The obvious flaws of the no round system

[Circus]

I don't think there is a problem with it at all.

But if a game has this engine it requires that the balance of the game to be incredibly close. Which in all honesty it's just not.
It's almost there, sure, but it's not.

I still wouldn't call it a problem though.

 

[miloPKL]

nah i like it the way it is thank you

 

[The Borax Kid]

I think asking for a few tweaks to the system is more helpful (like BotB suggesting that traits don't reset after a lost health bar) than hating on the whole thing which we are stuck with.

There are still at least 4 patches left, so don't give up yet on potential improvements before this is all over.

 

[Sasarix]

I agree with the OP i prefer the round system

 

[funkdoc]

i think harley belongs in the "good super" group, especially after her recent buffs. right now people are wasting waaayyyyy too much meter on gunshots when they would easily get more out of super & clashes

also the lack of obvious comeback mechanics is one of the main things that drew me to NRS games in the first place, as someone who's been around a while and hates the direction capcom took there. really i despise the entire concept of designing a competitive game mainly for spectators, and if they add anything like this for future games i won't be buying them. i def know i'm in the minority on this one, just figured i'd give a different perspective.

i do agree with bildslash's suggestion for clashes, though i would like to keep the relative amounts of life gained the same - i like the idea of your "bang for your buck" getting worse with each bar spent. not sure how i feel about improving supers, but that's because of other personal opinions i know nobody on here will agree with lol

 

[Akromaniac27]

Only a true master starts at 8:30.

As much as I enjoy watching Chris G play, this is a very poor example if you want to show the "comeback factor" for this game. It's only strengthening the OP's point, which I do agree with. First off, he is using Green Arrow, a zoner that can hit you pretty much anywhere on the screen for at least guaranteed chip. Second, as the OP stated, GA with full meter can perform a 50% combo, which obviously in itself is a great comeback, however not every character can do that in this game, nor does every character have a full screen projectile in this game so they can at least have some guaranteed chip. And this all ties in because those that have no projectiles, like the threads being made about it, have a really hard time getting in due to no dash blocking, and mainly because of pushblock. The argument goes "just wait for the zoner to slip up, and BOOM punish." I find this hard to believe when the zoners' recover so quickly in this game and the hits have pushback on it while also doing significant chip in a game where only specials are doing the true chip damage. Take Catwoman for example. Yes she has a full screen MBdash, however it is full combo punishable on block, and though it is fast, if you anticipate it which lbsh, isn't hard to see coming at all, she won't be getting you with it. Not to mention it will only take 1 hit and then the armor is gone(armor of it btw is only activate once the MB kicks in). This game has many flaws that a lot of players seem to be ignoring because it will conflict with their mains, but thats just childish and selfish and those people don't deserve any say then if it's going to be just a biased argument and they have their pals backing them up for the same reasons.

-The zoning has too much priority due to mainly pushblock, but then you can't really get rid of that due to block infinites in this game(good job NRS), on top of no dash blocking.

-Supers DO take way too fucking long to come out to even be relied on, and the scaling for many is just horrendous within combos

-Interactables are beyond free af, and should flat out be removed. It's not "original", it's only a different take on SSB items except you can't block it and it does way too much damage on top of it tracking you, AND you can even MB it so you are safe to do all this free shit? And so many respawn....You can argue all you want and say "level up", but I highly doubt you would be saying that if you weren't using a power character as your excuse. Clearly from my profile image, I main WW, but I in no way agree to these interactables, nor do I pick stages for the sole purpose to chuck shit at my opponent like so many players do. Relying on a crutch much? What ever happened to actually fighting??

-And given the three above, this is what makes for the no round system to be even more unnecessary. If there were rounds, it should work like MK9. Everything stays the same, life bars just get reset. This would be the only way I see interactables not being so braindead, once you use it and it gets destroyed, it's gone for good, no respawning interactables(and the damage should be significantly less); it would just be better though if they were gone for good.

 

[Rampage254]

I still think they need to buff the walk speeds. It's hard as hell catching someone like Superman or Sinestro. Especially with how some if their projectiles pushback a lot.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Ok, let me put it this way:

Right now people are discussing left and right how to really balance this game the right way. Like Pig said: nerfing top characters until everyone sucks isn't a good solution. And like 16-Bit said: making all characters have the Killer Frost/Batgirl vortex or making all characters be as dumb and safe as Superman/Black Adam isn't a good solution either.

Would giving all characters a powerful vortex and 50% combos balance the game? Yes, probably. But would it make the game better and more fun to play/hype to watch? Not really. It would just make every matchup annoying to play and all characters stupid. That's not what we should aim for either.

As m2dave and others have already pointed out before: In this game, you either need 50% combos, a standing vortex, superior footsies/mobility, a great trait and/or a great Super to be top tier/viable. Being only good at zoning or footsies or rushdown doesn't cut it.

But what I'm saying is that the reason WHY characters need 50% combos or a vortex to be top in this game is mainly because of the no round system and lack of comeback mechanics. That, to me, is the underlying problem.

