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This Is A Hunt I've Longed For: Cheetah General Discussion

bishbash

bishbash

Magic as easy as 1 2 standing3
iAteUrLife said:
Can we put together a Cheetah WU punish thread against the whole cast? I know the games been out for awhile but some wakeups like blue beetles give me a hard time punishing.
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People are still waking up against your Cheetah? I find everyone just delays wake up at this point. It's very annoying
 
JesterSMX

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
iAteUrLife said:
Can we put together a Cheetah WU punish thread against the whole cast? I know the games been out for awhile but some wakeups like blue beetles give me a hard time punishing.
Click to expand...
I've been thinking about the same thing. For beetle, after ending in dbf1 I dash forward and immediately jump back. If he wakes up j3 while jumping back will catch him for full combo. If he doesn't he gets up for free. He's one of the tougher one because I can't figure out how to cover all options. @Espio Any thoughts?
 
Rabbit

Rabbit

thugs bunny
iAteUrLife said:
I know the games been out for awhile but some wakeups like blue beetles give me a hard time punishing.
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if you know the blue beetle is going to wakeup with shield bash you can low profile it with d3 and punish with f3. you can do it with a lunge cancel as well but you are putting yourself at risk with wakeup d1.
 
iAteUrLife

iAteUrLife

VinD
JesterSMX said:
I've been thinking about the same thing. For beetle, after ending in dbf1 I dash forward and immediately jump back. If he wakes up j3 while jumping back will catch him for full combo. If he doesn't he gets up for free. He's one of the tougher one because I can't figure out how to cover all options. @Espio Any thoughts?
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Ill have to try that.
 
iAteUrLife

iAteUrLife

VinD
Well guys so far starfire hasn't been that bad of a mu as i thought. Her d2 and wakeup game are really good once u stay pinning her.

Also, I've been using j2 alot more in cases i dont care too much for the crossup and would rather take my guaranteed plus 5 or more frames to get an easy s2 tic or f23 1+3. The active frames on the ji2 help alot too when air to airing. What are you guys thoughts?
 
JesterSMX

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
iAteUrLife said:
Well guys so far starfire hasn't been that bad of a mu as i thought. Her d2 and wakeup game are really good once u stay pinning her.

Also, I've been using j2 alot more in cases i dont care too much for the crossup and would rather take my guaranteed plus 5 or more frames to get an easy s2 tic or f23 1+3. The active frames on the ji2 help alot too when air to airing. What are you guys thoughts?
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A deep j3 is too plus to tic from so I use that the most. In the heat of the moment j2 just isn't reliable for me. I either do it too early or too late. I was working on an os for some forward moving wakeups (beetle, deadshot, etc.) where after dbf1 you dash up... nuetral jump... then df2. If they wakeup they get hit with divekick and if not I'm at least +5 with a j2.
 
Ns_Brutalmileena

Ns_Brutalmileena

Wheres Mileener!BRUH
A few gimmicks working extremely well in super long sets of conditioning my opponent***
CAUTION!!!

1. 1,1 ia ex dive(train 1,1,D3)

2. 1,1 D3(train 1,1,2)

3. After a f2,3,1+3 restand jumpin 1, f2,3 1+3 restand again(train jumpin 1 into low tech throw )

4. Random grabs

5.after f2,3,1+3 restand jumping 1 then 2, ia ex dive (train restand after jump in) real fake but works blocked 2 is negative, but alot of people I've played think it's a f2 attempt and wait for follow up lol!

6. F2 on block into ia ex dive not technically a mix, but worked on alot of people(when your getting crazy respect,and have life lead)

7. Stagger raw 2 into ia ex dive(def not real)

8. Best one = f2,3,1+3 restand jumpin 1 low tech throw(d,b 1)when they start standing, restand over and over lol!

***Yes all these are not real, can be d1 or / hard read etc etc, but I have crazy success with them in super long sets, and the best part f2,3,1+3 restand you start getting it free.

****LIKE STATED THESE TAKE HEAVY conditioning lol!

~~Even just to condition them to not be poke happy on jumping 1, also all of these work with other jumping buttons really.

***Finally all of these aren't supposed to be used together, but if you are fighting and opponent who understands her meta ( I know alot of people still don't lol!) and there blocking every thing, while you got a life lead go for these (MKX 50/50 boyz) measures once in awhile lol!
 
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Espio

Espio

Kokomo
JesterSMX said:
I've been thinking about the same thing. For beetle, after ending in dbf1 I dash forward and immediately jump back. If he wakes up j3 while jumping back will catch him for full combo. If he doesn't he gets up for free. He's one of the tougher one because I can't figure out how to cover all options. @Espio Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Well the thing is you're not gonna cover all options in general because of the nature of how wake ups work in general.

