Top 5, Top 10 or irrelevant (as of Kombat Pack 1 conclusion)

[Youphemism]

People have this tendency to think a character is top 10 because a good PLAYER placed with him/her, like Sonic Fox.

Ok can you stop with this argument? Noone has brought up that a character is so good because "Sonicfox played them". That's a stupid argument to make and a huge assumption you're making of people who've never claimed such a thing. Kitana is not considered possible top 10 because one player picked her up and won with her, she's considered possible top 10 by some people because she has some of, if not the, highest meterless and/or even unbreakable damage, she has decent zoning, an armoured launcher that leads into mid 30s (someone correct me if I'm wrong on the damage there) and she controls space better than a lot of the other characters. That's not even all the reasons but the point is that argument is assumptive and wrong.

 

[errormacro7]

Ok can you stop with this argument? Noone has brought up that a character is so good because "Sonicfox played them". That's a stupid argument to make and a huge assumption you're making of people who've never claimed such a thing. Kitana is not considered possible top 10 because one player picked her up and won with her, she's considered possible top 10 by some people because she has some of, if not the, highest meterless and/or even unbreakable damage, she has decent zoning, an armoured launcher that leads into mid 30s (someone correct me if I'm wrong on the damage there) and she controls space better than a lot of the other characters. That's not even all the reasons but the point is that argument is assumptive and wrong.

AND I agree with you about Kitana, that's what makes her good, but how many people were saying she's top 10 before SF? That was my point. lol

 

[Bomborge]

AND I agree with you about Kitana, that's what makes her good, but how many people were saying she's top 10 before SF? That was my point. lol

To be fair though, Sonic Fox picked her up after she was buffed. Just as well, with Sonic Fox playing her, a lot of her potential was shown which helped people realize how good she actually was because I remember reading how she was just mid tier after the patch before she started being showcased by top players in tourneys. The whole Sonic Fox makes her look good argument kind of falls flat to me. Personally, I feel she is not in top 10, but I can see why people would think so.

 

[errormacro7]

To be fair though, Sonic Fox picked her up after she was buffed. Just as well, with Sonic Fox playing her, a lot of her potential was shown which helped people realize how good she actually was because I remember reading how she was just mid tier after the patch before she started being showcased by top players in tourneys. The whole Sonic Fox makes her look good argument kind of falls flat to me. Personally, I feel she is not in top 10, but I can see why people would think so.

No, I'm not saying that SF makes her look good AT ALL. After the buffs, Kitana became a very good character, but was kind of overlooked. My point is that some peole are saying she's top 10 mostly after what SF accomplished with her at ESL and EVO. Nobody was saying that before. IMO she's outside of top 10, I don't see her as top 10 character myself because there are 10 characters that are better than her. I'd say Kitana is top 15 or something like that.

 

[Predannok]

calling 21122 a 25/25/25/25 coin flip string is absolutely ridiculous. Its good, sure, but if you knew the matchup (which you clearly don't, because then you would know that there is no gap in 21122xxEX grenade to armor, and you can let yourself out by taking the last hit) you would know that certain cancel points are much more preferable than others making the read much more manageable. You get a full combo punish if you guess right, so it's a dangerous a game for EB himself.

I wasn't talking about armoring through 21122 ex grenade but about armoring the followup... And many many times EB wont cancel it at all and just finish the whole string baiting a reaction and when uve been conditioned to that ull get either the suprise command grab cancel after the first or 2nd hit or ex grenade after the 2nd to final hit. You saying its not a 25/25/25/25 is ridiculous "cuz certain cancel points are much more preferable" acting like The EB player wont bet on you knowing that and baiting a reaction due to that.

 

[Youphemism]

AND I agree with you about Kitana, that's what makes her good, but how many people were saying she's top 10 before SF? That was my point. lol

Well this is just one post from 2 days after the patch was released that gave her a ton of buffs

Other than quan chi and maybe kung lao. I disagree with the rest because there's a set game plan to get around them but In my opinion no character before broken ass Tanya could zone like a god and keep away like a goddess. She basically frustrates u until u get punished. Like kitana has no need to take any risks in her zoning game and just wait to punish u. I'm not saying she was top 5 but she was at least B in my opinion A but right now she is definitely top 10, in my opinion top 5

I'm sure there are more.