Top characters imo:

-Superman (mobility, best footsies, great zoning, great damage, good mixups, OTGs, great trait, great Super)
-Black Adam (mobility, footsies, good zoning, great damage, great trait)
-Aquaman (footsies, zoning, best trait)
-Wonder Woman (footsies, damage, corner OTG/vortex, good trait)
-The Flash (mobility, damage, vortex, good trait)

-Batman (great zoning, great trait)
-Batgirl (damage, standing vortex)
-Killer Frost (safe slide, standing vortex, good trait)
-Doomsday (mobility, relentless pressure, great trait)
-Green Lantern (footsies, good zoning, good trait)

-Green Arrow (mobility, great trait, great Super)
-Sinestro (footsies, zoning, great trait)

Then you have characters who are really good at zoning but don't have a good trait or a good Super (Cyborg/Deathstroke/Harley). Characters that have a good trait but don't have good damage or good mixups (Raven/Hawkgirl). Characters that have good mixups but not really good traits, damage or good zoning (Joker/Shazam). And characters that lack the mobility or footsies to compete with the likes of Superman and Black Adam (Bane/Lex).

I don't want all characters to have vortexes and 50-60% combos. But I do want all characters to at least have: Good traits, good mobility, good footsies and good Supers. And if a character has 50% combos or a vortex, then he should suffer somewhere else.

Killer Frost to me is balanced, because even though she has a powerful vortex, at least she is lacking in mobility and damage. But characters like Superman are just amazing at everything and have no drawbacks. Of course: he's superman! He should be perfect and far above everyone else! I'm sorry but that's not how fighting games should be balanced.

Balance character (Ryu) = jack of all trades, master of none
Specialist character (Makoto/Ibuki/Dhalsim) = master at 1 or 2 things, bad at most other things
Master character (Akuma/Seth) = master of all things but very low stamina/health

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I never said it can't happen. But I like that you are using Chris G as an example, who's using Green Arrow, one of the only characters in the game with an actual useful Super. And Black Adam, with 55% 1 bar combos. Obviously when you hit that hard any touch is a potential comeback.

tbh the only reason I see "close games" and people comeback "so often" is because players are still dropping baby combos they shouldn't be dropping in the first place. And because they just start making silly decisions with the life lead. But if everyone played as smart as KDZ and as patient as DJT you would see almost no comebacks.

That's not really true; you make comebacks when you stop making whatever mistakes got you in the hole and play smarter. You don't need dropped combos -- landing 1 reset after a combo can net you a total of 60% damage with any character that has average damage, or more with some other chars.

Lots of things can lead to comebacks, including cornering your opponent, resets, changing tactics, useage of trait, or even dumb luck.

 

[Jayroc]

Only thing I would change for the next NRS game is make supers more damaging but harder too land. A 2 button blow up move would not be good. I love the interactables but the ones that recharge or get to be reused is super lame and destroys the pace of the game. Interactables should be a small bonus to someone performing well or, get a player out of one and only one bad situation. An interactable shouldn't be consider in a winning strategy like the Metropolis rooftop or Aris Airport or whatever. Note - Love Aris's DS but not on that level . GA is not a zoner, if he was people would only use fire arrows.

 

[testyourpatience]

this thread is an excellent example of how you guys are incompetent about anything that isn't mk or exactly the same as mk9. there's no block button, there's no rounds where characters' health randomly regenerates, and there's only 1 breaker that you have to use wisely. if you're worried about comebacks, go play marvel so you an bitch about how easy comebacks are. it's not injustice, it's you. you guys complained about how bad mk was for 2 years and now that you have a better game you're not even trying because you're too used to mk.

 

[GGA Max]

In your scenario, losing the first round w/ opponent having 50% of first life bar...

1) If you lose the first round by 50% that is your own fault.

2) Your opponent just did 100% when you did 50%; you are not incapable of doing the reverse and evening things up.

 

[Chill1208]

I enjoy the no round system, I feel it gives you more time to read your opponent mount a defense and come back, a lot of times in MK as soon as I get a good read on my opponent and start getting him back and put him in a bad situation, I'm already too far down and he gets a wake up in and game over, then the next round starts and I'm right back to the zoning dance, especially since in injustice taking damage equals a lot of meter, if you don't waste it on health, a single bar of meter easily equates to a 40% combo for any character, which I do see as plenty of comeback potential, I do however agree that the game is too fast, and I think that it should be 3/5 in all tournaments, to give people more of an opportunity to read their opponent and make a comeback overall. I think MK10's health and round system should be as MK always has been, there are more than enough reasons why I like that system too, but injustices health system is very unique and I think that overtime with more updates, character balancing, and general damage scaling, as well as the fighting community adjusting to this new system, I think we will learn to play this system better and as we all learn, and the pros get better, the game will become more exciting, we just saw it's first Evo, and we learned a lot from it as did NRS, things can only get better from here but I don't think a complete overhaul on the health and round system is in order, but NRS if you read this please keep injustice in injustice and MK in MK