As was mentioned previously, sweep can go under shield bash but low stab punishes sweep for full combo so there's that. Mid screen just back dashing is a good option, throw is sometimes effective, especially if you sniff out a command grab too.

The other thing about down 3 going under it is if I mix up my wake up timing, it still loses so it's not free by any means.

Really though as Beetle, I don't wake up often unless I see her doing meterless forward 3 or trying to dash up strings and stuff. She either burns a bar to stuff it, jumps back and whiffs or I block her sweep and either get a check or possible punish.

Delayed wake up, pushblock, not waking up, shield bash, low stab, back dash, wake up throw. Some of these aren't wake up options but when she's pressuring you up close and spends a bar of meter on MB forward 3, I like to send her out. Beetle builds meter really well against her and the oki scenario is very tricky if the Beetle player knows the match up and to abuse her lack of range properly.

The only reason why I feel like Cheetah/Beetle is even instead of her outright losing is her good oki options and lunge going under some projectiles. Her answers for his pressure and footsies are meh and his mobility is in lock step with hers. Air projectiles of his caliber can snipe her reliably too. The other thing is jump 1 with Beetle is a super consistent air to air option against lunge in jump normals, even handles jump 3 well.
 
bishbash

bishbash

Magic as easy as 1 2 standing3
Ns_Brutalmileena said:
A few gimmicks working extremely well in super long sets of conditioning my opponent***
CAUTION!!!

1. 1,1 ia ex dive(train 1,1,D3)

2. 1,1 D3(train 1,1,2)

3. After a f2,3,1+3 restand jumpin 1, f2,3 1+3 restand again(train jumpin 1 into low tech throw )

4. Random grabs

5.after f2,3,1+3 restand jumping 1 then 2, ia ex dive (train restand after jump in) real fake but works blocked 2 is negative, but alot of people I've played think it's a f2 attempt and wait for follow up lol!

6. F2 on block into ia ex dive not technically a mix, but worked on alot of people(when your getting crazy respect,and have life lead)

7. Stagger raw 2 into ia ex dive(def not real)

8. Best one = f2,3,1+3 restand jumpin 1 low tech throw(d,b 1)when they start standing, restand over and over lol!

***Yes all these are not real, can be d1 or / hard read etc etc, but I have crazy success with them in super long sets, and the best part f2,3,1+3 restand you start getting it free.

****LIKE STATED THESE TAKE HEAVY conditioning lol!

~~Even just to condition them to not be poke happy on jumping 1, also all of these work with other jumping buttons really.

***Finally all of these aren't supposed to be used together, but if you are fighting and opponent who understands her meta ( I know alot of people still don't lol!) and there blocking every thing, while you got a life lead go for these (MKX 50/50 boyz) measures once in awhile lol!
Click to expand...

She shines in set play I think when you have the opportunity to condition people. I can see how a lot of what you've mentioned could fly on an opponent as long as you don't throw it out too often. I'd not follow up f231+3 midscreen with a jump attack too often though personally I'd expect the j1 to be pushblocked by anyone even half competent
 
iAteUrLife

iAteUrLife

VinD
Espio said:
Well the thing is you're not gonna cover all options in general because of the nature of how wake ups work in general.

As was mentioned previously, sweep can go under shield bash but low stab punishes sweep for full combo so there's that. Mid screen just back dashing is a good option, throw is sometimes effective, especially if you sniff out a command grab too.

The other thing about down 3 going under it is if I mix up my wake up timing, it still loses so it's not free by any means.

Really though as Beetle, I don't wake up often unless I see her doing meterless forward 3 or trying to dash up strings and stuff. She either burns a bar to stuff it, jumps back and whiffs or I block her sweep and either get a check or possible punish.

Delayed wake up, pushblock, not waking up, shield bash, low stab, back dash, wake up throw. Some of these aren't wake up options but when she's pressuring you up close and spends a bar of meter on MB forward 3, I like to send her out. Beetle builds meter really well against her and the oki scenario is very tricky if the Beetle player knows the match up and to abuse her lack of range properly.

