The "Let's Be Serious Here" Podcast with Perfect Legend, Tom Brady, and M2Dave

[RM Truth]

You can in marvel, which is marvel. Thirdstrike let's you combo universal overhead to super, but what other overheads lead to full combo in SF? Do you mean high attacks or jump ins?

Adon, Ibuki, Vega and Dudley can combo off of their command overheads in SF4. There might be others, but those are the ones that come to mind.

 

[gamemk]

...

 

[RM Truth]

Yeah, I think you're right, but every character can't do that, and none of those characters have projectiles. However, in NRS, the overhead stuff is universal to all characters, regardless of projectiles, and they're in combo strings that activate from anywhere. I was thinking about standard overhead attacks. The characters you listed probably have those moves because they don't have projectiles and need those moves once they get in on an opponent.

I know what you're saying, but tbh, the only overheads that really matter are the ones that start strings. Most of the time unless the string leads to a 50/50, the overhead isn't that scary unless its a really fast string.

 

[RM Truth]

Also Ibuki has a projectile invincible full screen special that leads to one of the dumbest vortexes in the game. I think that more than makes up for the lack of a good zoning tool.

 

[M2Dave]

The low gunshots thing is easy to figure out. Is it really fair to have a dude be able to shoot fast, low projectiles from far away that can never be traded with, and which cause knockdown? That's not fair, man. It's almost sadistic (the design, not you), and it reduces the option to defend to jumping(bad in 2d games), walking and getting knocked down, or crouch blocking and taking chip. There's no focus attack option. They had no choice.

First of all, low gunshots have never knocked down.

Second of all, fair is subjective. Is Martian Manhunter's overhead teleport fair? Killer Frost's slide? Aquaman's trident rush against those characters who cannot punish? Batman's, Sinestro's, and Zod's trait?

You always focus on how certain zoning is not fair but conveniently ignore anti-zoning special moves like Martian Manhunter's overhead teleport.

Old low gunshots were no more and no less fair in comparison to the other "top tier" moves.

 

[gamemk]

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[RM Truth]

Well, when she's full screen she can't do anything except slide, and the vortex thing. I used to get fucked up by that, but I realize that most of the time you block the oposite direction of the way your character's head is facing exactly when you hear her voice do the "hup" thing in the air. That's how I block the vortex, but once she's in it's still stupid, and getting to her is also a challenge. If she had a good projectile (She hais air kunai) she would be beyond stupid.

I'm not super familar with it, but I doubt its that simple. I'm sure she has a boatload more options she can do to guess right.

 

[gamemk]

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[Rickyraws]

Count me in. After all, I was elected the new zoning master by @General M2Dave Zoners get no respect .

Nor should they

 

[M2Dave]

Doesn't one of his cause knockdown?

Only MB machine gun does, which is only slightly better than Shazam's projectile. LOL.

 

[gamemk]

...

 

[M2Dave]

Can't have this(below vid), man. I wouldn't design a game that let someone do that, and I'm a regular avoiding the puddle listener, so I know Aris is a smart fg player. I don't know how they let this get through every stage of the game's development. That's 5 days after the release. He's just shooting. He controls the entire pace of the game. Where is the common sense defense against this without taking damage?

Is your point that online scrubs lost (and still lose) to Deathstroke's zoning?

If so, I agree, but I could not care what online scrubs think.

 

[gamemk]

...

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Nor should they

How do u put faces on animated gifs

 

[M2Dave]

Aris wasn't just beating scrubs at Wednesday night fights. He was beating competent players doing the same online stuff.

So did I at Console Combat using mid tier Kano...

Until people learned how to play Kabal, Kung Lao, Sonya, etc.

 

[Rickyraws]

How do u put faces on animated gifs

Photoshop, or gimp (the poverty version) mixed with a few popular gifs from gif sites. I'm no expert though...

 

[Indecisive]

I really want KDZ to voice his opinion on certain things. Its not even Biased. Its just most of the people on the list have already been on a podcast and voiced what they thought at one point or another. KDZ has yet to really do that i feel. So it would be nice to have him talk on a Podcast instead of someone who is on one almost all the time :/

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

LOL they ripped off the name game

@GGA 16 Bit LOL you flipped off Pig's daughter ? HOLY SHIT LOL

 

[haketh]

I still play DS, people saying DS mediocre footisies tools make up for his wack zoning now are on crack. If he at least kept the chip damage on all his guns and old TK Guns it would still work.

Also amazing how gay this thread got before I got here, lame I missed it >.>

 

[Vulcan Hades]

This is actually a pretty good listen. When you skip everything PL says..


Wait, what? There's audio problems? I didn't notice PL always sounds like that to me.

 

[THTB]

To comment on the DS stuff, I still don't see how the character is ruined by low gunshots being as stripped as they are, when he still has stuff like j3, a pretty solid wakeup defense game, and guns STILL are absurdly fast and beat out most other projectiles (and you still have to scout MB shots to advance without taking damage). Yeah, he's worse in the long run, but he still has a myriad of shit to go with anyway, so it's not like they completely took away everything he had.

There's more to him than the guns, and you really don't know exactly what the developers intended to have him do in the first place. Though, looking at how other characters are designed in their gameplay, they're insanely based around the portrayal. And as said, he's a mercenary that's not only good with guns, but good in close quarters too, which seems to be where they were going.

 

[RIF]

A lot of people believe that zoning "takes no skill" but 50/50 mix ups are perfectly fine.

Look no further than this thread.

Then there are characters with 50/50 mix-ups protected by armor. :/

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Then there are characters with 50/50 mix-ups protected by armor. :/

To add, SAFE 50/50s that LAUNCHES into combo. Sometimes into, yet again, SAFE 50/50 into full combo set-ups

 

[Flagg]

@General M2Dave, naturally it's upto you guys who you choose but these polls are usually sycophantic popularity contests.

I think you should have kdz on simply cause no one has heard much from him lately. Don't want to listen to 16 bit sound bites for 2 hours +.

 

[M2Dave]

To comment on the DS stuff, I still don't see how the character is ruined by low gunshots being as stripped as they are, when he still has stuff like j3, a pretty solid wakeup defense game, and guns STILL are absurdly fast and beat out most other projectiles (and you still have to scout MB shots to advance without taking damage). Yeah, he's worse in the long run, but he still has a myriad of shit to go with anyway, so it's not like they completely took away everything he had.

There's more to him than the guns, and you really don't know exactly what the developers intended to have him do in the first place. Though, looking at how other characters are designed in their gameplay, they're insanely based around the portrayal. And as said, he's a mercenary that's not only good with guns, but good in close quarters too, which seems to be where they were going.

Where would you rank Killer Frost if slide were -23 on block? She would still some solid tools (i.e., reset, safe 50/50 mix up, fast-recovering projectile, very good anti-zoning tool, etc.) but would definitely be no better than mid tier.

Some characters depend on one move more than others. Deathstroke depended on safe low gunshots a lot, not just for zoning but also for other gameplay aspects (i.e., footsies and even offense).

Deathstroke used to be top 5 but is currently mid tier. The nerf ruined the character. What more evidence do you need?