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The Truth About MK11 Tournament Numbers So Far

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I've been seeing a ton of misinformation regarding the tournament turnout of MK11 in majors through this point. So I wanted to actually collect the facts, here in on place, in order to help clear things up.

You often see posts like "turnout is low" or "the tournament scene is dead". So let's look at how MK11 compares to other past games:

Combo Breaker 2015 (MKX) Entrants - 273
Combo Breaker 2017 (INJ2) Entrants - 391
Combo Breaker 2019 (MK11) Entrants - 807

CEO 2015 (MKX) Entrants - 316
CEO 2017 (INJ2) Entrants - 400
CEO 2019 (MK11) Entrants - 531

EVO 2015 (MKX) Entrants - 1,162
EVO 2017 (INJ2) Entrants - 880
EVO 2019 (MK11) Entrants - 1576

ECT 2015 (MKX) Entrants - 90
ECT 2017 (INJ2) Entrants - 122
ECT 2019 (MK11) Entrants - 197

NEC 2015 (MKX) Entrants - 161
NEC 2017 (INJ2) Entrants - 109
NEC 2019 (MK11) Entrants - 90

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Now, I've seen comments from people who are specifically referencing the last major, NEC, which is lower turnnout than we've had in the past. I think it's important to remind people that that event, NEC 20, was on the whole drastically diminished from what NEC used to be. This was due to the venue location, the timing of the major (it was Thanksgiving weekend), and the fact that this whole circuit of events is struggling (they weren't included in the Soul Calibur pro tour, for example, and they're not on the CPT or the NRS Pro Tour either). The largest event at NEC had 104 entrants, which is extremely low for a major in 2019.

Just to underscore this point, I'm going to post the ECT/NEC 2019 numbers for all the EVO games, just so people can see how MK11 attendance has been vs. other games even at post-evo majors.

ECT 2019 (October 19-20)
https://smash.gg/tournament/east-coast-throwdown-2019

Mortal Kombat 11: 197 entrants
Street Fighter V: 170 entrants
Tekken 7: 137 entrants
Samurai Shodown: 118 entrants
DBFZ: 114 entrants
Soul Calibur 6: 70 entrants
UNIEL: 59 entrants
Marvel vs. Capcom 2: 3 entrants.

NEC 20:

Soul Calibur 4: 104 entrants
Mortal Kombat 11: 90 entrants
Tekken 7: 90 entrants
DBFZ: 45 entrants
Smash Ultimate: 44 entrants
SF5: 36 entrants
Samurai Shodown: 35 entrants.

We were the biggest game at ECT, and tied for second largest at NEC. I think the numbers speak for themselves, but I think it's clear to see that so far, MK11 attendance has really mainly scaled by the size of the event. When an east coast major gets less than 40 entrants for SFV, I think it's pretty obvious.

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This post is strictly about tournament numbers. You can think whatever you want about the game's meta -- some will like it and some will not. Some will like it, but still want certain changes for the future.
I've posted my own list of suggestions for improvement in the past: https://testyourmight.com/threads/mk11-wishlist-quality-of-life-fixes.72184/

However, the tournament performance of MK11 should not be in dispute. Both offline and online -- Mr. Aquaman just held an online qualifier that had 280+ entrants and some 7k stream viewers. People like Destroyer have dedicated themselves toward building a passionate online following and community that has its own life outside of majors. And what's more, we should be celebrating this and spreading the word, because those of us who were here since MK9 (or before) remember the time just a few years ago when we were lucky just to get actual main venue floor space, or a stream. We have come a long way.

I encourage everybody, regardless of your different opinions on the game, to at least be accurate when talking about the numbers for the tournament scene. Love you guys. See you around.
 
