They Don't Call Me The Main Man For Nothing! - The Lobo General Discussion Thread.

[mikosu]

21 high pump shot is a blockstring that only has a gap to supers. High shot seems to be 0 on block from my testing (Someone confirm that for me.) so I think this blockstring could be pretty abusable. Ending other blockstrings with mid shot is pretty abusable since only 5framez and Flash's uppercut when close seem to punish it. I'm guessing it's -6/7 on block.

Due to the standing frames when a character wakes up high shot is a force block and only escaped by invincible and hurbox-lowering wakeup attacks. It's most easily done after bf2 and the timing isn't hard but less lenient on smaller characters. Makes running oki on Shazam a tiny bit better since MB shot can punish his elduing TP when timed properly. Regular high shot is 2.13% chip and traited high shot is 3.63% chip so it definitely adds up and adds a layer to his mixup for the opponent of "Do I wakeup or not?"

 

[Lord Hollow]

21 high pump shot is a blockstring that only has a gap to supers. High shot seems to be 0 on block from my testing (Someone confirm that for me.) so I think this blockstring could be pretty abusable. Ending other blockstrings with mid shot is pretty abusable since only 5framez and Flash's uppercut when close seem to punish it. I'm guessing it's -6/7 on block.

Due to the standing frames when a character wakes up high shot is a force block and only escaped by invincible and hurbox-lowering wakeup attacks. It's most easily done after bf2 and the timing isn't hard but less lenient on smaller characters. Makes running oki on Shazam a tiny bit better since MB shot can punish his elduing TP when timed properly. Regular high shot is 2.13% chip and traited high shot is 3.63% chip so it definitely adds up and adds a layer to his mixup for the opponent of "Do I wakeup or not?"

Yup. I abuse this when I have no meter. From there, 2,1 has 8 follow up options, based on opponent behavior. I was breaking it down to Chaosphere not too long ago, also. It's -1 on block, +1 on hit. I follow up with standing 3 to Space Hook if they like to hit buttons, or 3 to Low Space/Hook Charge for mix up.

 

[Lord Hollow]

The chain annoyingly whiffs on Catwoman and Killer Frost sometimes if they block it too close. On hit, it can net 35% if he's traited and burned. Not bad for them not blocking. They block, then we start throwing them.
It's basically our f+2,3, minty breath, with way more oki added.

 

[Cage Redfield]

found this super weird corner thing

i have no idea how we can take advantage of it, but maybe you guys can find something with it.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

I donno Cage Redfield. That cross up doesn't even look ambiguous

 

[Cage Redfield]

I donno Cage Redfield. That cross up doesn't even look ambiguous

It's not. The video is just to demonstrate that landing Hook Charge in that combo allows him to place him self in the corner, not to show off some obvious cross-up mix-up that everyone else probably has.

I think, at best, you can do a cross-up face dive from that position, placing the opponent back in the corner and giving you the oki situation Lobo always gets.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

It's not. The video is just to demonstrate that landing Hook Charge in that combo allows him to place him self in the corner, not to show off some obvious cross-up mix-up that everyone else probably has.

I think, at best, you can do a cross-up face dive from that position, placing the opponent back in the corner and giving you the oki situation Lobo always gets.

Can lobo do a tick throw from jumpins ? Could start a beefy corner combo

 

[Cage Redfield]

Can lobo do a tick throw from jumpins ? Could start a beefy corner combo

j1 xx command throw is not really a true tick throw like standing 12 xx command throw is. It'll work, but only if the opponent isn't expecting it/isn't mashing d1.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

j1 xx command throw is not really a true tick throw like standing 12 xx command throw is. It'll work, but only if the opponent isn't expecting it/isn't mashing d1.

Can't you mash d1 out of any tick throw?

