The true reason stage interaction shouldn't be allowed in tournaments

[Rude]

Are we going to gloss over the fact that CD JR said he was, "done" with this thread in his second or third post, but continued to post by propping up those who agreed with him and condescending to every one else that didnt?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Right. And nobody complains about any of it. Not the fans, not the league, not he coaches, not the players. It's part of the game. It adds depth, fun and some spice to it. It makes things interesting. Nobody wants crazy interactables like rooftop Injustice where it's so unfair you don't even have much of a chance. That's why stuff like that got patched. But it's ok to have outside factors that make things interesting. If you want what's 'most fair' then you run into the argument of everyone playing the same character on the same stage ect. which people have already said in this thread and we all agree is boring as hell.

It's ok to have advantages and disadvantages within good taste. That is something Injustice accomplished and MKX it will be even less of a factor (I'm repeating myself now).

I agree with Slips (as fucking always) but I still don't want them on unless they sound really good.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Are we going to gloss over the fact that CD JR said he was, "done" with this thread in his second or third post, but continued to post by propping up those who agreed with him and condescending to every one else that didnt?

Yes

 

[Rude]

So, there is a lot of talk of player advantage in this thread.

Hmm. If you can punish a blocked interactable, or teleport on a read, or bait it, then i don't see a problem.

 

[Kitana Prime]

I said I was done but came back because of the actual players posting.

But I do love how everyone watches these type of threads, and then want to speak after the fact, or just wait and see what happens.
Im a LEADER in my community and wherever I can be so this is worth it for me.

So, @Evil_Riu48 @CD jr and co. we'll just have to agree to disagree for now. It was good discussing this.
We'll see what all the 'leaders' decide since this community is "follow the big names' opinion" anyway. (and that doesnt include me btw)
Do run your scene how you want and the majority is gonna win out anyway when we see what happens during the first month or so during the games life. I look forward to playing all of you in MKX,and hopefully this time around i can match / exceed the success of you guys in MK9.

New game, new start.

April 14th

 

[Kitana Prime]

True and I'm not hella scared but the mechanics that give free interactables still potentially remain.

Quan chi hell bat shit
Sonya drone
Kang orb setups
Raiden orb setups
There are more but I can't remember at the moment.

All in all you can't say with certainty that it WILL NOT affect match ups. In fact It was those exact tools that made the power characters that could abuse them, even able to abuse them.

MMH orbs
Zod trait etc...

They might have even taken notes from trait and gave characters MORE tools that have the potential to abuse interactables in MKX. We just don't know yet. All I am saying is that it is slightly a little naive to assume interactables won't favor certain characters more than others.

Yeah sorry about that, saying 'not affect' directly is 100% wrong. I have to word that better,

 

[Duck Nation]

Let's step outside fighting games for a minute.

Starcraft has a vast variety of maps it's played on, which change the strategy required (or possible) pretty notably. The terrain can favor one player's race more than another's, or it can favor spawn position, and players just have to work around this based on what happens when they get into the game. This is arguably the most successful competitive game in the world.

Or, let's try another: Quake 3. Also has a very distinct set of maps in which stage control is a huge element, and one player is favored over the other at spawn by being closer to certain high-value weapons and powerups more than the other. This is actually a pretty highly similar case to interactables, and it didn't stop Q3 from being a very healthy and robust competitive game.

None of this is unprecedented. If for some reason MKX should need a competitive ruleset banning interactables, it will be because of flawed execution, not an inherently broken idea.

 

[chores]

Right. And nobody complains about any of it. Not the fans, not the league, not he coaches, not the players. It's part of the game. It adds depth, fun and some spice to it. It makes things interesting. Nobody wants crazy interactables like rooftop Injustice where it's so unfair you don't even have much of a chance. That's why stuff like that got patched. But it's ok to have outside factors that make things interesting. If you want what's 'most fair' then you run into the argument of everyone playing the same character on the same stage ect. which people have already said in this thread and we all agree is boring as hell.

It's ok to have advantages and disadvantages within good taste. That is something Injustice accomplished and MKX it will be even less of a factor (I'm repeating myself now).

I understand your argument and I disagree. There are people posting in this thread on both sides that have a much better understanding of fighting games than I do and I'm certain you are one of them. It just depends on if you value 100% equality over the 'spice' of interactables (or think that the "unfairness" it introduces is minimal compared to the fun/value it adds.) I can respect that as a difference of opinion.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Yeah sorry about that, saying 'not affect' directly is 100% wrong. I have to word that better,

slips had a good point though. If the difference is enough to make it just a little bit more interesting then I am cool with it ONLY if it sounds good. A little diversity can give a ton of flare if done well but can also easily ruin the mechanic i.e. injustice.

 

[Spletty]

i don't care either way, but can we stop pointing out the legitimate terms for the fallacies people are committing in arguments? fuck sakes this isn't a courtroom.

 

[Kitana Prime]

Are we going to gloss over the fact that CD JR said he was, "done" with this thread in his second or third post, but continued to post by propping up those who agreed with him and condescending to every one else that didnt?

It's okay. Not to be Rude but...

The reason he keeps coming back (or any of us for that matter)...

...is because he fucking cares. We fucking care. We need to speak about the possibilty of these things. With concrete finishes or not.

 

[TopTierHarley]

Let's step outside fighting games for a minute.

Starcraft has a vast variety of maps it's played on, which change the strategy required (or possible) pretty notably. The terrain can favor one player's race more than another's, or it can favor spawn position, and players just have to work around this based on what happens when they get into the game. This is arguably the most successful competitive game in the world.

