General/Other - Mileena The Mileena General Discussion Thread (All Variations)

[Sultani]

f3 should be blocked on reaction by any half decent player

No it shouldn't. It should be hit out of the animation by pressing any button at all.

 

[Sultani]

The problem with low sai is that at -8, you're guaranteeing that they are going to get closer to you. It is effectively a cap on our zoning. You may get a few % damage done, but they are coming.

Telekick works fairly well as an anti-air (except when it doesn't). I'd say I like it more than air sai which has enough recovery that people can run up and put pressure on from huge distances.

I just don't think she's 'solid' anymore than all of the characters are solid with enough time put into them. She seems low tier for sure. To make anything meaningful happen, she's got to take -30 risks and so her version of a 50/50 is less "guess right or get hit" and more "guess right, I take damage; guess wrong, you take damage".

Okay fair enough... so how about playing a strong neutral game. She's now Erron Black after all. Her range... her range! She doesn't have any. Even the abominable f3 has less range than it initially looks like. She's certainly not out competing the neutral monsters like D'vorah. She's scrapping the bottom of the barrel here. Maybe this would be overcome-able were her moves fast... but they aren't. Out of all of the characters I've tried, her frame data is some of the worst I've seen. She has no reliable pokes. They are either slow or minus on block. Like I said before, I'm actually horrified to touch a button when I do something that is +0.

Once people reliably start blocking ex-roll... we're going to start getting reliably blown up.

^^. he knows.

B12 and F23 have decent range, but there are characters with far superior neutral game than both of those.

 

[JDE]

Lol. smh

 

[MsMiharo]

Ok I stand corrected, the b12 1+3 without the extension is not a HKD. HOWEVER you can either do it anyways because the tech roll doesn't really help them out (they still get hit) OR do the extension, do a VERY short run and f4 or EX roll from starting position. Will make a new video on it ASAP (tonight or tomorrow)

 

[MsMiharo]

Making EX regular sai a mid and plus on block would give her a good tool up close.

EDIT: OR they could seriously buff her damage making her a very high risk/very high reward character. Atm she isn't worth it considering the risk/reward.

 

[ZeroEffect]

f3 should be blocked on reaction by any half decent player

Yes. exactly. At least it's 0 on block. Imagine though, if it were advantage.

Anyway, safe specials, (and especially + on block specials), definitely go a long way in determining the good characters from the bad. It's basic principle. Getting rewarded for minimal risk. Now, I do enjoy a complex "risky" character, so long as their basic pokes and normals are enough to compensate for the lack of damage otherwise.

- Her damage is fine, IMO... and Overhead/Low 50/50s for Mileena's kind of playstyle are not all that important, IMO. The issue is just allowing her the frames, either on block or hit, to give her real pressure when she needs it. (Yes I'm looking at Telekick and Low sai again, lol)

Ethereal feels incomplete to me. I can't describe it fully, but the design seems broken. Broken in the sense that you can't buff her fades much without it becoming OP. And leaving it as is, makes it the opposite.

I'd also put in a word for her backdash. As a bait and punish character, her backdash just... doesn't work well enough. In a lot of cases, her backdash recovers just in time to be forced to block another string. Maybe extend the distance a bit? I dunno. Throwing ideas out here.

 

[ZeroEffect]

The problem with low sai is that at -8, you're guaranteeing that they are going to get closer to you. It is effectively a cap on our zoning. You may get a few % damage done, but they are coming.

Telekick works fairly well as an anti-air (except when it doesn't). I'd say I like it more than air sai which has enough recovery that people can run up and put pressure on from huge distances.

Telekick is also good when you're
A.) outside Roll's range... or
B.) Facing a low/mid projectile you can't get underneath.

And I agree with your point on low sai. I think NRS wanted to get as far away from the zoning wars in Injustice as they could. So they allowed easier ways to get in. I don't have a problem with the principle, but for low sai, it is easier to reaction jump than standing sai.
Also, there's the Run mechanic. So, the hit advantage in this case shouldn't be that big an issue should it?

 

[TheGabStandard]

Making EX regular sai a mid and plus on block would give her a good tool up close.

EDIT: OR they could seriously buff her damage making her a very high risk/very high reward character. Atm she isn't worth it considering the risk/reward.

The sai thing I agree with. As for damage she can get 30%+ meterless from almost every starter so personally I don't think she needs a damage boost,

 

[qspec]

Telekick is also good when you're
A.) outside Roll's range... or
B.) Facing a low/mid projectile you can't get underneath.

