13 rush or f13, d1 scoop (on confirm) or rush (MB if you can spare the meter). But also MU with b2(u3) when they start respecting the b12.


EDIT: Soap may be able to give you better insight on how to use it effectively.

 

[TRY_HARD]

Hey guys I just started playing aquaman. What do you guys do to pressure outside of b12/22 rush? I've toyed with shield burst on block but I've not noticed ppl using that as a pressure tool

If youre arent vsing someone who can punish trident rush then why not chip them to death?
Anyway i like to mix up with f13 and f1 x b12 you cant fuzzy guard them and its only a 6 frame gap inbetween f1 x b12 and a 5 frame gap for f13 and if they try to MB b3 then you can f1 trident rush to blow that up (or do f1 scoop if youre think they will try to armor you but keep in mind the obvious risk w/ scoop)

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Hey guys I just started playing aquaman. What do you guys do to pressure outside of b12/22 rush? I've toyed with shield burst on block but I've not noticed ppl using that as a pressure tool

This is very matchup dependent. Vs.... say flash who can punish rush on block, but has a really short range d1, you can stagger the b123 string to create pressure mixups. Do not do this at point blank range but at closer to b1 max range. Although b1 b12 and b123 are negative on block, he has a really hard time counter poking it due to his lack of range. He can uppercut out or back dash, but obviously you can read and punish.

Another thing is.... strings into water shield. first thing is b123 watershield mb burst is a true block string. so if you are fighting say superman and cant rush, try this, it is adv on block (I think, I need to double check). Then once he respects the burst you can let the shield go instead and stay safe without spending any meter. It is really gimmicky, but it can be effective.

General Pressure stuff. fwd1 is your best friend. 7 frames, plus 3 on block, and gives you a little space. You can use the 3 follow up which is 0 on block (just nerfed from plus 3 in the patch) or, fwd 1 again (you can only do two in a row I believe due to pushback) or b12. Mix fwd1 in with your staggers and offense for great results.

All these staggers and gimmicks and all are additions to your offense. Against almost everybody in the cast, you can pretty much just b12 rush and go back into your defensive game, because it is not worth it to create gaps for your opponent to start their offense ( besides fwd1, I pretty much use this in all matches). These are exceptions to the rule when you cannot rush due to it being unsafe (only superman and flash) or when you need to make up life and make something happen. Hope this helps!!!

 

[knight x1868]

This is very matchup dependent. Vs.... say flash who can punish rush on block, but has a really short range d1, you can stagger the b123 string to create pressure mixups. Do not do this at point blank range but at closer to b1 max range. Although b1 b12 and b123 are negative on block, he has a really hard time counter poking it due to his lack of range. He can uppercut out or back dash, but obviously you can read and punish.

Another thing is.... strings into water shield. first thing is b123 watershield mb burst is a true block string. so if you are fighting say superman and cant rush, try this, it is adv on block (I think, I need to double check). Then once he respects the burst you can let the shield go instead and stay safe without spending any meter. It is really gimmicky, but it can be effective.

General Pressure stuff. fwd1 is your best friend. 7 frames, plus 3 on block, and gives you a little space. You can use the 3 follow up which is 0 on block (just nerfed from plus 3 in the patch) or, fwd 1 again (you can only do two in a row I believe due to pushback) or b12. Mix fwd1 in with your staggers and offense for great results.

All these staggers and gimmicks and all are additions to your offense. Against almost everybody in the cast, you can pretty much just b12 rush and go back into your defensive game, because it is not worth it to create gaps for your opponent to start their offense ( besides fwd1, I pretty much use this in all matches). These are exceptions to the rule when you cannot rush due to it being unsafe (only superman and flash) or when you need to make up life and make something happen. Hope this helps!!!

I really like the staggering stuff. Let us know what you learn once you go in the lab with Aquaman and do the b123 Watershield MB. I have a hard time getting in on Superman and that might be my answer instead of playing Green Arrow (even though GA is my other main...).

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

It definitely is a block string and is plus on block.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Has anybody implemented standing 3 into their game?

 

[Ben Reed]

I've thought about 3 recently, but I honestly can't see much potential for it simply because there's not many options from 3 compared to f1, and there are better punishment applications for it as well.

