The Super SFIV Super Thread (4-27-2010)

Discussion in 'Street Fighter' started by Juggs, Nov 16, 2009.

  1. EGP Wonder_Chef

    EGP Wonder_Chef Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
    Official ESL Gaming

    Reposting my thoughts from srk.

    First a stupid question then a stupid observation:

    1. Does her forward throw not knock them down? I keep seeing a throw that looks like karakusa but knocks them away.

    2. Pardon me if this has been discussed before in another thread, but why has nobody tried playing makoto like a pseudo Viper? A lot of Viper's mixup game comes from her xx mp tk blockstring and the ability to cancel the Thunder Knuckle and grab, overhead, or instant sjc crossup flame kick instead.

    Assuming you hit a Hayate, couldn't Makoto do the same thing? Imagine mp xx hayate, mp xx start hayate xx cancel, dash forward, Karakusa. Another option would be canceling a Hayate to instant overhead Tsurugi. Some of the options are:
    Forward Dash, Karakusa
    Instant Overhead Tsurugi
    cr.HP sweep
    Some low hitting normal xx Hayate
    Focus Attack to bait reversals/pokes
    Backdash to bait reversals
    Delayed Hayate, to bait reversals/backdashes
    Forward Dash, normal to start bnb/blockchain.

    Obviously, it would suffer from the problem of powerful reversals, but at any point you can use Mak's very good looking backdash and punish a reversal with another Hayate or a U2. Another good point is that canceling a Hayate and going straight into a dash might look a bit like you didn't cancel it, making the opponent want to block like usual.

    In that way, Makoto keeps the opponent guessing while they're standing, somewhat of a vortex.

    Any thoughts? Am I totally (soap bar in my mouth)?
  2. EGP Wonder_Chef

    EGP Wonder_Chef Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
    Official ESL Gaming

    FYI the answer to the first question was yes.
  3. 9.95

    9.95 Noob

    I already have the game(and yes, I am purchasing the real one one the 27th... so I don't wanna hear any piracy complaining). Let me also say that for some reason, SSFIV is FAR superior to SFIV. The game just feels better and even though its the same engine, so were SFA2 and SFA3, as well as SF3/2nd Impact vs. 3s. Same basic engine, different animals.

    Makoto plays extremely differently than her 3s incarnation.

    Here's what Dark Rob and I noticed about her:

    -First of all, she is MUCH MUCH MUCH slower than in 3s.
    -Her forward dash, however, is stupid fast.
    -Standing MK doesn't work as an AA as it did in 3s, at least not the same way or the timing is MUCH tighter.
    -No more Hayate into Karakusa. She has a small animation after the Hayate that stops this from happening.
    -Haven't found any kara moves yet... (in 3s that was her game, kara-hayate for range and kara-karakusa for extra range command grab.) Edit: Apparantly, it seems some people have learned how to kara-hayate and possibly kara-karakusa... as soon as I get the chance I will read up and see if I can get them working.
    -As in 3s, she is a beast up close and can dish out severe damage very quickly off of her knockdown mixups but from a distance she is difficult to use, is easily zoned because of her walking speed,
    -Her tick throw game will be important in this game, especially tick-karakusa.

    Chef, as for your questions, Rob and I went through all but her final trial challenge(some of them are very difficult and her last one I will get but it's very difficult) and I will try to answer them for you.

    1. Her forward "throw" is actually a headbutt and no, it does not knock down.
    2. You cannot play Makoto like Viper in any way. She is just WAY too slow. You must get inside for her to be effective. She has virtually no distance game. The instant air Tsurugi is also not very safe. Blocked or whiffed = Makoto at a distance...and at a distance = Dead Makoto. xx hayate or chop mixup still works, and can now also be mixed up with cr.lp into tick karakusa, or tick ex karakusa. That seems to be the main game with her for now.

    Regarding her options off of a connected Hayate: Makoto has a new small animation after a Hayate where she puts herself back into her fighting stance. This virtually nullifies most of her options, possibe with the exception of a FADC in terms of a follow up move that will connect. Some block strings work but they push her away and that is definitely not what you want with Makoto. Right now, again, it seems as if after connected Hayate, your best options are the EX overhand chop(for knockdown if you connect which gives you your 50/50 mixup again), cr.lp to ex chop, cr.lp to tick Karakusa. Most of her options and attacks come off the Karakusa, so what you're really looking for are ways to hit the Karakusa(command grab choke for those who don't know what it is).

    Makoto SHOULD be able to compete with zoning characters if she can get inside. Speed characters who can run away from her might give her a problem but I think her biggest problems are going to come from T. Hawk and Zangief, as they play so similarly to her and are definitely stronger.

    This info, however, is all based on a couple hours playtime with her, so this is all my first impression with her.
  4. 9.95

    9.95 Noob

    Rob, we are all now waiting on you to give us your first impressions of Juri. I can give some impressions later(don't have the time now) but Rob definitely played alot more of her than I did. I will say this... she's very weak in terms of damage she dishes out, but can move around the screen so fast(walking speed is deceptively slow though) that it makes up for it in terms of how confusing she can be and how quickly she can dish out small amounts of damage. She also has a buttload of ways to combo into her Ultra 2.
  5. Dark_Rob

    Dark_Rob Noob

    Ok, so like Phil said we got to play SSF4 for like 5 hours last night. In addition to what Phil said about Makoto in regards to her being vulnerable to zoning, yes she definately is, as Ryu i was able to zone the hell out of her. BUT all she needs is one chance to get in and do a tick karakusa>super>ultra for really massive damage. The super power up adds so much to the ultras damage it can really turn the match around like that. Also in regards to fireballs,(and il double check this tonight) I believe EX-Hayate goes through fireballs. Also EX Hayate is LIGHTNING fast,( and I mean really really fast so you dont even need great reactions to punish fireballs with it if it does go through them). My initial reaction to Makoto is that shes a power hitter who can be devastating up close and deal alot of damage quickly, but getting in on a character like Ryu,Akuma,Sagat,Seth will be really hard and take alot of patience.

