The Truth About MK11 Tournament Numbers So Far

[xKhaoTik]

All those numbers and EVO 2020 still has a big flat ZERO for MK11

 

[Roy Arkon]

How interesting. And it makes sense, at least more than that of the bad gameplay reasoning.

Only problem is that in the same way that the "it's not at Evo 2020 because gameplay is bad" camp goes on, there's no proof or validation that is/was the case.

We're still stuck in a situation where everyone believes what they think is the reason is the actual reason.

The numbers shown don't really agree with all the "tournament scene is dead" posts, no matter which way people try to massage them. At least for the ones shown.

Without any sort of official response all anyone can do is speculate. And i'm not sure what that actually accomplishes. Better off letting it go, looking forward to the next major and ensuring that it's the biggest and best showing of MK11.

Dude, I just gave a proof. EVO doesn't care about gameplay or meta, in fact they care about almost anything else but that. These facts that I've showed for games from all companies prove just that.

 

[Darth-Nero]

Thanks for documenting this, It'll be a good reference to scale how much the numbers dwindles after the no Evo 2020 announcement.

 

[xKMMx]

How interesting. And it makes sense, at least more than that of the bad gameplay reasoning.

Only problem is that in the same way that the "it's not at Evo 2020 because gameplay is bad" camp goes on, there's no proof or validation that is/was the case.

We're still stuck in a situation where everyone believes what they think is the reason is the actual reason.

The numbers shown don't really agree with all the "tournament scene is dead" posts, no matter which way people try to massage them. At least for the ones shown.

Without any sort of official response all anyone can do is speculate. And i'm not sure what that actually accomplishes. Better off letting it go, looking forward to the next major and ensuring that it's the biggest and best showing of MK11.
[/QUOTE]
I think this whole thing is actually could end up being healthy for the game. IF. Nrs would step up and address it. But they don't. They just put out fake news about how Spawn will be revealed at Final Kombat. But I will admit yes those of us that think this game was left out of EVO because of it's boring and stale gameplay do not have proof. But the numbers from previous years and all that as compelling as they may be on the surface are still PURE conjecture. They dont prove anything.

Hopefully NRS comes out with some kind of statement with regard to what went down.

 

[haketh]

I think this whole thing is actually could end up being healthy for the game. IF. Nrs would step up and address it. But they don't. They just put out fake news about how Spawn will be revealed at Final Kombat. But I will admit yes those of us that think this game was left out of EVO because of it's boring and stale gameplay do not have proof. But the numbers from previous years and all that as compelling as they may be on the surface are still PURE conjecture. They dont prove anything.

Hopefully NRS comes out with some kind of statement with regard to what went down.

Them coming out & saying exactly why would most likely breach a lot of different contracts so that is probably never happening.

 

[theotherguy]

Dude, I just gave a proof.

No, you provided conjecture. It's your word against what others are saying. Proof is actual documentation/evidence that others can independently verify.

I never said you're wrong, and i agreed with your statements in the first line of my reply, but there's not a huge amount of evidence for either side at this moment.

 

[Roy Arkon]

No, you provided conjecture. It's your word against what others are saying. Proof is actual documentation/evidence that others can independently verify.

I never said you're wrong, and i agreed with your statements in the first line of my reply, but there's not a huge amount of evidence for either side at this moment.

How is it just a conjecture? All of those points are historical facts that were proven already, all of those games being or not being at EVO in those years had nothing do with the gameplay or the meta. Nobody said anything against the gameplay or meta of MVCI for it not making it to EVO, nobody said anything the gameplay or meta of DBFZ regarding it almost not making it to EVO either, and by the time the 2013 line-up was announced, IJ1 wasn't even out, so no one could've say anything bad about the gameplay or meta of IJ1 to be the reason for it to not be included in the line-up at that time because people couldn't actually play it at that time in order to experience it.

So again, how is it just a conjecture?

Oh wait, it isn't.

 

[NaCl man]

The numbers show a steady decline in interest in mk11.
Mkx although smaller in numbers did not seem to have a continuous decline in the represented tornament evo aside for obvious reasons being the biggest.

Not dissing the game I don't mind it.

 

[Blade4693]

Ah, actual numbers/data! Thank you!

This further supports my theory that MK11 not being at EVO has nothing to do with low turnout or viewers.

 

[Altaire]

Jesus christ. Thank you. People not liking MK11 is one thing; they're entitled to their opinions. When they follow that up with their "MK11 IS ALREADY DEAD, YOU GUYS JUST HAVEN'T CAUGHT UP YET" rhetoric, that's where it gets ridiculous. If you don't like the game, fine. If you want to vent about how much you don't like the game, fine. You don't need to follow it up by saying the game is also dead, because it's untrue, unnecessary, and just all-around kind of silly.

