The main reason the 3D's suck?

[PauLWaFFleZ]

If Ed Boon just made UMK3 in 3D I would be happy. The closest to that is MK4 but it's still a way off.

And made the stuff look good in 3d (unlike MK4 which is ugly to look at sometimes) It would be bad ass if MK8 had the UMK3 engine.. but then again, it would not score very high on rating or would be possible to even look decent...(MK4)

Uh, Hello? Didnt I just make the case that MK on PS2 and XBox were basicly UMK3 in 3D? They hardly changed anything. Instead of taking advantage of the new technology all they did was make the same game in 3D. Sure, it was cool for awhile, but we all see how now we hate the game. In MK8, they need to make a REAL fighting system and get away from the "easy to pick up and play" trash. Thats whats made 3D MK so boring. Id like to see a circular motion put in like Street Fighter and Killer Instinct have. And it would be nice if they could have sort of a special bar meter so that people couldnt abuse strong special moves all the time (Dairou).

 

[TheRagingStorm]

I liked Shaolin Monks the best out of all the 3D's... Deception in a close second.

Shaolin Monks wasn't a real MK game...

But Don't You wish it was....?

 

[TheRagingStorm]

I agree with both of you, it was a better fighting game than the others and it wasn't even a real fighting game.

I would love to play Shaolin Monks with ppl on here. Teams against other scrub teams online, that would be fuckin great.

word. if it only had an online feature, think of how much better the game could have been.

 

[ButtManV3]

Yea Shaolin Monks was a dam good game

 

[dreemernj]

If Ed Boon just made UMK3 in 3D I would be happy. The closest to that is MK4 but it's still a way off.

And made the stuff look good in 3d (unlike MK4 which is ugly to look at sometimes) It would be bad ass if MK8 had the UMK3 engine.. but then again, it would not score very high on rating or would be possible to even look decent...(MK4)

Uh, Hello? Didnt I just make the case that MK on PS2 and XBox were basicly UMK3 in 3D? They hardly changed anything. Instead of taking advantage of the new technology all they did was make the same game in 3D. Sure, it was cool for awhile, but we all see how now we hate the game. In MK8, they need to make a REAL fighting system and get away from the "easy to pick up and play" trash. Thats whats made 3D MK so boring. Id like to see a circular motion put in like Street Fighter and Killer Instinct have. And it would be nice if they could have sort of a special bar meter so that people couldnt abuse strong special moves all the time (Dairou).

The point I was making was if they did make UMK3 in 3D, it'd probably be good. MKDA-MKA are not particularly similar to UMK3. You said it but you didn't make a case because you didn't say why.

Most of the problems the 3D games had would be fixed if they decided to model it more after UMK3. But instead they use the new engine they came up with which is quite different and not as good.

 

[PauLWaFFleZ]

If Ed Boon just made UMK3 in 3D I would be happy. The closest to that is MK4 but it's still a way off.

And made the stuff look good in 3d (unlike MK4 which is ugly to look at sometimes) It would be bad ass if MK8 had the UMK3 engine.. but then again, it would not score very high on rating or would be possible to even look decent...(MK4)

Uh, Hello? Didnt I just make the case that MK on PS2 and XBox were basicly UMK3 in 3D? They hardly changed anything. Instead of taking advantage of the new technology all they did was make the same game in 3D. Sure, it was cool for awhile, but we all see how now we hate the game. In MK8, they need to make a REAL fighting system and get away from the "easy to pick up and play" trash. Thats whats made 3D MK so boring. Id like to see a circular motion put in like Street Fighter and Killer Instinct have. And it would be nice if they could have sort of a special bar meter so that people couldnt abuse strong special moves all the time (Dairou).

The point I was making was if they did make UMK3 in 3D, it'd probably be good. MKDA-MKA are not particularly similar to UMK3. You said it but you didn't make a case because you didn't say why.

Most of the problems the 3D games had would be fixed if they decided to model it more after UMK3. But instead they use the new engine they came up with which is quite different and not as good.

Ok, heres my arguement. THe 3D's kept the auto combo system, something they've been doing since UMK3. They had a good juggling system in DA but in D, it basicly became more unbalanced. Just like when MK2 went to MK3, you could juggle much more. The fighting engine was only different in a sense that now, each characters kicks and punches look different because of the martial arts. Then they just added a weapon in. Attack 1, Attack 2... Its basicly just like HP, HK. Its still 4 attack buttons, just like in UMK3. And when it came down to it, just like in UMK3, the special moves defined the characters power for the most part. The only thing that really was too different was the Special feature that they had in DA, that led to more strategies and lower Tier characters could actually win games because of that. By taking that out in D, it made it more of a UMK3 game... And since its been over 10 years, the system has gotten old and so boring now. Its only fun if you play the actual UMK3. ITs just like Mario. It was fun on SNES and stuff when it was 2D, but when it came time to make it for N64, they actually took advantage of the new technology and didnt just "make it 3D". Its way easier if you look at it like that.

