The World Has No More Room For Monsters: Swamp Thing General Discussion

[JnTonioo]

he can get b223 ex bayou bash b3 j2 f23 close vine grab but its hard

 

[JnTonioo]

no point probably jus want every1 to know ill try to upload

 

[chr1sam]

Ok so i played a bunch of matches yesterday and I have to say...this character is just not very good.

I think its too early to say hes the worst character in the game. But he DEFIANTLY isn't anything anywhere near top tier.

He sucks at full-screen.

He sucks at close-range due to his slow buttons.

At mid range he is only OK.

His combo damage is average.

Backdash is terrible, foward dash is only ok.

His jump attacks aren't great.

There literally nothing he has thats REALLY good.

Everything either sucks or is ok.

Edit: Also his meter burn back+3 and foward+3 are also garbage. The range doesn't make up for how slow they are. Its so easy for opponents to either break the armor or see you armor through their attack and still have time to block.

 

[chr1sam]

That being said I did learn some stuff while getting my butt destroyed last night by an army or robins, supermans, and deadshots.

1. Jump+1 is probably his best air normal. It cross-ups. Is decently fast, especially compared to jump2 and jump3 which are super slow. So its good for air to airs and jump ins.

2. Stand 3 is not worth it. It has good range but its too slow. If the opponent jumps it your fucked.

3. Ending juggles with regular vine grab is not good. You don't have enough advantage midscreen to pressure. Juggles should be ended in either the log or ex vine grab.

4. down back 3 is your best anti-zoning tool. The best strategy against characters like deadshot is to duck or block the projectile then do any immediate down back 3. If they try to do a second projectile it should at least trade. When its hits you have enough frame advantage to do a log or dash up.

5. Vine grab is not good in the neutral. It works well once you about mid-screen against zoners who keep spamming. Just like down-back 3 you can use it after ducking or blocking some projectiles but its not as reliable because some ranges it just doesn't hit and if its trades it won't be in your favor.

6.Down+2 into down foward 2 is your best tick throw. Down+1 into tick throw is interruptable with normals and doesn't work on hit. Stand 2 is way to slow to be used reliable. Down+2 into tick throw works on block and on hit(if the opponent is close enough) and I don't believe theres as much of a gap(have to test).

7.Jump+3 in the corner leads to down+1 into down foward 2. You can land the crouch jab midscreen but all specials whiff.

8. His trait is hard to use. But after a ex vine grab you should have enough time to get it out safely.

9. Down+2 sucks as an anti-air. You have to do it super preemptively. Your better off using stand 1 or jump 1.

Thats all i have for now. Hopefully get to play some more tommorrow.

 

[chr1sam]

That being said I did learn some stuff while getting my butt destroyed last night by an army or robins, supermans, and deadshots.

1. Jump+1 is probably his best air normal. It cross-ups. Is decently fast, especially compared to jump2 and jump3 which are super slow. So its good for air to airs and jump ins.

2. Stand 3 is not worth it. It has good range but its too slow. If the opponent jumps it your fucked.

3. Ending juggles with regular vine grab is not good. You don't have enough advantage midscreen to pressure. Juggles should be ended in either the log or ex vine grab.

4. down back 3 is your best anti-zoning tool. The best strategy against characters like deadshot is to duck or block the projectile then do any immediate down back 3. If they try to do a second projectile it should at least trade. When its hits you have enough frame advantage to do a log or dash up.

5. Vine grab is not good in the neutral. It works well once you about mid-screen against zoners who keep spamming. Just like down-back 3 you can use it after ducking or blocking some projectiles but its not as reliable because some ranges it just doesn't hit and if its trades it won't be in your favor.

6.Down+2 into down foward 2 is your best tick throw. Down+1 into tick throw is interruptable with normals and doesn't work on hit. Stand 2 is way to slow to be used reliable. Down+2 into tick throw works on block and on hit(if the opponent is close enough) and I don't believe theres as much of a gap(have to test).

7.Jump+3 in the corner leads to down+1 into down foward 2. You can land the crouch jab midscreen but all specials whiff.

8. His trait is hard to use. But after a ex vine grab you should have enough time to get it out safely.

9. Down+2 sucks as an anti-air. You have to do it super preemptively. Your better off using stand 1 or jump 1.

Thats all i have for now. Hopefully get to play some more tommorrow.