The block advantage is nice, but there are limited cancel options (Trident Rush is safe but discards advantage, scoop and FTD are obviously unsafe, you can activate Water Shield, but that's kinda gimmicky), and the combos from it are kind of abortive. It also pushes back kinda far; you're in range for f1 afterwards, but you'll have to special-cancel f1 meterless, because f13~scoop won't reach for the 2nd hit. Even working it into corner combos in place of 22 and/or b123 doesn't net you any extra damage because the additional hits from the other strings outperform the less scaled but limited 3s. Honestly this move is a lot better on block than it is on hit, and that's the main reason it sees so little use.

It has decent startup for a 3, but is not an ideal punish either midscreen or in the corner, because unless you NEED an unscaled 1-hit launch like in the Aquaman mirror, you have better options for punishment in the majority of situations where 3 would work.

Its recovery is the biggest blow against it as corner filler because you need a very high float in order to combo after it early after a launch. From f3, you can do 3, b123~whatever, or from d2, you can do 2, 3~whatever, but both of those scale unfavorably compared to just working in 2 b123 strings.

It also doesn't scrape the ground very well for refloats into special cancel late in a combo. I'm not sure whether this is because the startup is just a bit too long, or because the hitbox doesn't reach as low as b1 or d3. (I THINK it's the latter, judging by what I see with collision region turned on.) I'd be interested to see if this would change if NRS extended its collision region all the way to the floor. But I guess that would be hard to do with how NRS models moves without outright shortening the startup, so that the move goes active while the butt of his trident is near the ground. That might cause more problems than it solves with this move (Aquaman blowing up d1s with a super-fast 3 that's plus on block).

It's okay anti-air, but is SUPER hard to capitalize off midscreen. The opponent flies away from you so fast that scoop is basically not an option and 3~DB2 MB basically only works if you anti-air them RIGHT before they land. You basically have to have a bar in order to reliably capitalize off 3, because 3~DB1 even on ground hit does WAY too much funky self-crossup stuff to reliably confirm. Best you can generally get for no bar is 23% (see below), and you basically HAVE to use a d2 to confirm from 3~scoop.

Main application I can think for it so far would be the Aquaman mirror, honestly. Trait out of a b12~FTD whiff punish attempt and get a short but less scaled 1-hit launch punish from 3 instead of d2 or reversal FTD. Even then the damage is only slightly better than a d2 punish for the SAME amount of meter (see below).

Honestly I think this move would be a lot better if it just reached a little closer (or a LOT closer) to the floor. It could afford to be kinda meh midscreen if it allowed a monster scrape in corner combos allowing you to pack more 2s and the like into your combos. Or they could give it a short string out of it, like a 33, with a second hit that grants you a higher float but sacrifices advantage (perhaps to the point of punishment) on block, allowing more reward for frontloading it in combos before going to b123. This may be the most reasonable change to the move without making it go super low to the ground, which would likely require it to start up earlier.

COMBO REFERENCE:

All combos have both hits of DB1 connect unless otherwise noted.

Spoiler

(midscreen)

(1 stock)
22~DB2, b12~DB2 MB, 22~DB1, f2 1+3 = 43%
22~DB2, b12~DB1, 22~DB2 MB, f2 1+3 = 42%
b12~DB2, b12~DB2 MB, 22~DB1, f2 1+3 = 40%
d1~DB2, b12~DB2 MB, 22~Db1, f2 1+3 = 39%
3~DB2 MB, dash, b12~DB1, f2 1+3 = 34%
f13 (second hit only)~DB1, 22~DB2 MB, f2 1+3 = 34%
f13 (second hit only)~DB2 MB, dash, b12~DB1, f2 1+3 = 33%
d2 (anti-air), j2, 22~DB2 MB, 22~DB1, f2 1+3 = 32%
f13 (both hits)~DB2 MB, dash, b12~DB1, f2 1+3 = 31%
3~DB1 (1 hit), d2, 22~DB2 MB, f2 1+3 = 30%
d2 (anti-air), 22~DB2 MB, 22~DB1, f2 1+3 = 30%
d2 (anti-air), 3~DB2 MB, dash, b12~DB1, f2 1+3 = 27%

(meterless)
22~DB2, b12~DB1, f2 1+3 = 32%
d1~DB2, b12~DB1, f2 1+3 = 29%
3~DB1 (1 hit), d2, f2 1+3 = 23%
f13 (second hit only)~DB1, f2 1+3 = 22%
f13 (both hits)~DB1, f2 1+3 = 21%
d2, 22~DB1 (1 hit), f2 1+3 = 20%

