Strategy They patching smoke?

[Zebster]

Which might have been relevant if the second post was anywhere near the first one. Also, you lost a bunch of credibility when you went back into your post and removed the comma.

Also, "jobs"? This is a fighting game. You don't want characters who slaughter some and lose terribly to others. This isn't an MMO.

I removed the comma to avoid confusion, but obviously that wasn't wise. I don't see how you can say the second post isn't near the first one:

I don't know about you but that looks pretty close to each other. Some might even say that they were one after the other.

This is a fighting game, of course you are going to have characters that are good against some and bad against others. Do I need to requote the E. Honda example again?

 

[hardwire]

I removed the comma to avoid confusion, but obviously that wasn't wise. I don't see how you can say the second post isn't near the first one:

I don't know about you but that looks pretty close to each other. Some might even say that they were one after the other.

This is a fighting game, of course you are going to have characters that are good against some and bad against others. Do I need to requote the E. Honda example again?

i would rather you use the tekken mentality where teir list are a joke and every one can beat every one

 

[SZSR]

We can't say that Smoke doesn't have, difficulty in some of his matches and ease in others. Even the best Smoke will have difficulty anti-zoning the best Sub-Zero. We just have to find a way around it.

One strategy i've done is to zone the zoners so that I can bait them with a smoke bomb block their incoming attack and then use one of my combo starters, done deal.

 

[hardwire]

We can't say that Smoke doesn't have, difficulty in some of his matches and ease in others. Even the best Smoke will have difficulty anti-zoning the best Sub-Zero. We just have to find a way around it.

One strategy i've done is to zone the zoners so that I can bait them with a smoke bomb block their incoming attack and then use one of my combo starters, done deal.

actually sub is very easy so far

dont jump in he will use ice clone
wait for him to use his ball shake it
do not jump in he will clone when he does teleport it hits behind first so clone breaks
rinse repeat

i have only been beaten by 2 sub-zeros so far with that plan of attack

now i do get called a spammer lol but hey what ya gonna do with no mix up

 

[Zebster]

actually sub is very easy so far

dont jump in he will use ice clone
wait for him to use his ball shake it
do not jump in he will clone when he does teleport it hits behind first so clone breaks
rinse repeat

i have only been beaten by 2 sub-zeros so far with that plan of attack

now i do get called a spammer lol but hey what ya gonna do with no mix up

Yes but what happens when you face Tom Brady, who doesn't use ice clones and ice balls on Smoke?

 

[fleshmasher]

Changes for Smoke:
pakostevens Paulo Garcia
@ZebiaX enh'd smoke bomb can hit knocked down opp (otg's) for unscaled dam (but won't juggle them), and parry exploit gone.
pakostevens Paulo Garcia
@ZebiaX he can escape towards throws without being punished, wiff'd air teleports land/recover faster, less dam scaling after smoke bombs,

May i ask the people who have the patch how much of this is true?
And can anybody tell me what "parry exploit" means?

 

[SZSR]

actually sub is very easy so far

dont jump in he will use ice clone
wait for him to use his ball shake it
do not jump in he will clone when he does teleport it hits behind first so clone breaks
rinse repeat

i have only been beaten by 2 sub-zeros so far with that plan of attack

now i do get called a spammer lol but hey what ya gonna do with no mix up

Cool, I wasn't asking for tips but good to know (although I kinda had a strategy like that not really the way you put it though).

But it's stuff like this we need to talk about, we've got 27 characters to fight in this game. And the Patch just made things pretty different.

May i ask the people who have the patch how much of this is true?
And can anybody tell me what "parry exploit" means?

Well, enhanced Smoke bomb can indeed hit people off the ground for 10% damage. The Parry exploit (or the juggernaut glitch) was if you did a parry and landed it successful if you duckblocked if they did an attack that could activate your parry (for Smoke a projectile) you could keep parrying without inputting the shake command. Worst was with Johnny Cage though every time he did an xray he would duckblock and then one chip damage would set off his xray again (with zero meter).

i don't really escape throws, so people don't really punish me for them so I can't confirm that. Whiffed air teleport punches do recover quickly so you can set up an offensive more quickly, very useful since Smoke has his fast sweep. Smoke bombs are okay damage during combos, i've only gotten 6% off of an enhanced bomb in the middle of a combo in practice mode, so I can't confirm it.

