Throws

[TakeAChance]

If you get a single trade then that's it there's no priority and you can put the rest down to mistiming or spacing/travel time. If either move has a priority they should never trade

I've never had the throw and a normal trade. I didn't make sure it was iron tight. I had to leave the house. I had Kano in the corner (me) and had kabal do 221 (-2) into his 111.

I could get kanos reversal back throw to beat it. Not consistently but it would. I need to test it further and I will once I get home. Feel free to look into it.

 

[TakeAChance]

Is the hurtbox on normals throw-able? Because in that video with noob getting vacuumed by Kano that's how it looks. If that's how the hurtboxes work that's stupid as fuck.

They are.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Yeah, but this particular MK meta revolves much more heavily around this particular guess scenario. Tekken has 50/50's, sure, but they don't dominate the game at all.

This game is pretty much about establishing your own strike/throw situation with powerful mid staggers into throws that are self-contained 50/50's which usually set you up into oki where you're very likely to face the same situation a moment later. A big distinction between good and bad characters in this game is in how efficiently you can set up a strike/throw scenario, because most characters can be played very safely but fewer characters have the overwhelming stagger potential to perform this kind of offense.

And then there's characters like Sonya with separate issues too, obviously.

As I play more characters I'm beginning to understand this more and more.
You have players who play different games in this game. The generally successful MK11 game is exactly what you just said. Scorpion, Liu, Jax, all these players who have these staggers are all playing their own game. Then you have characters who need to work their ass off, with insanely weak mid-range game, and struggle to get positioning to create the scenario you mentioned above. Then you have the clear top tier 50/50 types who play another game entirely and don't even need to rely on it but can utilize it when needed.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Well timed jump ins option select wake up options, so not really.

The only situation that this happens is from safe jumps where a character is like +45 on hit. In most situations, someone jumping gets beat by up 2 (unless your character’s up 2 sucks ass) and for crossups generally speaking fwd roll escapes. Jump ins are strong on oki but they definitely don’t option select, its only a few select cases.

 

[trufenix]

Is the hurtbox on normals throw-able? Because in that video with noob getting vacuumed by Kano that's how it looks. If that's how the hurtboxes work that's stupid as fuck.

In order to keep this from turning into MKX where literally everything beat throws, they made it so throws grab everything active, even if its low, high mid, whatever. Then they gave them huge hit boxes and tiny hurt boxes so they never miss. It looks stupid, but the alternative is an even shittier throw meta again, see: MKX.

 

[TakeAChance]

In order to keep this from turning into MKX where literally everything beat throws, they made it so throws grab everything active, even if its low, high mid, whatever. Then they gave them huge hit boxes and tiny hurt boxes so they never miss. It looks stupid, but the alternative is an even shittier throw meta again, see: MKX.

Did MKX have a throw meta? I know it had a 50/50 one but never a throw meta. This is just unheard of in terms of throws and anyone that says otherwise....is kidding themselves. What other game have you ever played where someone can throw you out of a low profile poke from midscreen?

 

[Vhozite]

In order to keep this from turning into MKX where literally everything beat throws, they made it so throws grab everything active, even if its low, high mid, whatever. Then they gave them huge hit boxes and tiny hurt boxes so they never miss. It looks stupid, but the alternative is an even shittier throw meta again, see: MKX.

I didn't really play MKX so i don't really know what was good or bad about that game. However you should not be able to throw someone outside of the throw hitbox touching the main body. Having it as is just makes them too strong outside of their intended use as a point-blank block beater.

 

[TakeAChance]

So, I've tested it.

Throws 100% out prioritize all normals. It's kind of rediculous what it does to some characters.


For Example Cassie.

If Cassie F4 staggers a character (like they all do) they can reversal throw (9f). This can essentially be option selected because it's only going to come out in a true gap, or during a stagger.

Cassie in this situation cannot f4, F2, B2, D1(whiff), D3, or D4 or they ALLLLL get destroyed by the throw. She either has to read the throw and duck it, delay her pressure so his throw whiffs (because it will IF she doesn't hit a button to feed it), or jump.

This is huge.

 

[Gaxkang]

As I play more characters I'm beginning to understand this more and more.
You have players who play different games in this game. The generally successful MK11 game is exactly what you just said. Scorpion, Liu, Jax, all these players who have these staggers are all playing their own game. Then you have characters who need to work their ass off, with insanely weak mid-range game, and struggle to get positioning to create the scenario you mentioned above. Then you have the clear top tier 50/50 types who play another game entirely and don't even need to rely on it but can utilize it when needed.

Yup that is a thing in this...characters are playing different games instead of the same one.

 

[trufenix]

Did MKX have a throw meta? I know it had a 50/50 one but never a throw meta. This is just unheard of in terms of throws and anyone that says otherwise....is kidding themselves. What other game have you ever played where someone can throw you out of a low profile poke from midscreen?

No, throws outprioritizung normals is not unheard of. Tons of games use throw strike block as a 2/3 option select rather than prs because then guess what, throws actually get used. Even if it wasn't the case, since when does nrs and mk conform to anything? Variations? Breakaway? Interactions? Scorpion's teleport? Block button?

The mechanic is fine. The issue here is mk11 has HILARIOUSLY oversized throw boxes so that unlike their last 3 games or so throws are a hugely relevant part of the meta. I think it's intentional. Every single character has a throw crushing blow, locked and loaded, all you have to do is throw both ways. Why are you against it exactly? Does this game need more ways for the fucked characters to get fucked against characters with superior buttons?

You really feel sorry for Cassie players who never ever ever have to approach if they don't want to while kollector and kotal and Shao Kahn are so fucked they can't even win the shadow fight on the loading screen?

 

[trufenix]

I didn't really play MKX so i don't really know what was good or bad about that game. However you should not be able to throw someone outside of the throw hitbox touching the main body. Having it as is just makes them too strong outside of their intended use as a point-blank block beater.

Again, the box is there. A jump kick would hit you, a projectile would hit you. People only think it's bullshit cause it's throws.

Go read up on throw immune from mkx or either injustice, go read up on the ice clone hit boxes from mkx. Or just play against the ai in any mk before mk9 and get throw looped for having the guts to stand still and press a button next to the ai.

It's stupid mk logic, but it's still logic.