(corner)

(1 bar)
22~DB2, b123~DB2 MB, 2, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 47%
d1~DB2, b123~DB2 MB, 2, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 43%
b12~DB2, b123~DB2 MB, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 43%
f13 (second hit only), 2, b123~DB2 MB, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 41%
f13 (second hit only), 2, 3~DB2 MB, 2, b123~DB1, f2 1+ 3 = 40%
f13 (second hit only), 2, 3~DB2 MB, 2, 3~DB1, f2 1+3 = 39%
f13 (both hits), 2, 2, b123~DB2 MB, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 38%
f13 (second hit only), 3~DB2 MB, 2, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 38%
3~DB2 MB, 2, 2, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 38%
f13 (both hits), 3~DB2 MB, 2, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 36%
d2 (ground hit), 2, b123~DB2 MB, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 31%
d2 (ground hit), 3~DB2 MB, 2, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 30%
d2 (ground hit), 3~DB2 MB, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 29%

(meterless)

22~DB2, b123~DB1 (1 hit), f2 1+3 = 35%
b12~DB2, b123~DB1 (1 hit), f2 1+3 = 32%
f13 (second hit only), 2, 2, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 31%
d1~DB2, b123~DB1 (1 hit), f2 1+3 = 30%
f13 (second hit only), 2, 2, 3~DB1, f2 1+3 = 30%
f13 (both hits), 2, 2, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 29%
f13 (both hits), 2, 2, 3~DB1, f2 1+3 = 28%
d2, 2, 2, b123~DB1, f2 1+3 = 24%
3~DB1, f2 1+3 = 23%

The combos in blue were the experimental combos that I tried to work as many 3s as possible into. The combos in white are the control combos, the BnBs I was already doing from various starters.

As you can see, 3-intensive combos kinda fall around the middle of the pack for damage dealt from various starters. They tend to do better than d2 damage-wise, but come from a far less versatile combo starter than d2. And 3's filler power really peters out after 1 series of (float state), 2, b123~DB2 MB. It's a little too slow to refloat as their gravity increases, and a lot of times if you get it late, the refloat has decayed so badly that the opponent will land before DB1 can connect even if cancelled ASAP from 3.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

The use of 3 is actually simpler than any of that. If you get it out on block, your opponent cannot d1 out of b12. So they either sit there and take b12 trident rush, jump or back dash all of which is punishable. Or you can simply use it as a get off me move in matches you cannot trident rush for space.

 

[Name v.5.0]

Anyone else notice how free General Zod is to Aquaman?

Water shield for the win. It's finally VERY useful

 

[Treadmill]

This is very matchup dependent. Vs.... say flash who can punish rush on block, but has a really short range d1, you can stagger the b123 string to create pressure mixups. Do not do this at point blank range but at closer to b1 max range. Although b1 b12 and b123 are negative on block, he has a really hard time counter poking it due to his lack of range. He can uppercut out or back dash, but obviously you can read and punish.

Another thing is.... strings into water shield. first thing is b123 watershield mb burst is a true block string. so if you are fighting say superman and cant rush, try this, it is adv on block (I think, I need to double check). Then once he respects the burst you can let the shield go instead and stay safe without spending any meter. It is really gimmicky, but it can be effective.

General Pressure stuff. fwd1 is your best friend. 7 frames, plus 3 on block, and gives you a little space. You can use the 3 follow up which is 0 on block (just nerfed from plus 3 in the patch) or, fwd 1 again (you can only do two in a row I believe due to pushback) or b12. Mix fwd1 in with your staggers and offense for great results.

All these staggers and gimmicks and all are additions to your offense. Against almost everybody in the cast, you can pretty much just b12 rush and go back into your defensive game, because it is not worth it to create gaps for your opponent to start their offense ( besides fwd1, I pretty much use this in all matches). These are exceptions to the rule when you cannot rush due to it being unsafe (only superman and flash) or when you need to make up life and make something happen. Hope this helps!!!

Thanks this really helps.

I'm liking aquaman. Most characters in this game just don't feel right to me. Like there movement doesn't match there strings or specials or something. I don't know its hard to say. Aquaman on the other hand just feels right. He feels responsive and his moves feel appropriately fast etc. For what they are.