 

[dreemernj]

Low tier characters have a better chance of competing in UMK3 than in MKDA-MKA. More than just specials defines the characters. Specials, quality of regulars, hitboxes, it all adds up.

The gameplay is fundamentally different. They both have combos, MK characters, and they both have 4 attack buttons. That's the real similarity.

If the 3D games had the same system for how combos grab you, for blocking, for throwing and throwing avoidance, and for juggling, most of the problems of the 3D games would disappear.

 

[PauLWaFFleZ]

Low tier characters have a better chance of competing in UMK3 than in MKDA-MKA. More than just specials defines the characters. Specials, quality of regulars, hitboxes, it all adds up.

The gameplay is fundamentally different. They both have combos, MK characters, and they both have 4 attack buttons. That's the real similarity.

If the 3D games had the same system for how combos grab you, for blocking, for throwing and throwing avoidance, and for juggling, most of the problems of the 3D games would disappear.

Ill agree with you on most of that, but still, I dont want to see something that came out in 95 be the model for a 3D game. I mean, just because it were in 3D, doesnt mean that it would be a good game even if it were modeled after UMK3. They should make a Tekken-Soul Calibur-Virtua Fighter type game for 8. I really hope that when Boon said that they're gonna end alot of things that he meant they are gonna make a much deeper and in depth fighting system, not this trash we've become to loath.

 

[dreemernj]

I would enjoy whatever they do with the fighting engine as long as it's good. If they made UMK3 in 3D I would be happy because I still love that fighting engine. But if they made something 100% new and different and it was deep and balanced I'd love that too.

I think part of the problem is there is a different concept of what a finished product is between MK and games like SC, TK, VF, or even other 2D fighters like most of the capcom games.

MK games are released at a level of finish that would probably be considered early testing for other fighting game series. And, despite that, they sell a lot of copies of the MK games. So I don't see a huge change coming in the future. I think we'll still see unfinished gameplay engines released. But that's just my cynical point of view because I've been let down by MK for a long time now, lol.

My hopes for MK8 are building somewhat though. At some point in conversation with someone (probably Shock) I mentioned a long time ago that I hoped they would just use an existing engine for the graphics so that they could focus completely on the gameplay instead of spending time making the graphics engine too and that's what they are doing with MK8. Hopefully that means they actually do spend more time working on the gameplay.

And even if MK8 isn't as finished as I would like, I hope MK9 is an improvement.

MKDA through MKA they didn't focus on fixing problems. They just kept adding more broken crap for the most part.

MK1 through UMK3 OTOH, each increment fixed elements of the gameplay, which is why UMK3 turned out good. It was a steady progression in quality through the games. Plus, because they were arcade games, each game got revisions as well.

So for the 3D games to be successful I think they'd need to either spend A LOT more time testing and polishing the gameplay, or they'd need to re-adopt releasing revisions and incrementing the same engine across multiple games.

 

[PauLWaFFleZ]

I would enjoy whatever they do with the fighting engine as long as it's good. If they made UMK3 in 3D I would be happy because I still love that fighting engine. But if they made something 100% new and different and it was deep and balanced I'd love that too.

I think part of the problem is there is a different concept of what a finished product is between MK and games like SC, TK, VF, or even other 2D fighters like most of the capcom games.

MK games are released at a level of finish that would probably be considered early testing for other fighting game series. And, despite that, they sell a lot of copies of the MK games. So I don't see a huge change coming in the future. I think we'll still see unfinished gameplay engines released. But that's just my cynical point of view because I've been let down by MK for a long time now, lol.

My hopes for MK8 are building somewhat though. At some point in conversation with someone (probably Shock) I mentioned a long time ago that I hoped they would just use an existing engine for the graphics so that they could focus completely on the gameplay instead of spending time making the graphics engine too and that's what they are doing with MK8. Hopefully that means they actually do spend more time working on the gameplay.

And even if MK8 isn't as finished as I would like, I hope MK9 is an improvement.

MKDA through MKA they didn't focus on fixing problems. They just kept adding more broken crap for the most part.

MK1 through UMK3 OTOH, each increment fixed elements of the gameplay, which is why UMK3 turned out good. It was a steady progression in quality through the games. Plus, because they were arcade games, each game got revisions as well.

So for the 3D games to be successful I think they'd need to either spend A LOT more time testing and polishing the gameplay, or they'd need to re-adopt releasing revisions and incrementing the same engine across multiple games.