Really, if you're that determined to go back to MK9, I honestly suggest you get a petition going to have NRS release a typical "MK9 remaster" of some sort, with updated netcode and retouched visuals and blah blah. In all seriousness, I'll bet they'd at least consider it if they saw enough demand for it, because it's a relatively low-effort release. It isn't hard to motivate a developer to put out a game that costs them very little time, money, or manpower, if they think it'll sell. Hell, I'd sign it; partly out of nostalgia, partly out of morbid curiosity, and mostly because I think the bulk of the people clamoring for it would find out that it's not quite the promised land they think it would be.

Also, shoutouts to every person who thought of the very easy, very obvious "yo what about Evo 2020 numbers tho LMAOOOOO" joke, and apparently thought they were breaking new ground lol. Really digging deep with that one, guys.

even though ppl already clarified they were off on the number and that numbers were ZERO of the point, this thread exists. Keep shifting the point to numbers.. this is actually more of a problem. Ignore ppl and beat them over the head with numbers then wonder where so many came out to vent after the EVO announcement.

Speaking of the numbers, wasn't NEC short one entrant, just recently?

Are the numbers still not the point in that case, or...

 

[M2Dave]

Also, shoutouts to every person who thought of the very easy, very obvious "yo what about Evo 2020 numbers tho LMAOOOOO" joke, and apparently thought they were breaking new ground lol. Really digging deep with that one, guys.

I mean, Crimson Shadow has presented the facts in black and white. What else are they supposed to do but troll?

Another rumor that I sometimes read on Twitter is "NRS never listen", yet they normalized Cetrion's far teleport, Geras's up close game, the armor on fatal blows, and the block advantage on jumping attacks. They might not have changed moves the exact way you would have changed them, but they are obviously listening to community feedback in spite of the negativity that is coming in all directions.

 

[Altaire]

I mean, Crimson Shadow has presented the facts in black and white. What else are they supposed to do but troll?

Another rumor that I sometimes read on Twitter is "NRS never listen", yet they normalized Cetrion's far teleport, Geras's up close game, the armor on fatal blows, and the block advantage on jumping attacks. They might not have changed moves the exact way you would have changed them, but they are obviously listening to community feedback in spite of the negativity that is coming in all directions.

The fact that something of this much quality and integrity is an m2dave post is the most surreal experience of 2020 so far, for me.

I wouldn't be surprised if it holds that spot for the rest of the year.

 

[Knobbonk]

Evo has on several times in the past announced a game as one of their main titles well before the game has even released. If you think game quality has literally anything to do with their selection process, you are a special kind of precious angel.

 

[spidey300]

I mean, Crimson Shadow has presented the facts in black and white. What else are they supposed to do but troll?

Another rumor that I sometimes read on Twitter is "NRS never listen", yet they normalized Cetrion's far teleport, Geras's up close game, the armor on fatal blows, and the block advantage on jumping attacks. They might not have changed moves the exact way you would have changed them, but they are obviously listening to community feedback in spite of the negativity that is coming in all directions.

come on dave how long did it take though? and they still letting other stupid stuff rock. not gonna forget how vehemently aggressive you were towards anti airs

 

[spidey300]

well as with the past mk games the tournament numbers for mk11 will dwindle. maybe they'll be reignited with some new found passion after being ejected from evo.

 

[spidey300]

@CrimsonShadow thank you so much for making this thread. The internet is full of so many salty people spreading misinformation regarding a lot of stuff and it's true not just for the MK/NRS community or TYM specifically but to a lot things and franchises in gaming and outside of gaming, all center other then one goal: setting up an agenda.

I can tell you that for example, when it comes to the latest Pokemon games, which are Pokemon Sword and Shield, almost everyone spreads so much misinformation and lies about the games, all because they wanna set their agenda that these games suck when they are actually not, and in the case of YouTubers and gaming "journalists", to get clicks and money as well at their expense. NRS/WB are suffering from the exact same thing, because the community is so entitled and so spoiled that they want NRS games to fit to their specific vision or they just can't handle losing, and when comes something that can even by the slightest prove their agenda right, they jump on the "I told you so" bandwagon and try to deny anything that will prove their agenda false even when the facts that prove that are represented to them.

Now since this thread is all about sharing facts, I got some facts of my own. For any of the internet orgy trolls, both in and out of TYM, that throwing their agenda to make MK11 around the idea that MK11 is not at EVO is solely because of the gameplay and meta of the game, here are some facts that you either didn't know, or you did but you purposely ignore them.

1) On the token for NRS games, EVO didn't wanna put IJ1 in it's main line-up for 2013 because they didn't know if it will sell well enough, so they put MK9 in 2013 because it was a safe bet for them. Then when IJ1 did sell well, they put IJ1 at EVO in addition to MK9. That's why we got both MK9 and IJ1 at EVO in 2013.