Forgot to mention that back foward 3 can be used as a wake-up. Haven't tested it in training mode but it seems to go through a lot of stuff even when you use it standing.

Also I think the best string to use that I didn't use at all last night is his back 2 2 3 string. Its pops up for a mini juggle. And is +6 on block. I think they is defiantly a gap between the 2nd and 3rd hit but haven't tested.

 

[kabelfritz]

so, does anyone play this character or has he been labeled "never alowed to live" on day 1? i dont play the game but im a swamp thing main at heart. he looks pretty lost in a game with strong zoners, but ive seen this one move where he summons his doppelganger from behind like scorpions demon, is that a legit counterzoning tool?

 

[kabelfritz]

8. His trait is hard to use. But after a ex vine grab you should have enough time to get it out safely.

from what i see it seems like ending a corner combo in trait then shimmy is a good use - supposed it catches them in the corner and is not really just exactly below you. in that case youd need a knockdown where you end up kinda inside them.

4. down back 3 is your best anti-zoning tool. The best strategy against characters like deadshot is to duck or block the projectile then do any immediate down back 3. If they try to do a second projectile it should at least trade. When its hits you have enough frame advantage to do a log or dash up.

i suppose that is the doppelganger from behind? it might be fast enough to not trade if you use the ducking as part of the input of the move. gotta be precise though.

 

[KillerOfBunnies]

so, does anyone play this character or has he been labeled "never alowed to live" on day 1? i dont play the game but im a swamp thing main at heart. he looks pretty lost in a game with strong zoners, but ive seen this one move where he summons his doppelganger from behind like scorpions demon, is that a legit counterzoning tool?

I'm trying to main him (suffering Doomsday withdrawal) and the mentality behind Swamp Thing is near the same. He's just so damned slow. He plays quick as hell ,though, at mid.

His db3 is good for keeping zoners honest. The db1 keeps 'em pissed. If you ex his db3 it becomes a grab and Swampy crosses the screen for a free hit, closing the distance but keeping you at close-mid.

I'm eyeing his df2 to counter closers but so far 1+1 has worked best for me.

My best combo nets 425.66 but requires two ex. Goes to 360 with only one.

His wall game appears varied. Juggle for days...

 

[KillerOfBunnies]

Forgot to add that a zoning Superman is impossible to compete against. No speed to close with and nothing to counter his flighty bullshit at such a distance.

If anyone thinks of anything I am all ears...

 

[RNLDRGN]

If youre maining Swamp Thing and reading this... go ahead and post who your backup is lol. You'll need one.

I'm running Darkseid to help with these pesky zoners when Swamp isn't a viable option.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Forgot to add that a zoning Superman is impossible to compete against. No speed to close with and nothing to counter his flighty bullshit at such a distance

I super think that aerial zoning is what Swampy dies to. df1u can work at certain ranges, but that's about his only option to deal with it unless you want to MB Dash to get in.

All other versions of df1 are so finicky that I'm finding them highly risky to use outside combos. Feels like Swampy is designed to be a highly counter-active character who limits the opponent's options because he has lots of checks, except they mostly aren't good enough that the opponent really has to respect them.

His Startup and Recovery frames on most all Specials & Trait are very high. Feels like a grappler version of Balanced Kenshi before he got buffed. I don't want to say he's bottom tier yet... but I just don't see how he could possibly be above average.

If youre maining Swamp Thing and reading this... go ahead and post who your backup is lol. You'll need one.

100% agree with this. There are so many matchups Swampy just can't handle. My backups right now are looking like Green Lantern for zoning and Atrocitus for pressure.

 

[RNLDRGN]

I super think that aerial zoning is what Swampy dies to. df1u can work at certain ranges, but that's about his only option to deal with it unless you want to MB Dash to get in.

All other versions of df1 are so finicky that I'm finding them highly risky to use outside combos. Feels like Swampy is designed to be a highly counter-active character who limits the opponent's options because he has lots of checks, except they mostly aren't good enough that the opponent really has to respect them.

His Startup and Recovery frames on most all Specials & Trait are very high. Feels like a grappler version of Balanced Kenshi before he got buffed. I don't want to say he's bottom tier yet... but I just don't see how he could possibly be above average.