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

It's too late to change the game inside the game now.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

^ That's the first thing I said.

this thread is an excellent example of how you guys are incompetent about anything that isn't mk or exactly the same as mk9. there's no block button, there's no rounds where characters' health randomly regenerates, and there's only 1 breaker that you have to use wisely. if you're worried about comebacks, go play marvel so you an bitch about how easy comebacks are. it's not injustice, it's you. you guys complained about how bad mk was for 2 years and now that you have a better game you're not even trying because you're too used to mk.

lol, I'm not complaining about it. For fucks sake I play Black Adam, I always have some green left. Round 3 I can just hit you with 55% for 1 bar then run away with backdash + Orbs and you'll never get a chance to comeback unless I drop a link or choke.

This thread isn't about me having trouble coming back from a deficit. It's about how I feel about this round system and why I think so many people don't like playing or watching Injustice. And since it's too late to change the system I'm thinking about what could make it more enjoyable, balanced and hype for everyone.

-Increasing walkspeed and general mobility for everyone
-Making all traits good and useful
-Making all supers faster, have more range and be a lot more damaging (a threat people have to respect) *except the already good ones like Supes/GA
-Having drawbacks if you have very high damaging combos or a vortex (like KF having low damage and bad mobility)
-Possibly better reward for wagering more meter than your opponent (not sure though)
-Maybe better advantage on pushblock (like +8 instead of +0)

These are the main things I suggest aside from the general frame data and hitbox tweaks that are needed.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

In your scenario, losing the first round w/ opponent having 50% of first life bar...

1) If you lose the first round by 50% that is your own fault.

Ok but can you imagine losing 1st round to Kabal then round 2 Kabal has 150% health so he can just spend that round zoning and using EX moves, then trade that 50% green health for 3 bars of meter. Then round 3 Kabal has 100% health + full bar + wager vs your remaining 40%, 1 bar and no wager.

I just don't understand how anyone can like that or think it's good.

I almost hope MK10 has no rounds now just to see you guys complaining and crying about it lol.

 

[GGA Max]

Ok but can you imagine losing 1st round to Kabal then round 2 Kabal has 150% health so he can just spend that round zoning and using EX meter. Then trade that 50% green health for 3 bars of meter. Then round 3 Kabal has 100% health + full bar + wager vs your remaining 40%, 1 bar and no wager.

I just don't understand how anyone can like that or think it's good.

I almost hope MK10 has no rounds now just to see you guys complaining and crying about it lol.

I am assuming that one character is not as OP as Kabal, and i:gau does have SOME balance thus far. You DO have the option to counter pick, you don't have to always take a Kabal v Kano type MU.

That's why I said, you are completely capable of doing 100% and taking 50% after you've lost your first life bar.

 

[testyourpatience]

I still think they need to buff the walk speeds. It's hard as hell catching someone like Superman or Sinestro. Especially with how some if their projectiles pushback a lot.

superman's getting a zoning nerf and sinestro's zoning is hella un safe on block. besides, don't you use deathstroke...?
it would be annoying as hell if everyone had lobo's dash and he could just get in on you from full screen in 1 second.

 

[Crimson Panther]

Really good points. I personally like the no round system, but I do strongly agree with the come back factors should be better. You can only break a combo once so I think you should get more health if the defending player wins the wager. For instance like Bildslash said 4 bars gets you 50% health if all four win.

This of course would lead to higher damages received if the defender loses the wager which could lead to something like 80% combo or something.

I'm not entirely sure. KI is the only no round FG I can think of at the moment but it had the combo breaker which could be done any number of times in a match.

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Crimson Panther]

Oh yes I wish Supers did more damage all around. That's one of the best and hypest things about AE. Except in AE you have an entirely second Ultra meter which makes doing them viable.

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Rathalos]

Really good points. I personally like the no round system, but I do strongly agree with the come back factors should be better. You can only break a combo once so I think you should get more health if the defending player wins the wager. For instance like Bildslash said 4 bars gets you 50% health if all four win.

This of course would lead to higher damages received if the defender loses the wager which could lead to something like 80% combo or something.

I'm not entirely sure. KI is the only no round FG I can think of at the moment but it had the combo breaker which could be done any number of times in a match.

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Tapatalk 2

Darkstalkers 3/Vampire Savior also uses it, and it doesn't have combo breakers.

 

[xenogorgeous]

maybe if could be possible to use clash one time too, when you have silver bar , instead of using once when you are red ..... I mean, 2 clashes, 1 per each life bar.

 

[Minh Giang]

mk10 shouldn't have this shit. or atleast let the MK announcer say "round 1/2/3, fight" with his badass voice when the match start and the characters lose their first health bar, can't imagine MK without it lol.

 

[trufenix]

This isn't a rant thread. I'm simply saying I'm not a fan of the current system and I want to know how people feel about it.

Define "rant thread".

 

[1man3letters]

i like the "no round" system in this game.
not sure how id feel about in if it was ever put in MK put i like it in this.