So far catwoman, batman, aquaman, and oddly harley have that "right" feel.

 

[Ben Reed]

The use of 3 is actually simpler than any of that. If you get it out on block, your opponent cannot d1 out of b12. So they either sit there and take b12 trident rush, jump or back dash all of which is punishable. Or you can simply use it as a get off me move in matches you cannot trident rush for space.

I know all that. I just think it's inefficient compared to just using f1 for more or less the same purpose.

f1 just seems like a better choice in damn near every situation where you'd want to use 3 at neutral. Advantage on block, big standing advantage on hit (even vs. characters like Doomsday, I'd rather have them standing at massive advantage where I could mix them up or bait them, rather than knocked away where the only thing I can do to them is walk forward, dash/jump away, or a token FTD check that may or may not be safe at that range...all of which are shitty options against a good Doomsday), confirm it into much better combos, and its only real weaknesses (range, pushback on block, and a recovery that's vulnerable to backdashes) are shared by 3 anyway. I don't really miss the extra +1 on block because it's not a huge threshold for the power of Aquaman's frame traps anyway.

And if I need a get-off-me move that's more anti-air oriented, there's d2. Cut and dried.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I know all that. I just think it's inefficient compared to just using f1 for more or less the same purpose.

f1 just seems like a better choice in damn near every situation where you'd want to use 3 at neutral. Advantage on block, big standing advantage on hit (even vs. characters like Doomsday, I'd rather have them standing at massive advantage where I could mix them up or bait them, rather than knocked away where the only thing I can do to them is walk forward, dash/jump away, or a token FTD check that may or may not be safe at that range...all of which are shitty options against a good Doomsday), confirm it into much better combos, and its only real weaknesses (range, pushback on block, and a recovery that's vulnerable to backdashes) are shared by 3 anyway. I don't really miss the extra +1 on block because it's not a huge threshold for the power of Aquaman's frame traps anyway.

And if I need a get-off-me move that's more anti-air oriented, there's d2. Cut and dried.

I agree fwd1 is better if your going to continue your offense. But 3 gives better pushback so I think it could be better if you are say, running away from the flash or something.

 

[DanableLector]

I play Aquaman like a long ranged wall in most MUs. Keep someone in YOUR dash in range so you can always threaten mixups but otherwise just work on taking defensive options to punish them and play safe which forces unsafe approaches or options by the opponent.

. I play a similar AM. Match up dependent of course, but I don't play hero AM. I play super safe AM. I learned a lot playing Mr Mileena. In just one set I was able to see all the holes in my game. I wasn't Being patient at all, with such insane range and a great projectile in ftd, f2 1+3 range is ideal.

 

[TRY_HARD]

Okay so i found this out awhile ago but forgot to mention it and i havent seem anyone else talk about it so idt most ppl know this

AM can trait inbetween Superman's rising grab and heat vision. After the 2nd hit of rising grab if AM had his trait active before that hit he can block any heat vision follow up. So if superman doesnt MB his heat vision you get a free punish every time

The best punish ive found so far is a dash into a scoop that AA's him and then i go into f2 1+3 (for 17% or 19% depending on weither the scoop hits him once or twice) or 22 db2 MB f2 1+3 after the scoop for 32% (however you have to delay the 2 if both scoop hits twiceotherwise youre 22 goes in the opposite direction and its 32% either way but if you dash and imput the scoop quickly it only hits once)

So yeah havent seen anyone talk about this yet and it probably not gonna really change the mu much but its one more thing we have over superman now

 

[Slick Rick]

Could some please recommend a thorough aquaman tutorial vid that is, preferably, still relevant post patches?

 

[TaffyMeat]

14 pages and nobody mentions Smallville. Just Sayin'

 

[Shazoo757]

Hey, so I'm pretty new to aquaman and finding a little trouble with this characters and need some questions cleared up.
1. Is his main pressure the b12 when up close? Because I find that most people just block low when I get in their face.
2. Is their a better chain than going into b12 or b2 into scoop, because since the scoop isnt safe anymore, the opponent gets a free combo if it's blocked.
3. What is up with his b2u3 combos? Sometimes they work and sometimes they dont. I'm assuming it has to do with the range around where you hit the opponent with the b2