100% agree with this. There are so many matchups Swampy just can't handle. My backups right now are looking like Green Lantern for zoning and Atrocitus for pressure.

Atrocitus vs pressure characters? Why/how so? I've spent no time with that character.

 

[AK Harold]

A few things I noticed with Swamp Thing I wanted to share. I will just breakdown special moves for now. Sorry I do not know the exact names of moves.

Vine Grabs - They are great for footsie tools and whiff punishes. Since they have no hurt box, they are ideal to punish errant strings etc. that the enemy throws out to deal with your string pressure. They also force ducking or jumping. Ducking is great since it reduces their footsies. Jumping is great for obvious reasons, you get to punish. Up vine is great to condition players. Far vine is great to punish power up moves and also air projectiles. If you evade the air projectile attempt you get a free vine toss which hurts a lot.

Green Thumb - Great command grab that gives you the option of left or right. The 1 ender seems only good in corner to force respect with d1. Combined with his trait you can get some great mileage out of tick throws as they literally have to get hit by d1 on purpose to avoid the tick. That is when you can do other things for more pressure/chip. The MB gives decent health if you consider damage difference each one adds 80 health difference which is pretty strong considering. If you are desperate you can MB twice for 160 hp that can get you out of a combo kill. Really I only use it if i'm close to half health for it to make a difference.

Log kick - To be honest its pretty damn good. Yes its slow, but it is an advancing projectile that knocks down hitting low. Once they get scared of vines and clone they have to just eat these as you move into range for your footsies. I wish they had a meter burn to give it some weight but maybe it would be too much.

Swamp slam - typical combo finish or extender. If you time it right you can swoop under high projectiles to advance a little easier. As D.R. shows its our most efficient damage extend for strings.

Clone - This is our pseudo vortex move. When I have no meter or want to conserve meter I use this ender for strings. It will hit them into you and leave you plus to go back into pressure or Green Thumb. Great to dismantle mashers for free. If you have a smarter player it still puts them at edge since you are just hitting them for so long and they should be scared of your command grab too. This also takes away the jump option many times and forces them to duck or dash forward which leads back to vines or F2. The MB version can be used if you are having trouble getting in on a zoner.

Trait - Its a situational trait. It does come back quite quickly and offers space control against non zoning. Simply walking back against characters that cannot shoot you will let you log/vine/clone with impunity. There are a few corner setups you can use to establish the trait to get another command grab in. Overall, it is a little lackluster. If it healed while standing on it that would help against zoning and force action more. Against non zoning though use it every chance you get. It is just free damage/spacing.

Overall is fun and has good tools to force grounded opponents to take chances. Air superiority seems to be difficult to deal with at the moment.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Atrocitus vs pressure characters? Why/how so? I've spent no time with that character.

I meant Atrocitus being a pressure character himself. He can make anything safe or plus while his trait is active and sometimes full combo off things for no bar. He also does good chip and has the blood-stealing move up close.

 

[CrazyFingers]

How do you guys usually play Swampy?

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

How do you guys usually play Swampy?

Still learning him - so far trying to play around midscreen in most matchups where JI2 and F2 are threats, doing crossup JI1, D2 xx DF2 and moving in for tick throws with Trait setups in corner when possible. Mostly I find it's hard to be proactive due to his low mobility, so I watch the opponent a lot to make reads. Jump-ins are met with DF1U, crossups with DB2, dash-ins with F2, midscreen zoning with JI2 (usually) and fullscreen zoning with DB3.

Generally ending combos with DF1 or DF2. Command Grabs option is usually 3 for damage, 2 for side switch in corner only, 1 very rarely. Maybe in corner.

Bar is usually spent extending either B2,2,3 or F2,3 hit confirm or mb DASH to bypass zoning or escape corner. Sometimes Breaker or Air Tech immediately after opponent spends bar. Oki is either a D1 xx DF2; Throw; crossup 1 or OH/Low mixup with 2 or B1. I rarely spend bar to heal with command grab because I'm sort of greedy and try to get more than 8% for a bar unless I'm at max already. SUPER is generally only used on hit confirm (or otherwise caught opponent with no options to avoid) on first first healthbar or for lethal.

