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Thoughts on current state of tournament character selection (Adam/Aquaman)

Clark L.

F1 ftw.
That Joker match was hype, but people acting like it was all three characters.
I mean aqua and ba were used a lot, but in the context of top 8 other games are like that. You have the same people playing a few times (so obviously your gonna see the same character in more than 1 match,) and your not gonna see the whole roster in top 8. It doesn't happen in others, and is certainly not gonna happen in i2. And I get what people are saying because black adam and aqua were used by multiple people, but damn.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Character diversity is all what a game should be about, ppl also talk about how Jack and Hwoarang are mostly in Top 8s from US tekken, ppl tend to forget that Tekken character diversity is based around country preference, you will not see a Jin or Kazuya in Top 8 on a US tournament because US themselves hardly play any mishimas, they play more, Law, Jack, Dragunov, Hwoarang, Feng, King, Claudio, Xiao and so on, the easiest characters to play.

Japan and Korea are more likely to have Mishimas in Top 8 because they play mishimas the most compared to the entire globe.

Kuma is a character extremely popular in UK

Injustice in the last two majors had a good shown of character diversity, despite the amount of Deadshots at CB and the Trait Adams at CEO, game is looking gud IMO.
 

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
Little off topic here.

There really isn't much of difference between injustice and mortal kombat when it comes to gameplay but injustice feels downright inferior.

After getting bored by that pathetically low tier bland character known as Wonder Woman in injustice 2 I went back to play some MKXL.

The visuals, size of characters, zoomed in screen and fast pace kombat is leagues and voids better than I2.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
To me the problem is NRS choosing who they want to be good and creating a top tier and you can see it. they didn't give joker a new 8 frame far reaching starter and over 500 damage off an easy hit confirm they gave it to who they wanted to be top tier. They don't try to balance the game so everyone is fair they go in thinking (let's make sure aquaman superman black Adam and batman are great) then they go from there. That's why the same 5 characters keep winning and this isn't gonna change
I think it's more of: "Hey these characters have movies coming out, let's highlight them with great tools" + most of the top tiers being legacy characters. Also DLC power creep.

I don't think you're wrong, but I don't think it's nearly as intentionally nefarious to upset the balance.
 

SunsetBlvd

Proven Nappa GOD, 100% VERIFIED Best Nappa NA
people continue complaining
i'm noticing this multiple times in replies to my op so let me try to be very clear---- i am not complaining. this post was most concerned with the reaction i saw from the audience, in particular how disinterested they seemed when impressive play by top players was right in front of them, all while waving dopey black adam masks and booing. they cheered a few times, mostly when whiteboi was on the stage. then afterwards seeing guys like pig on twitter saying, essentially, what i am now.

i understand this is the internet and everyone assumes you are whining. unfortunately that's just not the case. i like I2. however, right now there is a problem with these characters, or at least a great many people perceive there to be, and i'm just making a post about it..
 

SunsetBlvd

Proven Nappa GOD, 100% VERIFIED Best Nappa NA
I am also certain that if Aquaman or Black Adam ever get normalized, other buffed characters will take their place.
this isn't something you need to guess about. it's simple- if you were to make adam and aquaman the two worst characters in the game right this second (i'm not saying thats the answer, it's an example), what would the rest of the tier list look like?

superman and batman would be good, like they are now. neither is currently in adam/aquaman territory and no one is really claiming that. atrocitus will be around for a few more tournaments (he's already showing cracks, trust me). then what?

then it's deadshot, catwoman, or whatever, and a huge list of highly debatable, relatively balanced characters...
 
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RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
superman and batman would be good, like they are now. neither is currently in adam/aquaman territory and no one is really claiming that. atrocitus will be around for a few more tournaments (he's already showing cracks, trust me).
I think a lot of people see Batman as a top 3 character. While Aquaman might give him some trouble, he has no glaring weaknesses and his trait is still absolutely ridiculous. He doesn't have the damage Adam does, but Adam doesn't have nearly the mixup potential Bats does.

Plenty of people (myself included) still think Atrocitus is incredibly strong (there were 5 in top 24 at CEO), you just cannot abuse his puddle mixup in trait with more and more ppl punishing with MB B3. Watch Coach Steve's use of blood vomit (esp in corner). It's such a great safe pressure tool and gives hilarious corner damage.

Still, regardless of order, I think everyone agrees the top 4 right now is: Bats, Black Adam, Atrocitus, Aqua.
 

SunsetBlvd

Proven Nappa GOD, 100% VERIFIED Best Nappa NA
Atrocitus is incredibly strong
i'm obviously not playing in tournaments, but i have mained atro since day 1. yes, i watched coach steve. he is an amazing player. he got 4 whole vomits off trait shot > f3 in the corner!

but this is meaningless. you can just push block any time when atro has trait out to make the scary cat disappear right away. if you were watching closely, you'd notice that every time an atro (madzin, tekken master, etc.) ran into any player that abused this liberally, they lost.

quote me on this- atro is not top 4 and tekken master will drop him.
 