 

[Cage Redfield]

Can't you mash d1 out of any tick throw?

normal tick throws are easily evaded, but stuff like d2 xx throw or jump in into throw aren't really "tick throws". Like, you can walk out of those versions, where as you have to backdash or jump out of 12 xx throw. Lobo's jump 1 is the only jump-in that you can use for this thing, and it's - on block, so it's very easy to just disrespect stuff like that. 12 is +4 on block, so you can't just mash out a combo in response to that kind of tick throw. It's weird explaining it, but basically they (d2 xx throw or jump 1 xx throw) aren't actual tick throws, those are just doing - on block attacks into a throw, looking like a tick throw, when it's not.

 

[MashPotatoTower]

stuff

Dat cancel advantage tho. 1man can tell you all about it

 

[Cage Redfield]

So I messed around to see if there was any way to get out of 21 xx high shot and found that you can easily backdash before high shot comes out.

not many characters can actually punish Lobo (I've tested that 9 characters can punish it, not sure about MMH since I don't have him), but a huge portion can either pressure Lobo afterward/begin their zoning game after backdashing.

Characters that can punish 21 xx high shot by backdashing:

Spoiler

Flash: Lightning Charge MB for a full combo, Uppercut for easier punish
Lobo: Hook Charge
Zod: trait bite or slash
Batgirl: bat-wheel
Aquaman: f2 1+3
Deathstroke: quick shot
Batman: trait into full combo

DD and Lex can absorb the pump shot and full combo punish.

A good chunk of characters can either pressure Lobo after backdashing 21 xx pump shot, or they backdash out of standing 3 range. Only characters that get nothing from backdashing, other than escaping, are Harley, Hawkgirl, Sinestro, Bane, Shazam, Raven, Scorpion, Catwoman, GA and Ares.

EDIT: with 21 xx high pump shot being backdashable, the opponent can basically just backdash at the end of 21. It beats Czar Toss and High Pump Shot, canceling into low hook/hook charge is unsafe and hard to confirm that they're going to backdash.

So this basically boils down to either using MB Hook charge as a double-overhead in the 33/33/33 to keep you on the safer side of things forcing the opponent not to backdash, using czar toss (which is completely avoidable in several ways), or using trait low shot to either be the unsafe low starter or the anti backdash.

 

[Lord Hollow]

They would have to show me they can backdash the Pump shot before I stop doing it, honestly. Its all part of the oki, imo. Just one more layer... Excellent research nonetheless, Cage. As a counterpoint, I wonder if they can also backdash mid shot or even low pump shot? They do have slightly different timing, I believe.

 

[thatgoon24]

I don't understand this 21 pump shot pressure, the frame data says -1 so is this only while Lobo has trait?

 

[Cage Redfield]

They would have to show me they can backdash the Pump shot before I stop doing it, honestly. Its all part of the oki, imo. Just one more layer... Excellent research nonetheless, Cage. As a counterpoint, I wonder if they can also backdash mid shot or even low pump shot? They do have slightly different timing, I believe.

Mid Shot is backdashable, but not low shot. For the hell of it, I tested if trait shots made a difference or not, and they are backdashable as well. Low Shot doesn't let them back-dash, and trait Low Shot blows them up (quite literally) for trying to backdash.

I don't understand this 21 pump shot pressure, the frame data says -1 so is this only while Lobo has trait?

It's supposed to be a safe string we can use (think F23 xx breath but not as powerful). It's good because, otherwise, Lobo has to stay safe with stuff like MB Pump Shots or MB Hook Charge on block, and this is a meterless safe string that happens to be attached to one of our best mix-ups. My counter-argument above Hollow's post was to show that there are options against 21 xx high shot. Some characters can blow him up with a full combo punish if they backdash before the high shot, some can just pressure him since he's at disadvantage, or they could just get away from him.