 

[errormacro7]

Well this is just one post from 2 days after the patch was released that gave her a ton of buffs


I'm sure there are more.

Top 5? Holy shit, I believe that... not even the Kitana community would agree that she's top 5, but alright. lol

 

[Youphemism]

Top 5? Holy shit, I believe that... not even the Kitana community would agree that she's top 5, but alright. lol

Lol why would they? They're known for being downplayers remember

 

[errormacro7]

Lol why would they? They're known for being downplayers remember

Let them be. According to a friend of mine, downplaying is a survival instinct.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Kitana is the bottom end of top 10 or maybe just outside top 10 imao. She's a very solid high mid tier to low high tier character, especially mournful which is being heavily slept on. My picks would be

1. Tempest Kung Lao
2. Hunter/ Laser Shooter Predator
3. Bone Shaper Shinnock
4. SQ D'vorah
5. Kabu Jutsu Tanya
6. Storm Raiden
7. All variations? Cassie
8. Summoner Quan
9. Mournful/Royal Storm Kitana
10. Marksman Erron Black

Basically the 5-10 slots are pretty interchangeable. But I feel very confident in the top 5 provided.

 

[wsj515]

I wasn't talking about armoring through 21122 ex grenade but about armoring the followup... And many many times EB wont cancel it at all and just finish the whole string baiting a reaction and when uve been conditioned to that ull get either the suprise command grab cancel after the first or 2nd hit or ex grenade after the 2nd to final hit. You saying its not a 25/25/25/25 is ridiculous "cuz certain cancel points are much more preferable" acting like The EB player wont bet on you knowing that and baiting a reaction due to that.

The average TYM poster is content in not learning match ups and preach based on surface impressions

I always forget to heed my own words, this discussion is pointless

 

[Predannok]

I always forget to heed my own words, this discussion is pointless

Yep All surface impressions Ive never played against gud EB players on my friendslist, I dont even know what the training room is or what "record AI" or "reversal" means...Hell i dont even OWN this game.
Indeed a pointless discussion.

 

[Schuyler]

Yeh i didn't think that list was ordered and I agree with it mostly but some characters could possibly not be considered top 10 like Tanya, raiden, and maybe jax. Since the nerfs raiden and Tanya lost a lot of their threat factor imo, only MoS raiden is being played and it's much easier to deal with over the rest of the list and Tanya seems like she got hit like black Adam from injustice. She's still good but has to work a lot harder than before and she just seems more limited overall than kitana imo. Like I said, since kitana has mournful (which is a very solid variation), I think that covers her matchups that she has trouble in RS and vice versa. She builds meter very well, does unbreakable damage (which later on I'm sure we will see more use of), great mobility, high combo damage, and good pressure/chip traps (mournful), as well as overhead fullscreen projectiles (mournful), if that's not a top 10 character in a fighting game then idk what is. I also noticed you didn't list LK in your list, why not?

Tanyas still really good in pryomancer and kobo jutsu. Do not under estimate her cause of the nerfs cause nrs did a good job normalizing her. She still has some of the best mobility in the game but its not as crazy. Tanyas b1 string is still really good. Shes defiantly still top 10 and shes actually in my top 5. Some could say her kobo jutsu variation needs a slight nerf actually. She does good 1 bar damnge with arguably the best pressure in the game and pryomancer is just a zoning machine with the fire balls and air teleports. Raiden is still really good to. He still gets that high damnge in the corner hes just really mixup reliant I dont play him so I cant say. And all the chacrters I named I actually have learned and played and I havent learned liu kang so i cant really say and his tournament results dont really say anything to me.