If any inputs listed are wrong above, I just got them mixed up. Game came out yesterday.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Still learning him - so far trying to play around midscreen in most matchups where JI2 and F2 are threats, doing crossup JI1, D2 xx DF2 and moving in for tick throws with Trait setups in corner when possible. Mostly I find it's hard to be proactive due to his low mobility, so I watch the opponent a lot to make reads. Jump-ins are met with DF1U, crossups with DB2, dash-ins with F2, midscreen zoning with JI2 (usually) and fullscreen zoning with DB3.

Generally ending combos with DF1 or DF2. Command Grabs option is usually 3 for damage, 2 for side switch in corner only, 1 very rarely. Maybe in corner.

Bar is usually spent extending either B2,2,3 or F2,3 hit confirm or mb DASH to bypass zoning or escape corner. Sometimes Breaker or Air Tech immediately after opponent spends bar. Oki is either a D1 xx DF2; Throw; crossup 1 or OH/Low mixup with 2 or B1. I rarely spend bar to heal with command grab because I'm sort of greedy and try to get more than 8% for a bar unless I'm at max already. SUPER is generally only used on hit confirm (or otherwise caught opponent with no options to avoid) on first first healthbar or for lethal.

If any inputs listed are wrong above, I just got them mixed up. Game came out yesterday.

If you aren't using his Sweep and S3 along with F2 you need to fix that, these two buttons are fantastic for setting the pace of the match.

 

[D. R.]

How do you guys usually play Swampy?

You don't.

 

[CrazyFingers]

You don't.

if you have nothing actually useful to say as an answer to my question probably shouldn't reply to it

 

[chr1sam]

So one tactic thats good against rush down characters is once they get close. Use d+1 followed by a stand 3. The stand 3 will push them back into a better range for yourself. And if you use it after d+1 which is +15 on hit they can't jump the stand 3.

Once you got them pushed back you can use more stand 3s or down+3. If they try to jump use stand 1.

I've had a lot of success with this. Its a lot better than sticking out a stand 3 in the neutral and praying they don't jump over it.

Also his jump+2 is like kotal jump 1. Super good for punishing fireballs from mid screen.

Against zoners I like to work my way into about mid range then randomly jump+2. Works well. If you can get to at least half screen distance from them.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

If you aren't using his Sweep and S3 along with F2 you need to fix that, these two buttons are fantastic for setting the pace of the match

Yeah, 3 is mostly something I use on a read that the enemy will advance into it. D3 is good for the Low mixups since you can special cancel after the first hit.

 

[KingJerm731]

I don't think he's as bad as people are making him out to be. Really good zoning fucks him but if they have mid tier zoning or are a rush down character, you have a pretty good chance. His strings are slow but he covers half the screen. Between log, grabs and air grabs he can make you scared to do anything. You're going to need a secondary to cover matchups but he reminds me a lot of kotal.

 

[masuhdunkillyall]

Any BnB's figured out yet folks? I haven't labbed with him much yet (re-learning my old mains Bane and Aquaman, and playing alot online) but I'd like to see what others have found.

Swampy seems super interesting, and I definitely want to work on him.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

Any BnB's figured out yet folks?

Depends on if you want optimal or simple. Some of mine at the moment:

F2,3 xx BF3 mb ~ F2,3 xx DB3 ~ 1 xx DF2,3 = 36% midscreen for 1 bar.
B2,2,3 xx DB3 ~ B2,3,2 xx DF2,3 = 31% corner meterless. Could also do trait here instead of command grab with enough advantage to start spreading the garden walking back by the time opponent wakes up, yields 21%.
D2 ~ F2,3 xx DB3 ~ D1 xx DF2,3 = 24% meterless anti-air

You get a little more damage for ending most of those strings in 1,1 xx DF1B instead of DF2, but I prefer DF2 since it gives you options.

 

[NumeroGaijin]

My first post! I honestly don't think he's bad. He just requires patience and a little conditioning them and you will be good. His best strings imo is b2,2 and b2,3 (b2,3 with trait in the corner is hard to see. This character has a ton of potential. You might have to tweak your playstyle a bit to avoid them from escaping his mixups. Once you get a hit this character hits like a truck for sure. Easy 40 to 50% with a bar or 2 with this guy.