The only reason why I feel like Cheetah/Beetle is even instead of her outright losing is her good oki options and lunge going under some projectiles. Her answers for his pressure and footsies are meh and his mobility is in lock step with hers. Air projectiles of his caliber can snipe her reliably too. The other thing is jump 1 with Beetle is a super consistent air to air option against lunge in jump normals, even handles jump 3 well.
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Can you enlighten me on how to beat blue beetles crossover/non crossover into sweep loop. I swear that shit is so trolly. I had a guy doing it to me over and over. It beat my back dash delay wu and regular wu got shut down
 
Ns_Brutalmileena

Ns_Brutalmileena

Wheres Mileener!BRUH
bishbash said:
She shines in set play I think when you have the opportunity to condition people. I can see how a lot of what you've mentioned could fly on an opponent as long as you don't throw it out too often. I'd not follow up f231+3 midscreen with a jump attack too often though personally I'd expect the j1 to be pushblocked by anyone even half competent
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Oh they do haha lol, I want dat meter! That's what makes me happy because meter advantage is really important for her I feel. If I'm up two bars of meter on you with a life lead dim hit confirm bounce cancels coming for you like 750 damage with trait lol!

What you follow up with bishbash
 
bishbash

bishbash

Magic as easy as 1 2 standing3
Ns_Brutalmileena said:
Oh they do haha lol, I want dat meter! That's what makes me happy because meter advantage is really important for her I feel. If I'm up two bars of meter on you with a life lead dim hit confirm bounce cancels coming for you like 750 damage with trait lol!

What you follow up with bishbash
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Wasting your opponents resource is always nice, Midscreen I usually dash into one of her command grabs, delayed throw, ia dive, d3, b2bf3mb, another f231+3 I like 12dbf1 tick and s2tick too, sometimes I'll just activate trait- nothing too fancy. I once used f23bf3 j3 in practice over and over to practice her conversions from j3 and the rest of the week I kept cancelling every f23 into lunge it was the most annoying thing, other than delayed wake up.

This restand reminds me of the wiffed normal resets in inj1, just because they gave such huge advantage and you knew what was coming, I remember pushblocking every jump in attempt to not have to deal with the unseeable 50/50 that was going to follow it up so I guess I'm conditioned that it's better to just go for mix.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
Something helpful for the Starfire match up: She goes under Starfire's back 3 with her sweep so you can make her waste a bar if you scout it and are tactful enough with your down three.

Starfire can go over our sweep and down 1 though so that's a bit problematic and Starfire is a character that she can't low profile her mid projectile like she can with others so if she has a bar and catches you in pounce stance with the beam, you're gonna get punished with nothing to get out of it. You either cancel out and eat the whole beam or cut your losses and only eat the mid part. That decision is obvious, but it just feeds into the narrative of the usual best options to get around zoning being less potent.

Starfire players like their armor abuse so this works out for us since our MB forward 3, along side strings like 1,1,2 and others are great armor breakers. It really is a nice aid.

Her back 2 is really good anti-air as well. Starfire kind of creates a defensive wall around her and the air. We can hack it, but this match up really puts Cheetah's weaknesses on display in my opinion.


Zhidoreptiloid said:
what is bad MU for cheeatah?
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Green Arrow, Scarecrow, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Harley, Batman and I would stay Starfire are the more obvious ones to be on the look out for overall. Some of the most glaring.


iAteUrLife said:
Can you enlighten me on how to beat blue beetles crossover/non crossover into sweep loop. I swear that shit is so trolly. I had a guy doing it to me over and over. It beat my back dash delay wu and regular wu got shut down
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Delay wake up or just block because sweeps are usually super advantageous on hit so typical tactics don't pan out the same way they normally would. Delay wake up is the universal tactic to evade oki.
 
hatyr

hatyr

ball roll enjoyer.
Espio said:
Green Arrow, Scarecrow, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Harley, Batman and I would stay Starfire are the more obvious ones to be on the look out for overall. Some of the most glaring.
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Do you just push through it on these match-ups or do you use a secondary character? If the latter, I'd be interested in your pick(s).
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
hatyr said:
Do you just push through it on these match-ups or do you use a secondary character? If the latter, I'd be interested in your pick(s).
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I only use Beetle and Vixen seriously. They're both super fun, but also seem to cover each other's bad match ups.

I don't give up or quit on any match ups because match ups can evolve with playing and lab time etc. I still played Hawkgirl versus Zod which was 8-2 at the end of Injustice 1's life. I just need to like the character enough to keep using them and grinding.

I do have strategic preference for Beetle against Wonder Woman, Batman, Starfire, and Scarecrow. On the reverse, I prefer Vixen for Deadshot and some others.

Sometimes comfort levels trump match up theory and match ups anyway so I'll play an unfavorable match up still too if I know it more.
 
iAteUrLife

iAteUrLife

VinD
Soooo about that wakeup punishment guide/thread? Lol some wakeups even on block seem so hars to punish or figure out if u need to dash/walk up and punish or back up and counter with grab (ex: black canary)
 
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