Or, let's try another: Quake 3. Also has a very distinct set of maps in which stage control is a huge element, and one player is favored over the other at spawn by being closer to certain high-value weapons and powerups more than the other. This is actually a pretty highly similar case to interactables, and it didn't stop Q3 from being a very healthy and robust competitive game.

None of this is unprecedented. If for some reason MKX should need a competitive ruleset banning interactables, it will be because of flawed execution, not an inherently broken idea.

Lol you know these people don't think outside of the NRS bubble. They most likely won't even acknowledge this post.

 

[M2Dave]

This thread has been exposed as an anti-zoning thread masquerading as an anti-interactable objects thread.

 

[Slips]

I understand your argument and I disagree. There are people posting in this thread on both sides that have a much better understanding of fighting games than I do and I'm certain you are one of them. It just depends on if you value 100% equality over the 'spice' of interactables (or think that the "unfairness" it introduces is minimal compared to the fun/value it adds.) I can respect that as a difference of opinion.

And that's fine. I'll say this though, there's not a game on the planet that doesn't have some sort of outlying or random factor that can change things or give one person an advantage over the other. Even chess the advantage is too the player controlling white. I just think it's silly to take away a fun-factor for the sheer arrogance of believing MKX will be the fairest game we've ever played...but only if we turn off interactbles.

 

[PND OmegaK]

Your usage of big words in a forum intimidate me how about we just let interactables rock AND play that mode with all the assists in tournament cause i mean adding more mechanics that into the game that will change the playing field of player 1 and 2 no matter how big or small the change is OK right? thats it guys LETS PLAY IN TOURNAMENT WITH ASSISTS YES!! at least i can use rains bubble special as assist since he is not in the game as a playable character ya make me laugh let me get back to enjoying life i forgot tym makes me depressed.

The game was built from the ground up with interactables as a key part of it. Assists and other features were tacked on as a bonus game mode towards the end of the games lifespan are obviously there for shits and giggles.

You can exaggerate the argument the other way and suggest that everyone play the same character on the same stage and on the same pads for a completely fair and balanced tournament experience, but that would be stupid also.

 

[Rude]

Can we at least play the game first? Can we find out the block data, the character specific options, the duration of armor for corner escapes BEFORE panicking?

 

[THTB]

Also, I just thought about this.

A game that had a bug where one player always has collision priority over the other, no matter what, lived through 4 EVOs, and was backed by the community on the 4th EVO in terms of pot. And it was largely determined that that advantage was minimal.

Just throwing that out there.

 

[PND OmegaK]

Can we at least play the game first? Can we find out the block data, the character specific options, the duration of armor for corner escapes BEFORE panicking?

Agreed. This goes for both sides of the argument. We haven't got the game in a competitive setting yet, so as interesting as some of the points being raised are, there are so many variables we don't even know about.

 

[n9195v]

We should have a formal nomination for a small group of people to decide for the community.

We should make a thread for nominations.

To nominate a said person, they will need to get nominated and seconded by two members of the community. Everyone is only allowed 1 nomination. After the nominations are made there will be a second thread were we vote on the nominees. An odd number of people will be chosen to decide the fate of intractable in tournament play.

I personally believe something like this is the only answer. I say only tournament players and organizers should be allowed to be nominated.

 

[Kitana Prime]

Also, I just thought about this.

A game that had a bug where one player always has collision priority over the other, no matter what, lived through 4 EVOs, and was backed by the community on the 4th EVO in terms of pot. And it was largely determined that that advantage was minimal.

Just throwing that out there.

Because we - the actual community LOVED MK9 despite terrible bugs, Injustice split it and MKX will be loved once again.
[That last bit is pure conjecture and idgaf, I can feel it - ]
Plus MK9 was NRS' first real intentional venture into the 'competitive' fray.
These are just some hurdles we'll get through. Families 'fight', it's fine.

This just tells you how dangerously close we are to April 14th and NO ONE can wait.

 

[ZigZag]

There's no advantage to interactions when you can block them all.

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

Also, I just thought about this.

A game that had a bug where one player always has collision priority over the other, no matter what, lived through 4 EVOs, and was backed by the community on the 4th EVO in terms of pot. And it was largely determined that that advantage was minimal.

Just throwing that out there.

We couldn't control that, this we can control. If we could have turned that off we would have done so immediately.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

i agree with everybody who says we know little about how they will play.

i can not provide valid proof neither explain my point in an easy way for everybody to understand at this point because the game is not out yet but i will once the game comes out. my gold was to bring out the true reason why we should talk about this.

the only problem i see is that once the game comes out players who think they can benefic from interactable been intournament will never agree to have them ban even if they are super stupid. injustice showed us this. i just don't want history to repeat itself. if when the game comes out we find stages that give player 1 or 2 a position advantage over the other we should ban them it is that simple. we do not need to give them three months to see how they play out at that point... because if at that point we keep saying the lets give them time shit after we know how they really are ... well lets just said that a serious discussion about banning them will never happen

 

[THTB]

We couldn't control that, this we can control. If we could have turned that off we would have done so immediately.

But my point still stands. The advantage was determined to be so minimal and unnoticeable.

We don't know if that advantage is great or not. Based on what we do know about interactables in MKX, indicators point to the very same thing as MK9. But seriously, let's wait until the game comes out and we see the actual impact this has.

 

[Tony at Home]

So the argument is it's a problem because of asymmetry?

The fact that one side of the stage has a piano and the other side of the stage has a spring board is no less an imbalance than the fact that the two characters on the stage are different characters.

Unless you can for certain say there's a very clean cut, strong, calculable advantage- it's not unfair, it's just asymmetrical. At the very least you'd have to show how this is really any different than many characters having to face a Martian Manhunter on the other side of the stage. The other player has something you don't, and might be able to wreck you with it.

I really don't see the issue.