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REYTHEGREAT

..........................
Thank you for taking the time to gather all this information. One thing that i keep hearing is low number but not at first year, more like second year and so on. Example, a new MK game comes out and have strong numbers at the game's first evo but then drastically drop the second year. Also, it is not played globally (number wise) like other games such as SF, Tekken and so.
 
even though ppl already clarified they were off on the number and that numbers were ZERO of the point, this thread exists. Keep shifting the point to numbers.. this is actually more of a problem. Ignore ppl and beat them over the head with numbers then wonder where so many came out to vent after the EVO announcement.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
even though ppl already clarified they were off on the number and that numbers were ZERO of the point, this thread exists. Keep shifting the point to numbers.. this is actually more of a problem. Ignore ppl and beat them over the head with numbers then wonder where so many came out to vent after the EVO announcement.
You're weren't the first to quote incorrect information on this subject. And you definitely won't be the last.

Misquotes and misinformation about tournament turnout have been floating around for months at this point, and I've seen them in several other threads and Twitter convos this week alone. So I think it's not a bad thing for people to actually be able to look at the numbers and how they compare.

Unless you had these all memorized (which I didn't), it's probably worth taking a look at them.
 
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CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Thank you for taking the time to gather all this information. One thing that i keep hearing is low number but not at first year, more like second year and so on. Example, a new MK game comes out and have strong numbers at the game's first evo but then drastically drop the second year. Also, it is not played globally (number wise) like other games such as SF, Tekken and so.
Thank you for bringing this up, because it allows me to illustrate something else: What people never point out is that other EVO games have drastic drops year after year. For example:

Blazblue CTB 2018 entrants: 1178
Blazblue CTB 2019 entrants: 640

DBFZ 2018 entrants: 2575
DBFZ 2019 entrants: 1191

Even years ago:

KOF13 EVO 2012: 1072 entrants
KOF13 EVO 2013: 433 entrants

This is a natural cycle for popular games outside of the biggest mainstays (like SFV and Smash) because it means that the game had a year where it was hyped up and players from other communities flooded the bracket for kicks, and then the following year it was more players from that game's core community who signed up.

It's not unusual and it's actually a neat thing that MK games get so many people signing up just because it's a classic brand in the first year.

(It also didn't stop DBFZ from being included at EVO for the 3rd year in a row in 2020. Food for thought.)
 

appo

º°˜¨EU¨˜°º
Ay dats kool but Crim can we see the evo 2020 numbers tho?
Since it will be just a side tournament the numbers will be of course lower but just because its not a mainline title game doesnt mean mk11 is not part of evo 2020. DoA and other games had official/unofficial side tourneys too in the past.
 
even though ppl already clarified they were off on the number and that numbers were ZERO of the point, this thread exists. Keep shifting the point to numbers.. this is actually more of a problem. Ignore ppl and beat them over the head with numbers then wonder where so many came out to vent after the EVO announcement.
Why was I banned from talking in your stream? Wth
 

Marlow

Premium
Premium Supporter
I don't know why some people just cannot admit that this game was poorly executed, should have been held off from release when it was and is on a lot of levels other than sales....a failure.
Failure seems like a strong way to put it though. On what levels has it failed?

As you've said, sales were very successful. It's gotten solid critical reviews and did well in terms of award placement. Tournament numbers have been great. So it seems like it's been pretty successful both casually, competitively, and critically. It's certainly not a perfect game, but I'm wondering why you'd call it a failure?
 

Wigy

There it is...
even though ppl already clarified they were off on the number and that numbers were ZERO of the point, this thread exists. Keep shifting the point to numbers.. this is actually more of a problem. Ignore ppl and beat them over the head with numbers then wonder where so many came out to vent after the EVO announcement.
I rarely side with crimson on things but his post says he wanted to clarify misinformation on tournament success of this game. You're pulling some irrelevant grievance here. He legitimately says this is nothing to do with the meta of the game.

Also sound like an anti vaxxer with this I don't care about your verifiable statistics
 

xKMMx

Noob
Failure seems like a strong way to put it though. On what levels has it failed?