    While Phil was getting to know Makoto I was getting to know Juri. First off, Juri is alot of fun. My first reaction was that she had alot of really great moves.(dive kicks, pinwheel kicks all lead into damaging combos) and she does......when they hit! When they dont your in trouble. Practically none of Juri's special moves are safe on block and she can be punished severely for missing them. But if you play her with some patience and dont go recklessly trying to hit them and look for opportunites she fares alot better. I think shes gonna very much be a hit and run character. Her backdash is SICK! It puts Rose's backdash in SF4 to shame. Her pinwheel kicks seem to work well as an anti air and seem to have decent priority. I tried hitting her ultra 2 off pinwheel but they have to much recovery time. Not to worry though she has a bunch of ways to combo into her ultra. Though it doesnt work as an anti air by itself, if you AA J.MP you can hit a 2nd j.MP into EX Dive kicks into ultra. The cool thing about EX dive kicks is no matter where you are on the stage the end of the moves acts like a wall bounce and juggles your opponent back at you from the (imaginary) wall, time this right and its a guaranteed ultra 2. Also a really simple combo is J.MP>LK.Dive kick>ultra. The first hit of the dive kick juggles them and if your quick you can hit ultra right there. We also figured out she has a good way around fireballs, even from full screen. simply neutral jump and quickly hit HK.Dive kick to crack them in the head. Her fireball game is somewhat different than your traditional Hadoken, Tiger shit type of projectile. There pretty useless if you try to use them that way because they are WAY to slow. BUT what you can do is save them. if you execute QCF+K and thien hold the kick button she does the animation but holds on to the fireball. As long as you continue to hold the kick button she will hold on to the fireball until you release it.When you release it comes out pretty much instantaniously. I think this will be good at the end of block strings to keep them safe. And with Juris nasty back dash it should be no problem to get the space you need to do the fireball motion and store it for later. Also her focus attack seems decent and moves her a good distance foward. Its kind of similar to cammy's FA from SF4. Her life bar seems meh...ok at best... its not Akuma bad but she aint Ryu either. Dont fuck up to much with her.Her normals seem pretty good. shes alot more kick based than other characters. In fact her Fierce HP is actually a kick.(I had to double check and make sure my buttons were set right lol) I need to do some more research with her tonight, Ive got some ideas Im gonna try out in the training room and Il edit this post with any other things I discover.

    And now a word about Ryu. I played him to and WOW. Homeboy got hit with the nerf bat hard. First and foremost, DRAGON PUNCH IS ASS! its priority went WAY down. It trades with what seems like everything. Now I know damage got lowered all across the board but OMFG DP>FADC>Ultra 1(metsu fireball) barely makes a scratch. Its still his most versatile ultra but the damage is garbage once you FADC into it.Ultra 2 while somehwhat harder to hit is an excellent anti air, executes pretty quickly and does ALOT more damage. Also much to my surprise if you use it as an anti air you still get the full ultra. So no jumping at Ryu when he has his ultra 2 cocked and loaded folks. Also you cant hit ultra 1 off a DP trade anymore.(which is a shame cuz all DP is good for now is trades.) Beyond that not much else changed for him. He still has mostly all the same tools, they just either arent as effective as they once were or do alot less damage. Hes still very solid and Id say hel still be a top tier character in SSF4. Hes just nowhere near the monster he was in SF4.
  6. Krayzie

    Krayzie Safeties disabled. Krayzie mode engaged!

    You guys both better join MKE's SSFIV Release tournament! lol

    I'm gonna get to play it today. I'm just waiting on my brother to get home to borrow the car. I'm really loving Ibuki from what I have seen on the stream.
  7. THTB

    THTB #IDoMachines

    x THTB x

    Ultra 1 for Juri is likely gonna end up being better than Ultra 2, especially considering you can combo from overhead while in it for respectable damage.
  8. Dark_Rob

    Dark_Rob Noob

    I agree. In addition to what was shown in the video she can link nearly all her standing normals effortlessly. Chain a pinwheel kick at the end of a 6 or 7 hit normal combo and youve got big big damage. And like in the video you can start this mess off of her overhead. Her Ultra 2 is very good to because it is easily comboed into from EX-Dive kick(anywhere) or Dive kick(near the corner to juggle them off the wall) Im loving Juri so far, shes alot of fun to play.
    I think some high level player will find a way to really abuse Ultra 1 to. The possibilities are many.
  9. oBryant

    oBryant Noob

    How bout you guys actually play the game first.. stop all this theory fighter. juri is trash so far.
  10. Dark_Rob

    Dark_Rob Noob

    What do you mean? Ive been playing it for 4 days straight. And Juri is nice.
  11. EGP Wonder_Chef

    EGP Wonder_Chef Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
    Official ESL Gaming

    Reports from top players say that she is not.

    Also, since I'll be getting Super tomorrow and going to the fight club, does anyone want me to test anything in super for them?

    Also, since Daigo will be there, how do you think I should go about stealing his skill?

    Aso, since Ono will be there, should I punch him in the nuts? SEICHUSEN GODANZUKI!
  12. Dark_Rob

    Dark_Rob Noob

  13. Tim Static

    Tim Static Adminerator


    BOSSETTE Premium Supporter
    Premium Supporter

    i played this for the first time at best buy lol :p
  15. Solo

    Solo Shadow Priest
    Premium Supporter

    Did you like it?

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