 

[hardwire]

Yes but what happens when you face Tom Brady, who doesn't use ice clones and ice balls on Smoke?

ill have to come up with somthing when i cross that bridge


hopfully nrs will listen and give smoke a little more mix up

 

[Zebster]

i don't really escape throws, so people don't really punish me for them so I can't confirm that.

Well I can help here. I've escaped throws, and it now works correctly, the opponent no longer recovers instantaneously from the tech and now behaves normally.

 

[ApocaLips]

First off, outzoning sub-zero is simple. At full screen all he can do is throw ice blasts, which a dead chipmonk should have enough reflexes to shake on reaction. The reason the sub matchup is still difficult is because his rushdown is pretty good. Smoke is interesting in that he's one of the only (or maybe the only) characters who can consistently and easily get out of sub's corner pressure (enhanced teleport).

The important things to find out are the damage scaling and the air teleport recovery. Someone should do the combos in the guide and see how much damage they do now compared to what they used to do (old damage values are listed). As for air teleport recovery, we need to find out if you can still punish it on reaction and if it actually leads to anything now.

 

[THTB]

i dont want to hear it from a reptile player

sorry but any one that gets a quick as hell dash that is basicly BASICLY safe on block is rediculase

i dont think its to much to give him 1 useful mixup tool

hell at this point make smoke bomb hit low it hits the ground for god sake


edit: also about your frame advantage

you havent played a good cage have you

we cant even jump away and good luck geting ex shake to activate b4 you get hit.

Reptile's dash, pre-patch, is only unpunishable in lag. Offline, do you know how often Tom Brady and Perfect Legend smacked me for attempting it? Even online, REO annihilates me for doing that...EVEN EX dash I get popped out of. It's not safe at all, and it's made apparent that it's not safe when you play people who actually learn how to punish it.

If you're going to give Smoke a mixup tool, you're going to have to take away some things like Smoke's frame advantage on a launcher and make smoke bomb way less safe, which is a huge sacrifice, tbh.

And getting away from Cage? EX teleport. You don't seem to realize how good this is.

I don't think Smoke is some top tier character...I really don't. That said, that doesn't mean he doesn't have anything good. He has tools...some pretty good ones at that, just other characters have better ones.

 

[Zebster]

i would rather you use the tekken mentality where teir list are a joke and every one can beat every one

Thing is I never played Tekken so I'm not used to more balanced games =p but anyway doesn't it lend itself to be more balanced since it doesn't have all the different archetypes that other FG have like zoners (as far as I know, as again, I haven't played Tekken before)?

And ApocaLips, yes the air teleport does recover a little faster I noticed, others (like DanCock) have noticed as well. I am not sure if it leads to anything though, and it is very likely that it is punishable on reaction (don't have anyone around to test it against at the moment).

Also it's going to be a while before there are any other changes after the hotfix:
"ZebiaX Xavier P
@pakostevens Alright so that made a few of them happy, but there are some that keep asking for a combo string that has a low. What say you?
@pakostevens Paulo Garcia
@ZebiaX after this patch/hotfix the plan is to let the game sit and evolve for awhile (unless something completely broken) is found."

 

[ApocaLips]

Reptile's dash, pre-patch, is only unpunishable in lag. Offline, do you know how often Tom Brady and Perfect Legend smacked me for attempting it? Even online, REO annihilates me for doing that...EVEN EX dash I get popped out of. It's not safe at all, and it's made apparent that it's not safe when you play people who actually learn how to punish it.

If you're going to give Smoke a mixup tool, you're going to have to take away some things like Smoke's frame advantage on a launcher and make smoke bomb way less safe, which is a huge sacrifice, tbh.

And getting away from Cage? EX teleport. You don't seem to realize how good this is.

I don't think Smoke is some top tier character...I really don't. That said, that doesn't mean he doesn't have anything good. He has tools...some pretty good ones at that, just other characters have better ones.

To corroborate, watch the grand finals of CEO. Punished with 2 2 ice blast combo. Smoke can definitely get at least a throw. Now he'll probably be able to get a full combo, or at least a B+2

 

[G4S KT]

Also, Smoke has invisibility...something nobody is utilizing yet.

I do! Haha.

Also, I can't say I agree with the comments about being victimized by rushdown; that hasn't been my experience. I've never had a problem defending against even the most hardened cage/lao/kang up close and waiting for an opening to exploit. You can't beat them at their own game, but that's not the idea.

