What's new

The Zoning Academy (Mortal Kombat 11 Edition)

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I think you can only make that argument out of context. Do you really think defensive options in MK11 are weaker than in MKX, relative to how strong offense is?
Obviously, the wake up system in Mortal Kombat 11 is more effective than the wake up system in Mortal Kombat X, but defensive options in footsies are superior in Mortal Kombat X, where you can backdash or perform armored EX special moves after strings that are negative on block. In Mortal Kombat 11, if my best advancing string is -7 on block, and many are, I am stuck in a mix up between throws and my opponent's best string. The whole game revolves around this meta, why is why some people are complaining about the abundance of negative strings and throws being a 50/50 mix up.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I like Noob, LK and Raiden right now with a touch of Cetrion. Just not sure who I enjoy the most atm.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Offensive characters, are significantly more powerful than zoning ones. Should have known better.
I agree.

Aside from Cetrion, who has to play a mid-range game against lots of characters, there are no traditional zoning characters in this game. The solution is to find characters who control the pace of the match without relying on projectiles.
 

Ck AeroVoid

Mk Casual, KI God
I agree.

Aside from Cetrion, who has to play a mid-range game against lots of characters, there are no traditional zoning characters in this game. The solution is to find characters who control the pace of the match without relying on projectiles.
Skarlet has many projectiles?
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I agree.

Aside from Cetrion, who has to play a mid-range game against lots of characters, there are no traditional zoning characters in this game. The solution is to find characters who control the pace of the match without relying on projectiles.
This makes sense as to why Cetrion is the only character I've found a true groove with, Skarlet a slight bit behind it. On the same page with you about Noob, feel he's a bit overrated with these "one of the best" statements coming from some people. The other zoners and space control characters leave a lot to be desired in comparison to the offensive ones.

The irony of it all is that I gave Sonya a hard look and can find success with her due to her overpowering offense and actual best projectile in the game, that has insane start up, insane recovery, and an insane high damage mid hitting KB attached (please). I just can't bring myself to co-op Sonya with Cetrion. It goes against everything I stand for lol.

You're right on that. The safest bet looks like the characters who can control the tempo or your movement, but also pressure you to reset it or pressure you down in general. If you don't go Cetrion guys like Kabal and Erron seem to fit this mold best so far.
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
There are plenty of strong zoners in this game. I want to explain this one last time to make sure everyone understands it.

The reason we don't have characters who can spend the entire game at fullscreen, is because that isn't interactive. There has to be a trade off. So if they make someone who's a monster at fullscreen where the opponent cannot interact with them, and they make they garbage at close range so they can't interact with their opponent- we have a boring game. We've seen this style before all it does is frustrate both sides. The zoner says they can't do anything. The rushdown player says they can't do anything.

The reason you don't have "pure zoners" in this game is because EVERYONE has options in close range. Cetrion has options. Skarlet has options- lots of really good ones. She's my main, so let me know if you want a list. No one is helpless just because the opponent closed the distance. And if you feel like you are when someone gets in close, I'd challenge you to analyze the weaknesses in your own play before blaming it on the game's design. If you want SZ, Geras, and Scorpion nerfs, that's a wholly separate issue. I think everyone is looking forward to the top tier being toned down.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
There are plenty of strong zoners in this game. I want to explain this one last time to make sure everyone understands it.

The reason we don't have characters who can spend the entire game at fullscreen, is because that isn't interactive. There has to be a trade off. So if they make someone who's a monster at fullscreen where the opponent cannot interact with them, and they make they garbage at close range so they can't interact with their opponent- we have a boring game. We've seen this style before all it does is frustrate both sides. The zoner says they can't do anything. The rushdown player says they can't do anything.