 

[RNLDRGN]

Sonicfox sure plays some part as representing those chars in tournies but u guys are really ignoring the fact that :

Erron black has the best CMD in the game

Predator has a 23 frames launcher that goes about 3/4 of the screen which nets him easy 30% combos and an extremely long reach b2 which is a High but due to the games design will hit u unless u dont block or are female

Erron black has a 25/25/25/25 coin flip string which if u have no meter and he ends it with mb sand grenade u have to eat the follow up mixup

Predator gets 50% in the corner and very easy 40%+ midscreen for one bar

Erron black has more tick throws than the actual "grapplers" in this game 12 or 13

Predator HQT has the best zoning in the game covering the whole screen And can cancel those same zoning tools for pressure upclose

Predator pretty much wont let u wakeup unless ur Jax or u have a teleport

Predator has better corner trap game than Sub zero

Predator does much more damage with the stupid unblockable throw into trap setups

Erron has been nerfed quite gud And the NerfBat will soon strike the Apex Predator.

These points about Predator aren't wrong... they're just a little exaggerated. I'm not disagreeing with you, just your level of saying how good Predator is. That said, he's a really good character, but not top 5 IMO. Top 10, sure.

 

[trufenix]

But characters like Shinnok are only in discussion because of the Boneshaper variation, not for Necro and Imposter.

True, but it changes nothing. Shinnok is still a top ten character, wether he does it with one variation or three.

 

[FrankOceansWaifu]

Ok what's the deal with Jax? He's SO easily top 10 in ALL 3 variations, yet he only has 55 votes as of right now.I honestly don't know why. Is it his execution? What is keeping people from picking this character up and wrecking shit at a major?

 

[Predannok]

Ok what's the deal with Jax? He's SO easily top 10 in ALL 3 variations, yet he only has 55 votes as of right now.I honestly don't know why. Is it his execution? What is keeping people from picking this character up and wrecking shit at a major?

he has one mayor problem : hes only launcher doesnt really launch consistently after certain strings like f21, or 11, basically making the run cancel f21 followup whiffing alot of times While u just wasted a bar. And agianst females u really are forced to 29% combos midscreen cuz f21 follup will miss most of the time ( there are some little tricks to make it more consistent but still Bullshit).

You also really need to get the execution down for his midscreen combo its one of the hardest if not the hardest midscreen combo that doesnt even do big damage considering he spends one bar for it, unless hes spaced right where he can do 46% midscreen into corner combo.

Also low profiling is a problem, people like lui kang or johnny cage can low profile hes f2 with thier d4/d3.

Tyrant , Jupiter have done quit gud with Him i also saw DJT use him.

 

[FrankOceansWaifu]

he has one mayor problem : hes only launcher doesnt really launch consistently after certain strings like f21, or 11, basically making the run cancel f21 followup whiffing alot of times While u just wasted a bar. And agianst females u really are forced to 29% combos midscreen cuz f21 follup will miss most of the time ( there are some little tricks to make it more consistent but still Bullshit).

You also really need to get the execution down for his midscreen combo its one of the hardest if not the hardest midscreen combo that doesnt even do big damage considering he spends one bar for it, unless hes spaced right where he can do 46% midscreen into corner combo.

Also low profiling is a problem, people like lui kang or johnny cage can low profile hes f2 with thier d4/d3.

Tyrant , Jupiter have done quit gud with Him i also saw DJT use him.

I don't know much but how is Pumped Up? What I'm seeing is the gotcha grab covering his mid screen combos because of the great meterless damage.
How viable are EX ground pound set ups? Though I'm not a pro player so I'd like to hear some thoughts on that.

 

[Predannok]

I don't know much but how is Pumped Up? What I'm seeing is the gotcha grab covering his mid screen combos because of the great meterless damage.EX ground How viable are EX ground pound set ups? Though I'm not a pro player so I'd like to hear some thoughts on that.

All is var are pretty gud just different gameplan, He gets free 13% damage After basically every knockdown, very similar to tremors quake and the gotcha grab in pumped up is 7 frames and yeah it grants the best meterless damage off of the 3 vars And a restand thats +3 negating wakeups(very effective against some1 like scorpion or ermac whos teleport only have armor on wakeup) check out @karaokelove's Pumped up guide for more detailed info.

 

[RoboCop]

And he can get 30%+ off of a 6-frame starter, allowing him to punish almost any blocked moves in the game. Those he can't punish can still be frame-trapped with 11 or any 1-based string into Energy Wave.