And I agree with your point on low sai. I think NRS wanted to get as far away from the zoning wars in Injustice as they could. So they allowed easier ways to get in. I don't have a problem with the principle, but for low sai, it is easier to reaction jump than standing sai.
Also, there's the Run mechanic. So, the hit advantage in this case shouldn't be that big an issue should it?

If they don't want her to be a zoner, that's fine... but dear god, give her something up close then.

The reason I don't even like telekick in those situations is because it is minus on hit... on fucking hit... so you effectively put yourself in a block string for a ~10% punish. Not everyone knows this information yet, so I get more mileage out of it than I should... but it is definitely a problem.

 

[EndofGameBoss]

What is her option select and how do you perform it? @Mr. Mileena @Johnny San @1man3letters

 

[MsMiharo]

I finally figured out what bothers me in her design. She has all these great tools but there is some vital flaw with all of them.

She could play rushdown (that's what I feel she should play) but her lack of safety and 50/50's makes it hard also telekick is a bad tool for getting in.

She could play keep away in piercing or ethereal but sai's are too fucking bad, telekick is bad. Teleport is not good enough and hitting with low sai doesn't keep them out.

She could play a mean oki/vortex game. She has several enders that leave the opponent standing or in a hard knockdown state. But they leave you too far away and/or don't give you enough advantage. Furthermore the lack of a real overhead means you'll burn through meter fast but that's a minor issue really.

She could be a great anti-zoner but again her teleport is awful and sai's are weak. Roll under projectiles is badass though.

She could be a grappler or sorts, mixing in grabs in her strings but only the low grab is actually a grab and it works so-so in strings.

 

[TakeAChance]

21U4~ball option select is really strong.

2 1(low) input BD4 then immediately input U4.

Leaves her -5, (safe) hit confirms into the roll on hit, and into the u4 on block.

Also opens up the 2~ex ball shenanigans.

Don't know how long these will be around tho.

 

[TheGabStandard]

I finally figured out what bothers me in her design. She has all these great tools but there is some vital flaw with all of them.

She could play rushdown (that's what I feel she should play) but her lack of safety and 50/50's makes it hard also telekick is a bad tool for getting in.

She could play keep away in piercing or ethereal but sai's are too fucking bad, telekick is bad. Teleport is not good enough and hitting with low sai doesn't keep them out.

She could play a mean oki/vortex game. She has several enders that leave the opponent standing or in a hard knockdown state. But they leave you too far away and/or don't give you enough advantage. Furthermore the lack of a real overhead means you'll burn through meter fast but that's a minor issue really.

She could be a great anti-zoner but again her teleport is awful and sai's are weak. Roll under projectiles is badass though.

She could be a grappler or sorts, mixing in grabs in her strings but only the low grab is actually a grab and it works so-so in strings.

So what you are trying to say in your eyes she's a lack of all trades but master of none?

 

[Baconlord]

After she lands the 21u4 string you can dash up and do a njk on there were wakeup. If it hits you get a hard knockdown and if its blocked you get + frames. After it’s blocked I either check them with a d3 or walk up and throw. Her njp alters her hit box allowing you to beat wakeups like sub's ex db1. I'm not sure if this is known but I was hoping any tech monsters could look into this setup or help find good options after a njk.

 

[MsMiharo]

So what you are trying to say in your eyes she's a lack of all trades but master of none?

that's the tl;dr lol

 

[Johnny San]

What is her option select and how do you perform it? @Mr. Mileena @Johnny San @1man3letters

Tags don't seem to be working. Just as an example, input B12~Ball Roll and press down block around the time the roll would come out. Roll will only come out if you hit confirm B1.

 

[qspec]

I finally figured out what bothers me in her design. She has all these great tools but there is some vital flaw with all of them.

She could play rushdown (that's what I feel she should play) but her lack of safety and 50/50's makes it hard also telekick is a bad tool for getting in.

She could play keep away in piercing or ethereal but sai's are too fucking bad, telekick is bad. Teleport is not good enough and hitting with low sai doesn't keep them out.

She could play a mean oki/vortex game. She has several enders that leave the opponent standing or in a hard knockdown state. But they leave you too far away and/or don't give you enough advantage. Furthermore the lack of a real overhead means you'll burn through meter fast but that's a minor issue really.

She could be a great anti-zoner but again her teleport is awful and sai's are weak. Roll under projectiles is badass though.

She could be a grappler or sorts, mixing in grabs in her strings but only the low grab is actually a grab and it works so-so in strings.

Well this is exactly the thing. It seems as if they took each of her tool, made it awesome and then added a huge negative to 'balance' it out. That in itself wouldn't be a problem, but it isn't consistent across the board with many of the solid tier characters having a little bit of everything that's also safe.

F3 is overhead and moves her forward... better make it 30+ frames on start-up.

Dive kick is super useful... better make it punishable on hit.

Air sai is a phenomenal zoning tool... better add recovery so it can be punished.

Did you know 123 can be confirmed into roll? Better give it the reach of a T-Rex.

I feel like I can play this game with literally all of her moves, kombos, and specials with the possible exception being normal sai which is pretty fucking good and fair as is.

 

[MsMiharo]

Well this is exactly the thing. It seems as if they took each of her tool, made it awesome and then added a huge negative to 'balance' it out. That in itself wouldn't be a problem, but it isn't consistent across the board with many of the solid tier characters having a little bit of everything that's also safe.

F3 is overhead and moves her forward... better make it 30+ frames on start-up.

Dive kick is super useful... better make it punishable on hit.

Air sai is a phenomenal zoning tool... better add recovery so it can be punished.

Did you know 123 can be confirmed into roll? Better give it the reach of a T-Rex.

I feel like I can play this game with literally all of her moves, kombos, and specials with the possible exception being normal sai which is pretty fucking good and fair as is.

yeah air sai is terrible compared to other air projectiles. Also what frustrates me is SHE HAS THE TOOLS they're just so much worse than others in the cast. Cassie and Cage has standing resets that leave them in range, EB and others HKD that are in range. Mileena can blow up wake-ups with f1 and S3 but they just aren't worth it considering you don't have any good setups for it and s3 is really negative unlike fucking Kung Jin. Other tele's are unsafe but not punishable. All she has is her roll and a dream tbh

 

[JDE]

I'm going to explore more of the Option Select tech that was revealed today. Hopefully, that will add more to her game.

 

[qspec]

I'm going to explore more of the Option Select tech that was revealed today. Hopefully, that will add more to her game.

There's some talk, though I've yet to see anything official, that the OSs are going (and good fucking riddance).

Definitely explore them if you want, but I wouldn't get too attached to them just in case. The bizarre way they work (on-block window vs on-hit window) seems to clearly either be by design (unlikely) or by accident.

@MsMiharo

Yeah, I was testing today to see at what range I could punish air sai on reaction. Generally it isn't quiiiiite full screen, but damn near if Mileena is up against someone with a solid projectile, fast run speed, or huge normals... which is most of the cast.

If you are doing it as low to the ground as possible when your opponent is pretty damn far away, you should be safe... but as an air-to-air... holy balls does suck.

 

[JDE]

Skip to like 20:00 & then he starts talking of them around that mark.

 

[MsMiharo]

There's some talk, though I've yet to see anything official, that the OSs are going (and good fucking riddance).

Definitely explore them if you want, but I wouldn't get too attached to them just in case. The bizarre way they work (on-block window vs on-hit window) seems to clearly either be by design (unlikely) or by accident.

@MsMiharo

Yeah, I was testing today to see at what range I could punish air sai on reaction. Generally it isn't quiiiiite full screen, but damn near if Mileena is up against someone with a solid projectile, fast run speed, or huge normals... which is most of the cast.

If you are doing it as low to the ground as possible when your opponent is pretty damn far away, you should be safe... but as an air-to-air... holy balls does suck.

Yeah I'm not crying for huge buffs but EVERYTHING has great potential but is just bad. Like maybe you could make telekick safe if you do the air sai really low to the ground you might be saf- NOPE.

 

[qspec]

@JDE

Yeah man, I know how they work. They are unbelievably powerful (for some characters). I was fucking around with them on D'vorah. It was letting me use her Ovi super (for venom damage) on hit and make it safe on block.

I was saying that a few things I've seen say that they've been acknowledged as a bug and will be patched out. Though I've not seen that from an official source. Is Pig official?

I won't go too in-depth here as I've kicked this horse dead a few time in the thread in which UltraDavid showed this. I'm really rooting for their removal for a number of reasons. No me gusta.

 

[Johnny San]

I just found out that F1 is faster outside of Piercing. Less active frames (1 I think) but its neutral on block instead of being negative.

The more you know.

 

[TheGabStandard]

I just found out that F1 is faster outside of Piercing. Less active frames (1 I think) but its neutral on block instead of being negative.

The more you know.

Huh how about that, do you know how much faster?