 

[Chaosphere]

Can we talk about how traited low shot gives advantage on block? In training mode, I tested it against Lex's corps charge. I was able to get a full d1 out and it whiffs, before his corps charge gets to me. At the VERY least it's like 0 or +1. Could be +2 or +3. I'm not entirely sure how to test for that kind of stuff. Where is somberness when I need him. /cry

Either way, I'd like to figure out what his best options are after a blocked traited low shot. There is some push back. I usually just go for a 3~something just to try and interrupt them if they hit buttons. But I think the real guess is whether or not they are going to backdash at that point. If they sit still and block, 3~mb hook charge is decent just to keep them locked down and will cause some damage if they try and hit any buttons. Naked hook charge and low chain will blow up backdashing but both of those options can be blown up if they jump. At least low chain gets blown up there. Hook charge might be at the right distance to hit them in the air when they jump.

I wish you could set the opponent to block when you're recording in training mode =/

 

[Cage Redfield]

I was able to consistently stuff Flash's reversal with a d1 after making him block trait low shot, so it's + 1 for sure.

as for post trait low shot options, you can do d1 xx czar toss/hook charge/low shot. 3 and b1 give the opponent time to basically press any button to stuff it, so that's probably your best bet.

 

[thatgoon24]

If you want you can choose to hit 3 but the pressure then becomes character specific. They can't hit d1 to stuff you because alot of characters will whiff, same goes for alot of standing 1's. So if there pressure tool is faster than 3 than they will beat you, just something we have to look into. 3 is a better option than b1 because if they are hitting d1 im fairly certain b1 gets stuffed. They can always just back dash standing 3 so cage is right d1 is probably your best bet.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Lobo is 7 feet tall in the comics...why isn't he as big as Bane and is the same size as Batman?

 

[Colonel-Gilgamesh]

Lobo is 7 feet tall in the comics...why isn't he as big as Bane and is the same size as Batman?

Because he didn't need that nerf on top of his already extended list of bad qualities?

 

[Chaosphere]

I was able to consistently stuff Flash's reversal with a d1 after making him block trait low shot, so it's + 1 for sure.

as for post trait low shot options, you can do d1 xx czar toss/hook charge/low shot. 3 and b1 give the opponent time to basically press any button to stuff it, so that's probably your best bet.

Hm I thought that d1 would whiff due to push back. I'll play with that.

 

[thatgoon24]

Hm I thought that d1 would whiff due to push back. I'll play with that.

D1 whiffs if you don't have the frame trap timing down. The opponents d1 always whiffs unless they have really long d1 like nw staff stance or lex luthor, characters like that.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Because he didn't need that nerf on top of his already extended list of bad qualities?

so midget Lobo makes sense ? and didn't Lobo get a huge set of buffs? But everyone is going to pinpoint the bad qualities of their mains. It's just something that looks weirder than Batgirl's dash in the game, Lobo is big guy and always been.

 

[Cage Redfield]

Chaosphere, basically what goon said, and also; I haven't tested trait low shit being used from strings, only trait low shot itself. The potential pushback from strings like 21, f21 or b12 might make using trait in pressure not the greatest of ideas.


while i'm here

didn't Lobo get a huge set of buffs? But everyone is going to pinpoint the bad qualities of their mains.

a character can receive a large amount of buffs and still be outclassed by a large majority of the cast. Yoshimitsu from SFxT is a good comparison. Yoshimitsu was, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst characters in the game. Then SFxT 2013 came along and he went from "bottom of the barrel" to "viable character". However, there were still characters that made him irrelevant in high level play, like Chun-Li, Hwoarang and Nina. Lobo is more or less in the same boat as him.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Chaosphere, basically what goon said, and also; I haven't tested trait low shit being used from strings, only trait low shot itself. The potential pushback from strings like 21, f21 or b12 might make using trait in pressure not the greatest of ideas.


while i'm here




a character can receive a large amount of buffs and still be outclassed by a large majority of the cast. Yoshimitsu from SFxT is a good comparison. Yoshimitsu was, without a shadow of a doubt, one of the worst characters in the game. Then SFxT 2013 came along and he went from "bottom of the barrel" to "viable character". However, there were still characters that made him irrelevant in high level play, like Chun-Li, Hwoarang and Nina. Lobo is more or less in the same boat as him.

I thought we saw some good Lobo representation at NEC?