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The World Has No More Room For Monsters: Swamp Thing General Discussion

freerf245

freerf245

11 11 11 11
Bf3 if held goes under all of Fate's projectiles, including a mb orb as longs it is not right in front of Fate. Makes the matchup easier.
 
U

UltraDavid

Mortal
I did some testing on the new BF3's frame data on block. The non-meterburn maximum hold version & all meterburn versions regardless of hold length can be punished by 10f startup moves but not by 11f (like Darkseid knee).

Also, meterburn BF3 max hold goes slightly farther slightly faster than non-meterburn BF3. For example, from full screen, both meterburn & non-meterburn max BF3 can go under 2 of 3 of Fate's MB DF1 fireball, but it's super easy for meterburn BF3 & too difficult to be practical for non-meterburn.
 
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UltraDavid

Mortal
My initial impression of Swamp in this patch is that he's definitely better, but that we'll need some time to max out his new buffs so I'm not sure yet if he'll be just good or really good.

I like his anti-zoning game quite a bit better in some matchups. It's already helpful that Deadshot is a bit worse. On top of that, BF3 hold going under projectiles so much more easily is really helpful. Against Dr Fate at full screen, one BF3 hold now gets you into the range where you can duck BF1, and against other zoners the margin of error is way better to get under stuff. Faster startup & less recovery make log kick a bit better in slow spacing matchups too.

His pressure is better too, although how much remains to be seen imo. Safe & faster log kick makes the overhead/low game more credible & doesn't give up the corner like F21. F233 and B223 linking to F2 more easily is a big deal for consistent damage output while being able to save meter for other stuff. With armor, meaty DB2 beats wakeups, is safe on block, is hit confirmable by itself into meterburn for damage, and helps continue pressure on block by meterburning for plus frames like an armored Scarecrow reppuken. Armored st3 at range, especially when you have the corner, can keep the opponent pinned well.

His midrange game is also better, although again I don't know how much. Armored standing 3 gives his footsies even more strength, and armored DB2 gives him a very good antiair. F23 xx trait is safe at max range vs everything but some supers, so you should be able to get armor out in neutral at least some of the time.

But there's a lot of work to be done on how to use the new trait. I know y'all did some work on combos that end in or include trait activation, but that needs to be more of a priority now than before. We also have to get used to actually canceling the trait to get it back sooner if it seems like we won't be able to use it at the time. Will there be any value in looking for hail mary armored vine grab from far away anymore, or should trait only be used for pressure? Or will there be any value in pressuring with something that goes away instantly on hit (and isn't as strong as like mechanical bats etc)? Gonna take some time to figure that stuff out.

At a minimum I think he's better, but if we find really good trait setups and pressure sequences, I think he could be really good!
 
DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Master
Great write up. Agreed with all, I'm really enjoying Swamp Thing now. So much more enjoyable for me, I was stuck in a rut before with the character but now there's so much to improve on. It's awesome.
 
PND OmegaK

PND OmegaK

Drunk and Orderly
Im thinking of picking up Swampy, what are immediate things I need to know and is there anywhere with all of his optimal corner setups or do I have to rummage through the forums?
 
U

UltraDavid

Mortal
More on BF3 hold: if Superman does F23 breath F2, Swamp can block breath, do BF3 hold, slide under the F2, & hit Superman. BF3 always ducked mid normals just as well as mid projectiles, but most of them were active too long for regular BF3 to stay under. BF3 hold fixes this! Of course this is a read against Superman, and if Superman blocks the BF3 hold he can punish with F2 into whatever, but it's another tool in the toolbox.

Edit: BF3 hold can also antiair from really far and escape forward under attempted crossups. I think this one change is a really big deal!
 
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D. R.

D. R.

Kombatant
Messing with Swamp Thing's corner game, it's actually really mix up heavy now in so many ways. Since db2 has armor while he's in trait, the opponent can now get punished for push blocking, which was originally the bane of trait in the corner.