I'm having trouble understanding the pessimism about him; I've been extremely successful with him against every character. (Except jax, but I have a hard time fighting jax with anyone haha. It's a personal problem)

I agree that smoke does not need a low launcher as well. And, I also sure hope that those buffs come to pass; there's some incredibly significant stuff in there. I will not be mourning the otg smoke bomb.


Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[Scottehs]

So is this patch available to Xbox 360 yet....?

 

[Zebster]

So is this patch available to Xbox 360 yet....?

This isn't the place to ask this.

 

[ApocaLips]

Why not?

The answer is not yet. Next week iirc. Gotta go through microsoft quality assurance.

 

[Ghostal]

I personally have not found a use for invisibility, people can see it, as clearly as I can. They just block and I pop out of it. Enhanced doesn't add bonus damage like reptiles, and in general is a waste of bar in my opinion. I do know reptiles is faster when it comes to getting an invisibility off in combat.

On separate note, I have hard time using the enhanced teleport punch in a combo, Sometimes, I can get 1 or 2 hits, but never 3 hits in most cases. It just takes too damn long before the opponent hits the ground. Most of the time I use it for countering projectiles or whiff'd moves.

 

[G4S KT]

Every once and a while I'll throw an ex invis. It doesnt guarantee anything, its just part of mind games. It's a curveball that you can use to surprise someone. A lot of times a jump back whiff air teleport can cross up and put you in their face before they know what's happened

 

[ApocaLips]

Don't bother trying. It's not worth the meter.

 

[cabibi]

people don't get how invisibility works. Of course your opponent can see it. After learning about smoke's frame advantage on wake up... the whole purpose is to hide from your opponent what you're going to do.... if you have the frame advantage on wake up with a combo, the only way they can escape that is with a wake up attack... they can't block it if you time it right.

The invisibility masks whether or not your blocking, going for the frame advantage combo, or going for a throw. If they don't do a wake up, use your frame advantage and they eat a combo, if they do do a wake up, block it and they eat a combo. It's a 50/50 chance they'll pick right... but the catch is that if they guess wrong, they eat a combo... you don't.

his EX invisibility gives you an advantage in all other situations, not just the wake up game. I find that a high teleport punch to drop and get in works pretty well, as it's hard for your opponent to counter what he can't see.

 

[ApocaLips]

We already know that. The problem is that any time you can safely do it you could be doing something better, or at least much less risky. Toss a smoke bomb for meter, whiff a TP for oki, etc.

Also, idk why you're so obsessed with his 3, D+1, 2 string having frame advantage. Lots of strings cause frame advantage. It's not particularly abusable. And you definitely shouldn't do that on wakeup since it's not a meaty off of anything but a sweep, and if you do it meaty off of a sweep any idiot can wakeup reversal you.

 

[cabibi]

We already know that. The problem is that any time you can safely do it you could be doing something better, or at least much less risky. Toss a smoke bomb for meter, whiff a TP for oki, etc.

Also, idk why you're so obsessed with his 3, D+1, 2 string having frame advantage. Lots of strings cause frame advantage. It's not particularly abusable. And you definitely shouldn't do that on wakeup since it's not a meaty off of anything but a sweep, and if you do it meaty off of a sweep any idiot can wakeup reversal you.

Dude the only thing I'm obsessed with is dumb blondes... I'm just playing the odds when it comes to this game lol. Even if you sweep you risk a pretty high counter. if you try to sweep someone on wake up all they have to do is cross over jump punch and you eat a combo. Sweep looses every time to someone holding up/forward while they're down. I'd rather pad the odds and keep it @ 50/50, block or 321 frame advantage... take the cross up out of the equation. If your opponent thinks your going for the frame advantage every time, he's going to wake up attack every time, and you can block it and punish it... can't really punish a jump cross unless you neutral jump, but that's risky as hell to do on an opponent's wakeup imo.


You're telling me, that you don't have enough time to go into invisibility after you land an EX smoke bomb after an air throw? You don't have time after a quick 214 or even after landing a 40%er?

 

[fleshmasher]

This is really a bit off topic.
How about i make an :en Invisibility thread?

 

[Zebster]

This is really a bit off topic.
How about i make an :en Invisibility thread?

Go ahead.