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CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
i'm obviously not playing in tournaments, but i have mained atro since day 1. yes, i watched coach steve. he is an amazing player. he got 4 whole vomits off trait shot > f3 in the corner!

but this is meaningless. i'm going to tell you how to beat atro, and it is very simple: when the scary cat comes out, you hold your down button and then simultaneously press your back button. the trick is you have to hold both of those buttons down for a little while. that's tough for a lot of people online. sometimes you might even have to hold both buttons down for 5, maybe even 6 seconds. it gets really spooky because he has 2 deadly "50/50s". f13 could be f1 nado (no one ever does this though) and f223 could be f22 nado. of course, you could just eat the overhead for a tiny amount of damage and and run out his trait. or just block the nado on reaction like everyone will be doing in a week.

but don't worry, if all of that is too hard, you can just push block any time when atro has trait out to make the scary cat disappear right away. if you were watching closely, you'd notice that every time an atro (madzin, tekken master, etc.) ran into any player that abused this liberally, they lost.

quote me on this- atro is not top 4 and tekken master will drop him.
You were talking about Black Adam being OP, but then when Atrocitus loses to an absolute top tier counterpick like BA, it's "Well Atrocitus isn't that good"

If you nerf the absolute top of the cast without toning him down, you will probably see just as much Atrocitus as you're seeing Aquaman now.
 

SunsetBlvd

Proven Nappa GOD, 100% VERIFIED Best Nappa NA
If you nerf the absolute top of the cast without toning him down, you will probably see just as much Atrocitus as you're seeing Aquaman now.
if atro needs nerfs, nerf atro. i'm not defending the character, if i were proven wrong about him then nerf the fuck out of him. i was actually trying to expose him tbh. i would bet actual money that he is about to drunkenly stumble down the tier list and then wake up with a hangover and many regrets somewhere in the middle.
 

SunsetBlvd

Proven Nappa GOD, 100% VERIFIED Best Nappa NA
please for the love of all that is holy remember this post. when everything i said will happen actually happens (and it will happen soon), i can then feel like the true champion that i am and make the faces in that gif irl while i watch a replay of madzin geting 3-0 by sonic. also instead of looking up gifs of an overrated basketball player, you should be in the lab working on what i just told you cuz if you read my post and didn't understand why that cripples atro, you got some work to do.
 
I'm my opinion I think we should wait metas shift. All the characters being used now are all on the easier side Deadshot, atrocious, all IGAU top and high tiers. Let's wait as seen at CEO other characters can dominate. For all we know by Evo or after characters like fate,storm,Robin,crow,ivy,Grodd can all show up and be at the top. But like every other fighting game what is cheap and easy dominates at first.

For example SF5 S1 Nash and Ken dominated tournaments and as months went on characters like Nash, Vega, Sim all fell of while others such as Cammy, Chun li, Mika, Karin stated to stand out.

I think we should wait and see maybe after Evo before passing judgment on characters yet. I hope that's NRS plan I don't want rapid changes I rather players adapt and if still to prominent then Nerf.
 

Skedar70

Noob
I believe the lack of diversity is mostly because the game is new and many characters are undiscovered. The top players went on with what was known from the first game and only a few dared to use other characters which were also in the beta (Atrocitus). We did see whiteboy using Scarecrow because he took the time to explore the character and grind games which is something that the other top players just didn't want to do or were too lazy to so they stuck to the familiar.

I don't think this is a tier picking thing since tiers aren't even defined yet.

Another issue is that people go with the wave of opinions instead of forming their own. Some will listen "hey black adam is the best in the game" so they will follow this opinion and pick black adam instead of exploring other characters. Or they will hear "hey black canary is bad" and they will stay away from the character instead of trying it out for themselves.
 

SunsetBlvd

Proven Nappa GOD, 100% VERIFIED Best Nappa NA
For all we know by Evo or after characters like fate,storm,Robin,crow,ivy,Grodd can all show up and be at the top

For example SF5 S1 Nash and Ken dominated tournaments and as months went on characters like Nash, Vega, Sim all fell of while others such as Cammy, Chun li, Mika, Karin stated to stand out.
pig of the hut just tweeted that fate is a waste of time in tournaments. dragon played ivy at combobreaker. he played aquaman at ceo. i am not as good as those players. i trust that those players "put in the time", and that a solid month and two tournaments is enough for them to make good judgements, so i'm going with them on that. robin has had success and he is generally considered good but not top 5 (by me).

on your other point, the nash dominance in s1 of SFV was infiltration, period. the only other nash in existence in tournaments was bonchan and he wasn't successful in s1. nash disappeared completely after evo, and so did infiltration. that was like halfway through s1. and everyone said chun li was top tier from the beginning. karin, mika, the same. cammy always flies under the radar for some reason. but what you said in your post is genuinely incorrect.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
To me the problem is NRS choosing who they want to be good and creating a top tier and you can see it. they didn't give joker a new 8 frame far reaching starter and over 500 damage off an easy hit confirm they gave it to who they wanted to be top tier. They don't try to balance the game so everyone is fair they go in thinking (let's make sure aquaman superman black Adam and batman are great) then they go from there. That's why the same 5 characters keep winning and this isn't gonna change
^^^ This.
Nothing will ever make fighting Batman or dealing with the J2 that invalidates almost anything I can do enjoyable for me.
 
Someone, please, destroy every Scarecrow player with batman and deadshot so we can get over this fake bandwagon. Pleaaase.
If it were so simple do you think someone at CEO would've done it? Do you think Foreverking purposefully gave up his chance at 20,000 dollars just to make you cranky on TYM. Do you know a better Batman player?

Do you think Slayer gave up first place at a major deliberately to troll you?
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
To me it's just time to take the inexcusable broken stuff out that somehow stayed from the first game, like Superman -2 ice breath for example. Doctor fate is supposed to be the character with a "safe" special (-9) because everything he has is punishable. Something like Superman ice breath is 1/5 as punishable as something like doctor fate push and it's leaves you right in there face against certain characters for another f2

Non-existent character balance right now. Horrible MU numbers and even more horrible braindead character
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
i disagree. outside of the absolute top tiers, how is the balance "non-existent'?
Just gave a perfect example. Superman does safe special better than the safe special character (doctor fate). Doesn't seem right to me because black Adam does safe special better too at -3