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Red Son

Red Son

Noob
Hi everyone, most people have noticed the Bottom 5 Project, that was been started by Pig of the Hut. It looks like Sub Zero is one of the worsts characters in the game, or the people think he's. So, I've remembered that he have a clone in mk3 that hits people while he's hitting someone.

I think that the EN. Ice Clone is a waste of meter, If it did that, could enlarge sub zero's damage.


What do you guys think?
 
charlieonline

charlieonline

Search "CaseyJones" for active profile.
man i'd love to see that jik air clone combo work in mk9 its so badass... wish nrs removed the proximity on clone
 
Bidu

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
Worse of the game? Nah, there's some others worse. Not the best, but not the worse, that's for sure.

About Ice Clone, yeah, maybe it would make him overpower in MK9. I'm not sure, a lot of test would've to be dedicated to check this. But that's a good idea.
 
CURBOLICOUS

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
Definately not the worst. Tom Brady is a great sub zero but is way to cautious. i play a mean sub zero and i never bring him to practice mode. i can say hes definately atleast top 10-12, NOT bottom 5
 
Theme

Theme

Noob
Honestly, having played my friends Sub Zero hundreds of times (not even exaggerating, hundreds..) I can safely say that Sub Zero is in my top 5. Hes just that good if used right.
 
Red Son

Red Son

Noob
I didn't say the worst, I said one of the worsts. Tom Brady is a beast with Sub Zero, so it doesn't count. Sub Zero have a lot of bad matchups.

and accord of this thread --> http://testyourmight.com/threads/bottom-5-character-project.13275/
31 persons voted sub zero as a top 5 bottom, and accord to this he's also the bottom 6.

So I think that the NRS could put that in the game and he would still be balanced.
There's damage scaling and you can't juggle people forever, so it could be a use for EN Ice Clone I think.

Also you don't have infinite meter.
 
ChuckFiasco

ChuckFiasco

"I'm the 12th best Sub-Zero player in the world."
I think to get SZ up on the tier list he needs

1. Faster ice blast. Christ is feels like it take an lifetime to send a chunk of ice at someone in open space.
2. Faster ground ice. Talk about slow. I've charged up car batteries faster than the start up on that move.
3. Fix the glitch where you pop a clone out in open space and it acts as if you were right next to the other player. Kinda rare, but the problem is there.
4. Maybe some armor on the EX ice blast?


I dont know. Im an idiot. But I just think he needs to be sped up in general.
 
charlieonline

charlieonline

Search "CaseyJones" for active profile.
Sub needs a way around zoning. So either slide going under projectiles or putting armor on his ice blast would help. Personally I would prefer slide ducking projectiles properly.

Second, I think adding a faster start up to ice blast and ice puddle would help in addition to making ice puddle cancelable just for some flash. It wouldn't hurt if ice puddle remained on the ground as long as cyrax/scz bombs do. Could add another dimension to Sub.
 
SunnyD

SunnyD

24 Low Hat!
^^ stick to the topic guys... lets not make another thread bitchin about the buffs sub needs when he's fine as it is.

About the ice clone... stuff like mid combo clones to freeze would look too cartoony or fake to me. Really if you want to up your damage other than using ex slide, use Ex freeze, it actually has less scaling, which was a nice surprise to me. Its only by a few percent, by hey, better than nothing.
 
Bidu

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
Red Son said:
I didn't say the worst, I said one of the worsts. Tom Brady is a beast with Sub Zero, so it doesn't count. Sub Zero have a lot of bad matchups.

and accord of this thread --> http://testyourmight.com/threads/bottom-5-character-project.13275/
31 persons voted sub zero as a top 5 bottom, and accord to this he's also the bottom 6.

So I think that the NRS could put that in the game and he would still be balanced.
There's damage scaling and you can't juggle people forever, so it could be a use for EN Ice Clone I think.

Also you don't have infinite meter.
Click to expand...
Sure it counts, dude. Sure it counts. :)

I mean, the fact is: Sub-Zero is one of the most, if not THE most, easy character of this game to master (skill wise, i'm talking about execution here). I can't think of a character that has combos that are easier to execute than Sub-Zero's. All the rest comes from personal experience and mind game. Honestly there's absolutely nothing that Tom Brady does with the character that I don't. Heck, I even do stuff that he doesn't. Obviously he has traveled around the U.S. a lot and participated in a shitload of major tournaments what makes him a better player than I am, simply because he reads his opponents better than I would and because he has a large experience with SZ's match ups.

Anyways, SZ really FUCKED UP match ups imo are: Kung Lao, Kabal and Kitana. Bad match ups but winnable: Mileena, Noob, Freddy, Sindel and Shang Tsung. Yes, it's indeed a lot of bad matchups. But still I don't consider SZ to be the bottom 6 in that list.

I fell sorry every time I see someone saying "Sub-Zero is fine the way he is". He isn't. It's a well know fact by any average Sub-Zero player. Heck, by any average MK9 player. I believe he is the only character of the game that has a useless special (aka Ice Puddle). His strings are slow as fuck (with the exception of 2,2 obviously). Some characters like Raiden and Cyber SZ can punish real hard if a SZ player attempt to do 212 against them, for instance. He doesn't have strings with variations of low, high. His Ice Blast is slow as fuck, plus the enhanced version is nearly useless against a lot of character. His Ice Clone is not so powerful anymore like it used to be since NRS gave armor away like candy to everyone in the cast and obviously the enhanced version is useless. I don't like the idea of enhanced Ice Clone with no proximity limit, but that's me. I believe that it would be better that in addition to the longer period of time that enhanced Ice Clone has it would be nice if it could freeze armored moves also, so my opponents would have a reason to fear me while in the corner.
 
CptXecution

CptXecution

Brain Dead Bro
Sub's corner game alone is top 3 with the options you have if you 212 clone in the corner or even the panic factor of people trying to get out of the corner (wake up attacks, jumping into clones or wasting meter) people will do anything to get out of the corner and it's a win win for Sub. But as a character he's the EASIEST to execute combos with BUT takes a TOOONNNN of experience to use him at a high tournament level. I've had the pleasure of facing Brady in a mirror match at Season's Beatings (if anyone was watching it was on stream). I took a round from both matches and his experience in the match up showed way more than mine. I got extremely impatient over time EVEN AFTER WINNING THE VERY FIRST ROUND. (ironically enough the announcers were confused as to who was who because I had won the first round and I use MK3 Sub). It takes time and experience with Sub but it's well worth it. Not anyone can just pick up Sub and use him in matches it take a lot of time and work to use him at a high level. Bottom 5 character? For the average user yes but not a high level player he just has ANNOYING match ups.
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
I say he is probably about 10nth worst. I dont think he is fine, but the real problem is that sub zero is so hard to buff without making him too good that he is as close to balanced as they are going to get him. This idea is pretty good as it would increase his damage output and help him vs low hitbox characters, but then matchups like johnny cage would be even more one sided because of subs ability to get a life lead, and jcs low hitbox wouldnt be ax=s much of a factor. Subby z is still quite viable right now, he just has a lot of stupid matchups.
 
Panque

Panque

Random foreign guy
The only thing i'm sure is that SZ is bottom 16. He isn't a beast in anything really.
Characters that are better than him at:
Corner game: Jax, Cage. Hell, a good part of the top tier can't even be cornered...
Pressure: Kabal, Cage, Sonya (Liu Kang? I think so). The list probably goes on. Quan Chi comes to mind
Pokes: Maybe the only thing he is actually that good. But Mileena and Kitana are just as good. Pokes aren't that much of a big deal tho.
AA: KL, Jax (Cage and ermac?).

Plus he has an useless special move, laughable damage, slow strings, slow slide that doesn't goes under most projectiles, no safe :en move to get close to his opponents and etc.
 
STB Sgt Reed

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Puddle is useless... why can't it be used to stay on the floor and make them slip like it used to in the older games?
 
Salad Petresky

Salad Petresky

Noob
Alright, sub zero is bad. He might/ might not be bottom 5 but he is a bad character. Now im not talking about brady or shoryuken subzero because obviously they are good players (I also know Big D's night wolf, piece of shit character, good player). Im talking about SUB ZERO, he is a bad character. Sub corner game isnt even that good considering you can just armor that shit, and worst thing is 224 string is bad in the corner. Not considering his overhead ice blast and slide mix ups are risky.
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Noob
He's not really "bad" as in shitty character that can't win.

I think it's more like he's not tourney viable anymore in the current meta-game. Almost every top tier character wrecks him. So it's getting almost impossible to win a tournament with Sub alone.
 
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