As you've said, sales were very successful. It's gotten solid critical reviews and did well in terms of award placement. Tournament numbers have been great. So it seems like it's been pretty successful both casually, competitively, and critically. It's certainly not a perfect game, but I'm wondering why you'd call it a failure?
I think it has failed to live up to its billing as a neutral based chess match of a fighting game. I think what they wanted was for this to be a well respected fighting game by the FGC as a whole and that is why they toned down a lot of the more wild and crazy aspects of MK. But to me it feels like when a band that is well known for one thing tries to do something they aren't good at to try and appease or reach for a new audience.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
@CrimsonShadow thank you so much for making this thread. The internet is full of so many salty people spreading misinformation regarding a lot of stuff and it's true not just for the MK/NRS community or TYM specifically but to a lot things and franchises in gaming and outside of gaming, all center other then one goal: setting up an agenda.

I can tell you that for example, when it comes to the latest Pokemon games, which are Pokemon Sword and Shield, almost everyone spreads so much misinformation and lies about the games, all because they wanna set their agenda that these games suck when they are actually not, and in the case of YouTubers and gaming "journalists", to get clicks and money as well at their expense. NRS/WB are suffering from the exact same thing, because the community is so entitled and so spoiled that they want NRS games to fit to their specific vision or they just can't handle losing, and when comes something that can even by the slightest prove their agenda right, they jump on the "I told you so" bandwagon and try to deny anything that will prove their agenda false even when the facts that prove that are represented to them.

Now since this thread is all about sharing facts, I got some facts of my own. For any of the internet orgy trolls, both in and out of TYM, that throwing their agenda to make MK11 around the idea that MK11 is not at EVO is solely because of the gameplay and meta of the game, here are some facts that you either didn't know, or you did but you purposely ignore them.

1) On the token for NRS games, EVO didn't wanna put IJ1 in it's main line-up for 2013 because they didn't know if it will sell well enough, so they put MK9 in 2013 because it was a safe bet for them. Then when IJ1 did sell well, they put IJ1 at EVO in addition to MK9. That's why we got both MK9 and IJ1 at EVO in 2013.

2) MVCI didn't make it to the main line-up of EVO for not even one year, and the MVC series is the second most associated franchise with EVO next to SF. And it didn't make it because while both the gameplay and the netcode in this game were awesome, everything else in MVCI sucked donkey balls, so this game was very poorly received among everyone both in and out of the FGC.

3) DBFZ took the place of MVCI in 2018 as the team based fighting game of EVO and it broke the viewership record for EVO, yet DBFZ almost didn't make it to EVO the following year (which was last year) because there were problems money-wise to put the game at EVO, apparently because Shueisha (the company that owns the Dragon Ball franchise) didn't wanna put the money for it, regardless of the viewership record breaking by DBFZ.

All of those facts show games, both NRS and non-NRS ones, going through the process of making to EVO and NONE OF THOSE CASES SHOW ANY RELATION TO THE GAMEPLAY OR THE META OF THOSE GAMES.

So if any of you orgy trolls wanna keep throwing the meta and gameplay of MK11 as the sole reason for it not making to EVO, here's your proof why it's not the case. Combined with the numbers that Crimson brought up, there is no denying that MK11 is at a fantastic place right now and it only goes further. You may prefer any game that you want, but YOU CANNOT DENY FACTS ABOUT THE SUCCESS OF THE GAME AND YOU CANT DENY THE OBJECTIVE HIGH QUALITY OF THE GAMES, BECAUSE THE CORE OF PREFERENCES DOES NOT AFFECT THE OBJECTIVE QUALITY OF THE GAMES.

I've said my piece, so have at it.
 
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I got some facts of my own...
How interesting. And it makes sense, at least more than that of the bad gameplay reasoning.

Only problem is that in the same way that the "it's not at Evo 2020 because gameplay is bad" camp goes on, there's no proof or validation that is/was the case.

We're still stuck in a situation where everyone believes what they think is the reason is the actual reason.

The numbers shown don't really agree with all the "tournament scene is dead" posts, no matter which way people try to massage them. At least for the ones shown.

Without any sort of official response all anyone can do is speculate. And i'm not sure what that actually accomplishes. Better off letting it go, looking forward to the next major and ensuring that it's the biggest and best showing of MK11.