2) MVCI didn't make it to the main line-up of EVO for not even one year, and the MVC series is the second most associated franchise with EVO next to SF. And it didn't make it because while both the gameplay and the netcode in this game were awesome, everything else in MVCI sucked donkey balls, so this game was very poorly received among everyone both in and out of the FGC.

3) DBFZ took the place of MVCI in 2018 as the team based fighting game of EVO and it broke the viewership record for EVO, yet DBFZ almost didn't make it to EVO the following year (which was last year) because there were problems money-wise to put the game at EVO, apparently because Shueisha (the company that owns the Dragon Ball franchise) didn't wanna put the money for it, regardless of the viewership record breaking by DBFZ.

All of those facts show games, both NRS and non-NRS ones, going through the process of making to EVO and NONE OF THOSE CASES SHOW ANY RELATION TO THE GAMEPLAY OR THE META OF THOSE GAMES.

So if any of you orgy trolls wanna keep throwing the meta and gameplay of MK11 as the sole reason for it not making to EVO, here's your proof why it's not the case. Combined with the numbers that Crimson brought up, there is no denying that MK11 is at a fantastic place right now and it only goes further. You may prefer any game that you want, but YOU CANNOT DENY FACTS ABOUT THE SUCCESS OF THE GAME AND YOU CANT DENY THE OBJECTIVE HIGH QUALITY OF THE GAMES, BECAUSE THE CORE OF PREFERENCES DOES NOT AFFECT THE OBJECTIVE QUALITY OF THE GAMES.

I've said my piece, so have at it.

yeah but the quality of the "gameplay" is pretty lacking. not like nrs is ever gonna have a non successful mk game. it's mk

 

[Baron Greenback]

Ah, actual numbers/data! Thank you!

This further supports my theory that MK11 not being at EVO has nothing to do with low turnout or viewers.

Only idiots believe that low viewership or a 'dead scene' is the reason it's not at Evo. At any given time of the day, Samurai Shodown has zero viewers on Twitch. Soul Calibur 6 also has struggles. Not saying these games don't deserve to have their moment on the main stage, but it's obvious all the talk about MK11 not being their because no one cares about it is not reflected by some of the games that have been selected.

 

[DarthArma]

I've been seeing a ton of misinformation regarding the tournament turnout of MK11 in majors through this point. So I wanted to actually collect the facts, here in on place, in order to help clear things up.

You often see posts like "turnout is low" or "the tournament scene is dead". So let's look at how MK11 compares to other past games:

Combo Breaker 2015 (MKX) Entrants - 273
Combo Breaker 2017 (INJ2) Entrants - 391
Combo Breaker 2019 (MK11) Entrants - 807

CEO 2015 (MKX) Entrants - 316
CEO 2017 (INJ2) Entrants - 400
CEO 2019 (MK11) Entrants - 531

EVO 2015 (MKX) Entrants - 1,162
EVO 2017 (INJ2) Entrants - 880
EVO 2019 (MK11) Entrants - 1576

ECT 2015 (MKX) Entrants - 90
ECT 2017 (INJ2) Entrants - 122
ECT 2019 (MK11) Entrants - 197

NEC 2015 (MKX) Entrants - 161
NEC 2017 (INJ2) Entrants - 109
NEC 2019 (MK11) Entrants - 90

-----------------------

Now, I've seen comments from people who are specifically referencing the last major, NEC, which is lower turnnout than we've had in the past. I think it's important to remind people that that event, NEC 20, was on the whole drastically diminished from what NEC used to be. This was due to the venue location, the timing of the major (it was Thanksgiving weekend), and the fact that this whole circuit of events is struggling (they weren't included in the Soul Calibur pro tour, for example, and they're not on the CPT or the NRS Pro Tour either). The largest event at NEC had 104 entrants, which is extremely low for a major in 2019.

Just to underscore this point, I'm going to post the ECT/NEC 2019 numbers for all the EVO games, just so people can see how MK11 attendance has been vs. other games even at post-evo majors.

ECT 2019 (October 19-20)
https://smash.gg/tournament/east-coast-throwdown-2019

Mortal Kombat 11: 197 entrants
Street Fighter V: 170 entrants
Tekken 7: 137 entrants
Samurai Shodown: 118 entrants
DBFZ: 114 entrants
Soul Calibur 6: 70 entrants
UNIEL: 59 entrants
Marvel vs. Capcom 2: 3 entrants.

NEC 20:

https://smash.gg/tournament/nec-20-1/events

Soul Calibur 4: 104 entrants
Mortal Kombat 11: 90 entrants
Tekken 7: 90 entrants
DBFZ: 45 entrants
Smash Ultimate: 44 entrants
SF5: 36 entrants
Samurai Shodown: 35 entrants.