Not foolproof, but another welcome addition to Swamp Thing's arsenal.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
PND OmegaK said:
Im thinking of picking up Swampy, what are immediate things I need to know and is there anywhere with all of his optimal corner setups or do I have to rummage through the forums?
Click to expand...
You give me a bit and i can give you the basics that you should have down.
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
PND OmegaK said:
Im thinking of picking up Swampy, what are immediate things I need to know and is there anywhere with all of his optimal corner setups or do I have to rummage through the forums?
Click to expand...
OKAY! So for corner setups basically you have a couple options.

Starter xx MB BF3, D2 xx 4, 11 xx BF3, 4
This setup will have them wakeup with their feet in the garden. You hit 4 the second time to extend the lifetime of the garden.

Starter xx MB BF3, D2, 11 xx DF2, 3, 4
This is to get YOUR feet in the garden+a hard knockdown for your armored 3/DB2

F233, D2 xx DB3, B22
This is a quick stand setup which is VERY useful. I tend to meaty with B1/D2 Tick throw mix. Very effective for keeping the pressure feeling relentless, not letting your opponent breathe.


Midscreen the only setup i think everyone should know about is
Starter xx MB BF3, F23 xx DB3, 1 xx BF3 into Meaty Log.
If they don't tech roll you are insanely plus, if they do tech roll you are slightly plus. Keep in mind certain advancing wakeups will stuff log (i have to test it on the whole cast) but if they consistently wakeup after log, you can block and bait instead of throwing log.


hope this helps! cheers and enjoy!
 
Skedar70

Skedar70

Warrior
Espio said:
For the sake of being constructive, why do you think that? Not disagreeing, just would like to know what the deal is.
Click to expand...
Terrible mobility. Bad jumps, His strings are very slow on startup and high on recovery. You barely get any chance to do any setups with his trait. The new bf3 is very slow on startup and wont go under most projectiles you will get hit out of hit.

Unlike other characters you can usually see strengths in them. For example Grodd is a vortex one hit kill, Bane is awesome at rushdown with his trait, wonder woman has great footsie tools, Dr fate is very good at zoning. Swamp Thing has no particular strength and many weaknesses.
 
JnTonioo

JnTonioo

Yurp
PetulantWaste said:
Literally just got bodied by your Swamp Thing, can confirm corner game is absurd. I was the Joker player. Approaching on the ground was stupid. If you just walk back there's literally no way I can catch up except jumping.
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ggs bro yea swamp is pretty good right now with these buffs
 
CrazyFingers

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Skedar70 said:
Terrible mobility. Bad jumps, His strings are very slow on startup and high on recovery. You barely get any chance to do any setups with his trait. The new bf3 is very slow on startup and wont go under most projectiles you will get hit out of hit.

Unlike other characters you can usually see strengths in them. For example Grodd is a vortex one hit kill, Bane is awesome at rushdown with his trait, wonder woman has great footsie tools, Dr fate is very good at zoning. Swamp Thing has no particular strength and many weaknesses.
Click to expand...
Okay imma go over this. Some of it is correct and some is just blatantly wrong.

Terrible mobility is 100% true. He's a slow dude but that's his design

Slow buttons again, that's his design we've learned to live with that.

Bad jumps is just incorrect. His jump arch is floaty, yes, but J2 is one of the best jump ins in the game and allows him to get a lot off of jumping over stuff at certain ranges. (You end up jumping further away for jump ins as swamp thing because of how huge j2 is, this makes AAing him hard if used correctly)

BF3 not going under most projectiles is just a gigantic lie. It goes under basically all of them. If you're getting tagged, you need to clean up how you use this tool because it does exactly what it's supposed to.

It's super easy to get trait out when F23/B23 xx 4 is safe. And when you actually get the hit, you get tons of ways to set it up.

Swamp Thing having "no particular strength" is a lie. He's got some of the best neutral in the game, very strong mixup game from D2 tick throws, strong staggers in B2, and B22. B223 has a pokeable gap but B22 xx BF3 has no pokeable gap so that's a 50/50. Essentially youre playing heavy neutral, and making them respect F2 range. When they respect that you can do stuff like dash up command grab. Also log at a distance is so strong, absurdly plus, great for Oki and for counter zoning.
 
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