Thats exactly my point. You know, I went to gamestop today to try and find Guilty Gear, and while I was there, I started playing VF5, just the demo. It had all the different fighting styles and stuff for each character, then it hit me. I think the reason MKDA - MKA sucked mainly is because of the link combo system. It just lead to most of the fighting styles in the game to be useless. When you would play with Raiden in MKDA, you knew Nan Chuan had a reversal and you could get a 10 hit 34% combo off of that. That left Jujutsu a worthless style, mainly only good for shoving. If they hadnt of had the link combo system, I think that ALONE would have made the game WAY more in depth. Just like in MKD, when you play with Jade, Ashrah, Shujinko or somebody else like those characters, you would ALWAYS stay in the figthing style you start the game with because those would lead to the bigger combos. But as your point about being unfinished games, I feel the exact same way. They took a step back in D because they took out all the special abilities like Shove, Power Up (sometimes culd be too powerful) , Taunt and the rest, so that made the game less in depth right there. In MKA, they added parries and a wake up game, but the game overall just turned out to be broken and shitty again, so it was meaningless. But I would like to just see a polished game like VF or SC. I mean, its so sad how Soul Calibur bullies MK. Liu Kang is supposed to be this bad ass character with nunchunks, but compared to Maxi and what he does in SC....There is no comparison.

 

[RoGE]

whats wrong with MKSMs fighting system exactly?

 

[PauLWaFFleZ]

whats wrong with MKSMs fighting system exactly?

Shaolin Monks isnt a real fighting game in the first place.

 

[TempesT]

It may not have been a "real" MK fighting game, but it was still the most fun 3D MK game that I've played.

 

[TheRagingStorm]

word.

 

[RoGE]

whats wrong with MKSMs fighting system exactly?

Shaolin Monks isnt a real fighting game in the first place.

then you might as well change the topic to "Why the 3d fighters suck"

 

[CrazyFox101]

I know you are probably going to gasp at this, but I don't have a problem with any of the 3D games. I think they are all fun to play and well made. I see what some of you guys are saying, though. You want something more competitive, and I understand that. I guess we'll just have to see what they dish out in MK8.

 

[SABER Linkdude]

I know you are probably going to gasp at this, but I don't have a problem with any of the 3D games. I think they are all fun to play and well made. I see what some of you guys are saying, though. You want something more competitive, and I understand that. I guess we'll just have to see what they dish out in MK8.

MK8 is supposed to take away the weapons and fighting styles. Ed Boon says it will be close to MK3 with the gameplay. That's all I know.

 

[PauLWaFFleZ]

I know you are probably going to gasp at this, but I don't have a problem with any of the 3D games. I think they are all fun to play and well made. I see what some of you guys are saying, though. You want something more competitive, and I understand that. I guess we'll just have to see what they dish out in MK8.

MK8 is supposed to take away the weapons and fighting styles. Ed Boon says it will be close to MK3 with the gameplay. That's all I know.

If its something thats just UMK3, I might not even buy it. Im fucking tired of the lame ass fighting system, they need to start brand new on nearly everything about MK. Storyline, Characters, Moves, Fighting System, everything. Boon didnt really say they're gonna take out all the fighting systems and weapons, just that itll be much more different. I think it would probaly be better if it were more of a weapon based system, but you could put you're sword away for hand-2-hand combat. I want a more in-depth system, I would also like to see the circular movement motions that Street Fighter and Killer Instinct has... MK's game style is just to damn stale.

 

[O Juggernaut 0]

Is MK8 gonna be available for the 360?

 

[DownShift]

Is MK8 gonna be available for the 360?

Sup 1up.com....

 

[SABER Linkdude]

Is MK8 gonna be available for the 360?

Yes both Xbox 360 and PS3. According to Boon, he says that he would love to take advantage of the PS3's motion capabilities with that version.

 

[dreemernj]

Is MK8 gonna be available for the 360?

Yes both Xbox 360 and PS3. According to Boon, he says that he would love to take advantage of the PS3's motion capabilities with that version.

Ed Boon is to Motion Sensitive Controllers as Kelly Bundy is to Shiny Shiny Nickels.

Sometimes when he talks about where MK is going it's pretty scary. The only thing looking up for me is the use of an existing engine for the graphics. I can't help but think really bad game breaks will be found HOURs after the next game comes out. Breaks that should have been caught and fixed Way before it got released.

That may not happen, I just wish the probability of it happening was low.

 

[SABER Linkdude]

All the funny stuff that MK fans thought was hilarious in the 3D games is being removed. The graphics are being done from scratch, and EVERYTHING else is being done from scratch.

 

[PauLWaFFleZ]

I know you are probably going to gasp at this, but I don't have a problem with any of the 3D games. I think they are all fun to play and well made. I see what some of you guys are saying, though. You want something more competitive, and I understand that. I guess we'll just have to see what they dish out in MK8.

If you think the 3D games are even acceptable by most standards, you must not of ever played Soul Calibur 3. You will be amazed at how much more you can do and how badly it kicks MK's ass all the way.

 

[PauLWaFFleZ]

Wow, the review that 1up.com gave Armageddon is so true. Talking about how all the other fighters moved on and how MK is still using the boring, unbalanced P+P+K+P combos compared to what Tekken and Soul Calibur are doing.... Using those same cartoon fantasy looking graphics... Talking about how its headed into the direction of the King Of Fighters... Yeah, its all true, how boring and stale MK is... just the same game from 1993 except different stances and such... how boring. Only spot where they messed up was giving it a 6.5, shoulda been like a 3