We were the biggest game at ECT, and tied for second largest at NEC. I think the numbers speak for themselves, but I think it's clear to see that so far, MK11 attendance has really mainly scaled by the size of the event. When an east coast major gets less than 40 entrants for SFV, I think it's pretty obvious.

----------------------

This post is strictly about tournament numbers. You can think whatever you want about the game's meta -- some will like it and some will not. Some will like it, but still want certain changes for the future.
I've posted my own list of suggestions for improvement in the past: https://testyourmight.com/threads/mk11-wishlist-quality-of-life-fixes.72184/

However, the tournament performance of MK11 should not be in dispute. Both offline and online -- Mr. Aquaman just held an online qualifier that had 280+ entrants and some 7k stream viewers. People like Destroyer have dedicated themselves toward building a passionate online following and community that has its own life outside of majors. And what's more, we should be celebrating this and spreading the word, because those of us who were here since MK9 (or before) remember the time just a few years ago when we were lucky just to get actual main venue floor space, or a stream. We have come a long way.

I encourage everybody, regardless of your different opinions on the game, to at least be accurate when talking about the numbers for the tournament scene. Love you guys. See you around.

To add more to how false the statement of “this game is dead”

I run a monthly event “MKNJ” that just pulled in 63 players one week ago. This is a local event, played completely offline, and had ZERO pot bonus. The players came out because they love the game, and do everything they can to keep the scene strong.

[URL="http://www.smash.gg/mknj7[/URL]"]www.smash.gg/mknj7[/URL]


Not only is there my event, but coach steve runs “the danger zone” a bi-weekly tournament in the Bronx that gets anywhere between 20-30 people.

we do this because we love the scene, and we want to see it grow. The scene today is NOTHING like the old days, As old players leave, more new players step in. Both of our offline events

 

[Marinjuana]

I mean, Crimson Shadow has presented the facts in black and white. What else are they supposed to do but troll?

Another rumor that I sometimes read on Twitter is "NRS never listen", yet they normalized Cetrion's far teleport, Geras's up close game, the armor on fatal blows, and the block advantage on jumping attacks. They might not have changed moves the exact way you would have changed them, but they are obviously listening to community feedback in spite of the negativity that is coming in all directions.

I'm at the point where I think they can listen to the fans too much. The idea that NRS doesn't listen and doesn't respond to fan criticism is just typical internet gamer bullshit.

 

[haketh]

I'm at the point where I think they can listen to the fans too much. The idea that NRS doesn't listen and doesn't respond to fan criticism is just typical internet gamer bullshit.

The only thing NRS does close to this is that they don’t communicate one to one much anymore but who can blame them with how people turn into baboons when they say anything.

 

[KiD INsAnitY]

The fact that Mr.StealUrDonationMoney , has anything to say is hilarious.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Here is another clarification of the facts. A ton of people claiming that MK had poor viewership for EVO last year and keep bringing up that MK11 had only 60K views while SamSho had 100K views, but that is 110% false. That's because that MK, unlike SamSho and other games, was viewed on both YouTube and Twitch, and those 60K views are only the Twitch views. So if you take the YouTube stream views from the official Mortal Kombat YouTube channel, MK also got 252K views on Day 1 and 333K views on Day 2. So combining all of those numbers, MK11 had 645K views overall.

Here is a link to show to you the viewership numbers for MK11 on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MKCommunityManager/search?query=EVO+2019

 

[CY MasterHavik]

There have been bad games at EVO before. Do they really think anyone thinks SF5 is the best? hell, they added BBTAG that had declining numbers during its first year in EVO. but hey, they're going strong too.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Here is another clarification of the facts. A ton of people claiming that MK had poor viewership for EVO last year and keep bringing up that MK11 had only 60K views while SamSho had 100K views, but that is 110% false. That's because that MK, unlike SamSho and other games, was viewed on both YouTube and Twitch, and those 60K views are only the Twitch views. So if you take the YouTube stream views from the official Mortal Kombat YouTube channel, MK also got 252K views on Day 1 and 333K views on Day 2. So combining all of those numbers, MK11 had 645K views overall.

Here is a link to show to you the viewership numbers for MK11 on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/user/MKCommunityManager/search?query=EVO+2019

I didn't even realize this, thanks for pointing that out.

Although I think those numbers are counting views that might have happened after the fact, no?

 

[Roy Arkon]

I didn't even realize this, thanks for pointing that out.

Although I think those numbers are counting views that might have happened after the fact, no?

Yes it counts also views that were not live as well. But then again not everyone can watch it live. I for one can't watch it live regardless if it's Twitch or YouTube because I'm living in Israel, so the time zone doesn't go well with me.