The reason you don't have "pure zoners" in this game is because EVERYONE has options in close range. Cetrion has options. Skarlet has options- lots of really good ones. She's my main, so let me know if you want a list. No one is helpless just because the opponent closed the distance. And if you feel like you are when someone gets in close, I'd challenge you to analyze the weaknesses in your own play before blaming it on the game's design. If you want SZ, Geras, and Scorpion nerfs, that's a wholly separate issue. I think everyone is looking forward to the top tier being toned down.
You said there are plenty of zoners in this game, then went on to give a detailed explanation as to why there aren't good traditional zoners? My issue is this-

The options that up close characters have, relative to their ranged options, is vastly superior to ranged characters relative to their up close options. That shouldn't even be debatable lol. What is debatable is if it's the preferred system of gameplay, not the system that's been implemented. This can change obviously if you "tone down" the top echelon to make it more diverse, but until then it's a bit lopsided in the offensive favor.

I think the "desire" gets misconstrued. I prefer all styles to be equally represented. I think that makes the best diversity in the game, where games like MK9 and Inj1 to me where the most diverse, balance issues aside. In MK9 for example you had incredible rushdown mix (Cyrax), incredible keepaway (Freddy), incredible pressure (Johnny and Sonya), incredible zoning (Kenshi), incredible anti-zoning (Smoke), incredible jack of all trades (Kabal), etc. In Inj1 you had the same level of diversity with MMH, Aquaman, Flash, Zod, Batgirl, Batman, Sinestro, and Bane at the top, and the middle to upper middle was equally diverse. So the games weren't as balanced overall, but the diverse representations were easily the best it's ever been, and that was games released in 2011 and 2013.

No knock on this game itself, the gameplay is amazing when you're not facing 4 characters. That doesn't change wanting to play a playstyle that was mostly killed off while the others remained in tact. Trap character users should have the same gripe as that is all but nonexistent as well. If that makes more sense.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
There has to be a trade off. So if they make someone who's a monster at fullscreen where the opponent cannot interact with them, and they make they garbage at close range so they can't interact with their opponent- we have a boring game. We've seen this style before all it does is frustrate both sides. The zoner says they can't do anything. The rushdown player says they can't do anything.
Both players have the opportunity to play their game. There is nothing wrong with that gameplay design.

What you have just described is actually what exists now. Not only is a character like Geras strong from a distance, he is much stronger up close. He has access to a grounded-hitting projectile that is even better than Aquaman's From the Deep.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Both players have the opportunity to play their game. There is nothing wrong with that gameplay design.

What you have just described is actually what exists now. Not only is a character like Geras strong from a distance, he is much stronger up close. He has access to a grounded-hitting projectile that is even better than Aquaman's From the Deep.
How is it better than from the deep. It’s really good but come on now
 
How is it better than from the deep. It’s really good but come on now
it's not as good for anti-airs nor does it track, but its safer and hits LOW which is a huge deal as well as on hit in infinite warden it prevents him from trading and he ducks under projectiles and puts him right in his wheelhouse. There is cause to say its better, having a low like that has you randomly ducking and jumping not playing footsies. Also its harder to react to in my opinion pretty sure its faster startup its like 17 frames.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
it's not as good for anti-airs nor does it track, but its safer and hits LOW which is a huge deal as well as on hit in infinite warden it prevents him from trading and he ducks under projectiles and puts him right in his wheelhouse. There is cause to say its better, having a low like that has you randomly ducking and jumping not playing footsies. Also its harder to react to in my opinion pretty sure its faster startup its like 17 frames.
I guess its not ridiculous to say its better but IMO its not..

THe only thing that might make it better for me is the krushing blow
 
Projectile Zoning in this game is strange. Projectiles don't trade and some have massive pushback on blk and ludicrous frames with bizarre hitboxes and priorities.

I think Archetypes don't really seem that distinguishable or emphasized in this game. Most characters are antizoners also by default with a special or arsenal to antizone.

Im looking for a trap/zone character. Dvorah seems kinda like what im looking for but shes no glacius or Kan ra...thats for sure
 

Wrath0594

Steam profile: 76561198102032134
I think zoning is fine, but all the zoning tools are overshadowed by what the top tier characters can currently do. Cannot wait for the nerfs that will roll in soon.

Also, why does Sonya get to be the best zoner in the game? I'd love to abuse the short range on her normals to counterplay her mixups, but I can't? Because I have to approach her. No matter who I am... Wtf?!

:'(
 
Last edited: