The obvious flaws of the no round system

[Ramon]

I dont think the system is flawed what so ever.

Look at the last game where chris comes back against me to even up the rounds! Like TYP said. If you want scrubby comeback mechanics like X-factor and other shit, then you are playing the wrong game!

 

[AK Harold]

Really do love the days when players dictated balance and tiers through years of gameplay instead of demanding changes. If a game was unplayable you stopped playing it or understood how stupid it was and play it.

 

[RoGE]

You have to WORK for your comebacks, that's how it should always be.

 

[TaffyMeat]

People seem to think that IGUA game mechanic is a prelude to MK10.
LoooL
Maybe.... MK10 will have no meter. Go back to it's roots like MK1..... Gasp!
My point is that every game is different.

 

[Crazykitana]

Vulcan always has something to complain about.
injustice its its own game stop comparing to other fighters.
the system in the game is fine i believe there is a comeback factor.
there is no need to introduce a round system what so ever.
injustice does have comeback factor.
its called making good reads in succession.
the reason you would be at a healthy disadvantage to begin with is because you made bad reads.
i feel my only problem with this game is that the matches are to fast they need to add another health bar.
i think that would be great if another health bar was introduced.

 

[xWildx]

I absolutely agree. As soon as it was announced that Injustice had no rounds, and what amounts to a single lifebar, the first thought that popped into my head was, "But they stopped doing that YEARS ago. There was probably a reason."

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

I absolutely agree. As soon as it was announced that Injustice had no rounds, and what amounts to a single lifebar, the first thought that popped into my head was, "But they stopped doing that YEARS ago. There was probably a reason."

KI is going with the same thing.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

With Grundy, sometimes I really like the idea of one life bar. When I get the life lead on a zoner and can get my chip trait going, I NEED the keep that life lead and use the clock to win.

But the unfortunate downside is that if the opposite happens, Its imposible to make a comeback. I don't know how to fix it.

 

[Matix218]

I agree with everything in the original post

 

[McNasty]

No, better defense and knowing when to go in on your opponent is how you make a comeback. Lots of characters do plenty of damage especially with interactables. People just hate that lame playstyles. Life leads and knock downs(kinda) are rewarded like they should be in this game.

 

[ceemurda]

Injustice can have it's flawed system. But don't put that shit in MK. I'm pretty sure (Also hoping) that NRS will keep their promise and keep the 2 games apart.

I'm sure MK10 will be a lot like MK9 keeping the EN , Breaker , XRay mechanic just polishing the bugs and adding new characters.

Also, I put "also hoping" in parentheses 'cause I feel like NRS tends to break their promises.

They didnt keep they promise because scorpions in the game lol... They basically killed the hype putting him in it

 

[redeyes]

1) you guys gotta stop linking chris g video's its fucking chris g youre talking about

2) say superman gets you into the 2nd bar of life and he has say 20% or so left whats stopping him from being extremely lame and shooting lasers alll day at you chiping you (setting you full screen again if you get hit by 1) gaining meter for super etc. we saw this at top 8 at evo Reo vs theo. shit was so boring and reo had no hope at all.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Vulcan always has something to complain about.
injustice its its own game stop comparing to other fighters.
the system in the game is fine i believe there is a comeback factor.
there is no need to introduce a round system what so ever.
injustice does have comeback factor.
its called making good reads in succession.
the reason you would be at a healthy disadvantage to begin with is because you made bad reads.
i feel my only problem with this game is that the matches are to fast they need to add another health bar.
i think that would be great if another health bar was introduced.

lol adding a 3rd life bar would only make things worse. You're on red health and I still have blue. You have 30% red and I still have 70% green..

If anything, not resetting the health bars only hurts low-mid tier characters by making their bad matchups worse.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

You have to WORK for your comebacks, that's how it should always be.

Implying Xian, Haitani, PR Rog and Justin Wong are not really working for their comebacks..

I'm sorry but it's way scrubbier to think that way. Things like Ultra in AE or Rage in TTT2 is just an option that you have to respect. Scrubs are the ones really complaining about it because they like pressing buttons too much on wake up and they love jumping around (they're too impatient) and then get hit by what they call "random ultra" and cry about it. They feel cheated and feel like they deserved to win more because they are obviously more skilled. But truth is they should've played more careful and they should've been aware of the threat in the first place. All they had to do is not jump or not press buttons and they would have won. They simply got outplayed.

And obviously there is a difference between Supers and something like X-factor/Rage. You work for and manage your meter while X-factor/Rage is just there for you when you're losing. I don't think there's anything wrong with making all Supers and all Traits much better.

Gotta love those Injustice players saying comeback mechanics are scrubby when they pick Metropolis Rooftop Black Adam/Supes, Mess Hall Scorpion or pick Killer Frost and camp next to the dumpster. Real credible guys. You really made me laugh, thanks.

 

[THTB]

I personally like the things no rounds bring. Yes, this means high damage or a vortex is definitely more rewarding in the metagame, but forcing you to play solid on a much more consistent basis is something I like to see. From a viewer standpoint, this sucks, but YOU are playing the game, not them. Not to mention, it makes the idea of both players playing well throughout, or a comeback that much more exciting.

In all honesty, I wouldn't consider Ultras that powerful of a comeback mechanic anymore. It's not like vanilla, where everyone falls for walk up DP FADC anymore, and getting your ultra to land requires good reads or comboing nowadays. X-Factor is the only reason comebacks are so prevalent in Marvel, however, which is fucking stupid no matter how you try to prop up the excitement in it. Exciting? Yes. Stupid as fuck? Better believe it.

 

[KingHippo]

What I don't get is the common complaint with the new generation of fighters is that they have comeback mechanics like X-Factor or say Ultras (Although, again, this particular one has weakened) that are ultra scrubby and only are there to help bad players make artificial comebacks. People pine for the days of yore like CvS2 and GG and MvC2 where you had to be a real master and make a comeback.

Now it's fuckin awful and boring and scrubby and we need people to do full retard damage or else there is no hype? To quote Orson Welles, c'mon fellas, you're losing your heads here.

 

[AugustAPC]

I like it. I make plenty of comebacks after being down an entire lifebar. Don't change it. Different is good.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Ok, so it seems to be 50/50 on the round system. A lot of people say it's ok for Injustice but don't want to see that crap in MK10.

A majority of people don't want X-factor/Rage type comeback mechanics in Injustice 2. I was only considering it for balance + the hype it can bring to the game. Obviously, it shouldn't be as retarded as it is in Marvel, but I believe it's possible to design it so that it stays fair and reasonable. There is a middle ground somewhere, a sweet spot (ex: somewhere between AE supers and AE Ultras/TTT2 Rage). Something you have to work for like meter, but gives you more punish options like Ultra).

The main thing I don't like is how Superman/Green Arrow have access to this incredible Super while everyone else has like really bad or subpar ones. Nobody seems to really care about it since "it's just supers, who cares about supers". But I don't think those people understand how important it is to represent the Super threat. But it's something pretty much reserved to Superman right now. To me, it's as if Supes was the only character in the game with an Ultra.

But aside from the round and comeback mechanics, can we all agree that Cyborg, Deathstroke, Harley etc. should have much better traits? Every character's trait should be like "DAMN that trait is good". I feel all characters gameplans should be centered around their trait.

 

[KingHippo]

You keep losing me at the hype argument. Is there anyone that thinks it's hype when XF3 Logan or Vergil tears through a team in Marvel? Or Bob landing a stray hit into death combo in T6? Does it EVER not come across as a shallow way of stacking the odds in favor of the underdog?

I understand that it's not fun or easy to watch a guy down on his very last bar struggling to fight a guy with half his first bar throwing shit at him, but that's the nature of the game. A game should not be balanced for the people watching it, it should be based around the players that play it, and players that made so many mistakes as to have such a ridiculous life disadvantage should in no way be rewarded with an extremely powerful buff to help them undo that situation. It's just idiotic.

 

[RoGE]

You keep losing me at the hype argument. Is there anyone that thinks it's hype when XF3 Logan or Vergil tears through a team in Marvel?

Which is not nearly as impressive as this:

 

[Vulcan Hades]

You keep losing me at the hype argument. Is there anyone that thinks it's hype when XF3 Logan or Vergil tears through a team in Marvel? Or Bob landing a stray hit into death combo in T6? Does it EVER not come across as a shallow way of stacking the odds in favor of the underdog?

I understand that it's not fun or easy to watch a guy down on his very last bar struggling to fight a guy with half his first bar throwing shit at him, but that's the nature of the game. A game should not be balanced for the people watching it, it should be based around the players that play it, and players that made so many mistakes as to have such a ridiculous life disadvantage should in no way be rewarded with an extremely powerful buff to help them undo that situation. It's just idiotic.

No. First of all learn to read. My last post was very clear and yet you still bring up Marvel X-factor and T6 Rage because you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. I was specifically talking about comeback mechanics NOT as retarded as those and more in the vein of Supers/Ultras and TTT2 rage (which doesn't work like T6 btw). So I'm not gonna waste time with your strawman arguments.

Second, SFxT = the new CvS2

Do people like that game? I personally LOVE IT. But mr.Wizard hates it. Every other community hates it. It gets zero stream time. It doesn't have viewers, it doesn't have numbers, it doesn't even have a community yet. It's an online game, offline scenes are non-existent. Infiltration made Justin Wong look like a complete fraud in EVO 2013 grand finals. Nobody wants to see it back at the next EVO except for top players who love the game. It's basically on life support and is only being kept alive by AE top players because SFxT community is too lazy to do anything at all. SRK boards are a wasteland.

Like Sabin once said: A game can be amazing and be the best fighter ever, but in the end it's the community that matters more. If a game has a bad or not very solid community then the game being legit doesn't mean much.

MK9 community > SFxT community

Marvel = random. Very fast paced. The best player doesn't always win. Very hype.
SFxT = emphasis on footsies and reads. Slow paced. The best player always wins. Fun to play, boring to watch.

Those 2 games are complete opposites. But games like AE, KOF and Melee are kind of in the middle: fun to play and watch, still hype, huge growing community, international comp etc. etc. etc. I want Injustice and MK10 to be like that, in the sweet middle.

As much as people hate to admit it, hype does matter. It's what brings people together and what makes things like EVO exciting. It's what makes a community grow. MK9 at EVO was hype, Injustice at EVO was getting booed. Stream monsters matter. They are the viewers and they are the ones who decide which games get stream time or not. The community matters. It's what decides how long a game lives or how quickly it dies.

I also used to think that SFxT didn't need a good community or hype or stream time. It was a great game and that's all that mattered. I was wrong.

 

[chessmaster]

No. First of all learn to read. My last post was very clear and yet you still bring up Marvel X-factor and T6 Rage because you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. I was specifically talking about comeback mechanics NOT as retarded as that and more in the vein of Supers/Ultras and TTT2 rage (which doesn't work like T6 btw). So I'm not gonna waste time with your strawman arguments.

Second, SFxT = the new CvS2

Do people like that game? I personally LOVE IT. But mr.Wizard hates it. Every other community hates it. It gets zero stream time. It doesn't have viewers, it doesn't have numbers, it doesn't even have a community yet. It's an online game, offline scenes are non-existent. Infiltration made Justin Wong look like a complete fraud in EVO 2013 grand finals. Nobody wants to see it back at the next EVO except for top players who love the game. It's basically on life support and is only being kept alive by AE top players because SFxT community is too lazy to do anything at all. SRK boards are a wasteland.

Like Sabin once said: A game can be amazing and be the best fighter ever, but in the end it's the community that matters more. If a game has a bad or not very solid community then the game being legit doesn't mean much.

MK9 community > SFxT community

Marvel = random. The best player doesn't always win. Very hype.
SFxT = emphasis on footsies and reads. The best player always wins. Fun to play, boring to watch.

Those 2 games are complete opposites. But games like AE, KOF and Melee are kind of in the middle: fun to play and watch, still hype, huge growing community, international comp etc. etc. etc.

As much as people hate to admit it, hype does matter. It's what brings people together and what makes things like EVO exciting. MK9 at EVO was hype, Injustice at EVO was getting booed. Stream monsters matter. They are the viewers and they are the ones who decide which games get stream time or not. The community matters. It's what decides how long a game lives or how quickly it dies.

I also used to think that SFxT didn't need a good community or hype or stream time. It was a great game and that's all that mattered. I was wrong.

I enjoy watching sfxt and hate watching marvel(don't play either).

 

[BookOfTheBlack]

MK9 at EVO was hype, Injustice at EVO was getting booed. Stream monsters matter. They are the viewers and they are the ones who decide which games get stream time or not.

MK9 went through it's Finals on Day 1 with nothing else waiting in the wings to be streamed. Everyone in the stream chat and the audience was there purely to watch MK9. Injustice got booed because the 'WHENS MAHVEL' crowd was in attendance waiting for the only game they cared about all weekend. Did you stay for Killer Instinct after Injustice? That game got MARTYRED for our sins by the monsters. I guess what i'm trying to say is that it's useless to compare the reception that MK9 and Injustice got at EVO. MK9 had it's own niche in stream time and audience. Injustice didn't have that benefit. It played with the big dogs in the yard.

If we're being real about Stream viewers though; MK9 barely pulled 30k for finals, most of the day hovered at 15k viewers. Injustice was at 30k for pools and 114k for top 8.

 

[Gurpwnder]

People pine for the days of yore like CvS2 and GG and MvC2 where you had to be a real master and make a comeback.

To be fair, CVS2's K-groove was fairly popular - yet it's meter system was VERY similar to SF4's ultras (gain meter through damage or just defends / focus).

 

[KingHippo]

No. First of all learn to read. My last post was very clear and yet you still bring up Marvel X-factor and T6 Rage because you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. I was specifically talking about comeback mechanics NOT as retarded as those and more in the vein of Supers/Ultras and TTT2 rage (which doesn't work like T6 btw). So I'm not gonna waste time with your strawman arguments.

Stop with your phony "You're ignoring my POINT" shit and look again. I specifically said, why the hell should any game have a mechanic where there is a buff given to a guy who's on the receiving end of a beating? I brought up Marvel and T6 because those are the most egregious missteps, but TTT2 and SF4 have it too. Why should the game reward a person not winning because they're not winning? You brought up SFxT and I agree with you that the two mechanics it has that could even remotely be comeback mechanics (Cross Assault and Pandora) are only little things that still rely on the other guy having to outplay his opponent with the life lead to fight back. So we got Injustice, which has what I feel is decent in the Clash/Wager system that lets you get a little bit of life, maybe 25, 33% back (Much like Cross Assault) in order to get some momentum going and start your comeback. Why is more needed? I would argue most good characters do about 40% in their main combos; making a comeback is difficult because IT SHOULD BE. Do you get where I'm coming from here?

It's not hype to watch Justin chip someone out with hail storm. It's not hype to watch Infiltration hurl air fireballs to stall for time. It's not hype to watch KDZ hurl lasers while the other guy struggles to manuever them. But you also have to ask, how did that situation come to be, and how could it have been avoided. Enough with this talking point that the game ain't hype because the other guy has to work hard when he's down on his back.