The Last Son of Krypton -- Superman General Discussion Thread

[xQUANTUMx]

Does anyone know how to deal with people's d1 or d3 after f23 breath? It always seems to hit me and when I try to punish it I end up up doing a whiff rising grab. >.<

Are you on mk inputs? If so then you are holding down and then input forward too fast. Alternate fixes that or you need to wait more.


Team NRF

 

[omegapr1me99]

Does anyone know how to deal with people's d1 or d3 after f23 breath? It always seems to hit me and when I try to punish it I end up up doing a whiff rising grab. >.<

Back dash then whiff punish with F23

 

[Tony at Home]

So I've been fooling around with Supes in practice mode and think I may have found something. I couldn't find this mentioned anywhere in the forums, so it's either not known about, or people do know about it and have simply found something better.

In the guide it lists combos you can get off 22-low scoop, but doesn't mention this one.

It does 36 % with one bar of meter:

22-low scoop, 11, trait, f2, MB frost breath, b3, j3 22 (can't figure out a good ender)

The guide says you can get 36 % of the same starter IF you have trait activated before hand, but this has the benefit of activating trait in the middle.

Can any Supe-mains comment on this?

 

[Tony at Home]

Here is an updated version of the previous combo. I did some more testing and it seems like this does the best damage.

I can't find anything else that does more damage for 1 bar, mid-screen, and that starts with a 22-low scoop. This does 41 % damage, and that's not even including a jump-in

41 %, mid-screen, 1 bar of meter, and trait is activated mid-combo:

22-low scoop, 11-trait, f2-frostbreath, b3, j3, 3, flying punch

Updated timing notes for easier execution:

After low scoop, you need to hit 11 at just tge right time. The best way to do this is think of the spinning enemy after low scoop as a clock. Hit 11 when the enemy's head is at 8:00.

To properly make sure you hit f2 after trait as soon as you are allowed to, use the rumble in your controller as guide. When Supes uses trait, the rumble the controller does indicates the point where it can then be cancelled.

Also, it is much easier to finish the combo with a j2, 3, flying punch instead of a j3, 3, flying punch. You do 39 percent instead of 41 percent, but much less chance to drop, and it is still the most damage you can get off a 22-low scoop

**** Second update ****

Credit to M-Aran-X

You can do 1-trait instead of 11-trait if you are more comfortable with the timing, and it will NOT lower the damage. You still get the full 41%. Doing 1-trait reduces the risk of whiffing the second 1, however since the second 1 lifts the enemy in the air a bit more, you may have to be sliiiightly faster on the f2 that comes after trait. Lastly, doing 1-trait instead of 11-trait also has puts slightly less gravity in the combo, making the j3, 3, flying punch at the end easier to connect.

 

[DarksydeDash]

An insane setup is if you are in the corner, end the combo with a low scoop, 3 canceled into trait then immediately go into a dive punch. It will cross them up but put you on the original side you were on. If your opponent tech roles or wakeups, the tech role is ignored and the wakeup is reversed so your opponent faces the other side. You can get 80%+ off this with 1 bar

 

[M-Aran-X]

An insane setup is if you are in the corner, end the combo with a low scoop, 3 canceled into trait then immediately go into a dive punch. It will cross them up but put you on the original side you were on. If your opponent tech roles or wakeups, the tech role is ignored and the wakeup is reversed so your opponent faces the other side. You can get 80%+ off this with 1 bar

Actually if you do it right, the wake up is ignored too.

 

[PaYizT]

An insane setup is if you are in the corner, end the combo with a low scoop, 3 canceled into trait then immediately go into a dive punch. It will cross them up but put you on the original side you were on. If your opponent tech roles or wakeups, the tech role is ignored and the wakeup is reversed so your opponent faces the other side. You can get 80%+ off this with 1 bar

you mean this http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/462038941 yo KDZ superman is just to much for anyone to handle lol fast foward to 8 minutes ,all that corner combo reset shenanigens needs to be put on the front page of the guide i been doing that online on people and i just feel amazing when i do it lol and its not hard at all , everysuperman player needs to add this to there game and i bet it would still be there after the patch superman is going to become like the new cyrax i believe after the damn patch if u get trap in the corner lol

 

[M-Aran-X]

you mean this http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/462038941 yo KDZ superman is just to much for anyone to handle lol fast foward to 8 minutes ,all that corner combo reset shenanigens needs to be put on the front page of the guide i been doing that online on people and i just feel amazing when i do it lol and its not hard at all , everysuperman player needs to add this to there game and i bet it would still be there after the patch superman is going to become like the new cyrax i believe after the damn patch if u get trap in the corner lol

oh boy... if you knew...
Anyway, There is some tech that nobody has discovered yet, but it's better not post it because everyone is criying for supes nerf so it's better to wait for the patch and then a little bit more in order to not have to handle the criying wave.

 

[Tony at Home]

oh boy... if you knew...
Anyway, There is some tech that nobody has discovered yet, but it's better not post it because everyone is criying for supes nerf so it's better to wait for the patch and then a little bit more in order to not have to handle the criying wave.

Something I've learned from the Lex forums:

If the tech isn't posted. You don't have it.
It isn't useful tech if it hasn't been peer-reviewed.

Besides, I have secret tech that no one knows about that actually counters anyone else's secret tech that no one knows about.

 

[M-Aran-X]

Something I've learned from the Lex forums:

If the tech isn't posted. You don't have it.
It isn't useful tech if it hasn't been peer-reviewed.

Besides, I have secret tech that no one knows about that actually counters anyone else's secret tech that no one knows about.

look, i'm not saying nobody in the world knows it, but the people that know about it don't post it for some reason. I'm gonna share it when the time is right but now it's not the time ok? specially with all the crap this character is reciving. For example: you posted a combo that you believe is the optimal combo for scoop meter trait, but I have a better optimal combo that nobody have posted yet just like the other one that I posted in the last post that completly destroys the stupid argument of lol supes can't do more than 33% without j, meter or trait. I can optimize your combo right now and I bet you won't be able to realize how and why, but it's better to wait before post it here because then it can be nerfed. Everyone should just wait after the final patch to post things, before that is stupid. Also, saying is not useful tech if it hasn't been peer-reviewed is stupid, KDZ had a lot of resets and nobody realize that until everyone sawy him using it, but he never explained how and why and still it was useful tech.

 

[M-Aran-X]

Something I've learned from the Lex forums:

If the tech isn't posted. You don't have it.
It isn't useful tech if it hasn't been peer-reviewed.

Besides, I have secret tech that no one knows about that actually counters anyone else's secret tech that no one knows about.

Gonna post a little of what I know without telling how and why in order to prove why is so important to not share it before the patch:
1. Standing reset that negates rolling and wake ups on midscreen and corner that allows a throw or a f3 bounce cancel(not the f3/b3 f3 one, that doesn't allow you a throw).
2. Corner reset that negates rolling and wake up without using meter or trait
3. Make a fucking combo after a front jd3 midscreen, something nobody, and I repeat nobody has done.

Now whats your secret tech? I posted some of what I can do and any dedicate superman player that doesn't depend purely on bnbs and f23 will discover how to do this. Also your scoop combo is not the optimal one, actually most of the combos posted on the guide aren't the optimal ones and nobody has bothered discovering them.

 

[Tony at Home]

The point that tech isn't useful if it hasn't been peer reviewed is someone might have a counter for it.

It might be tech that, once posted, someone will instantly be like "oh yeah, I've tried that out, but doing X or Y with character Z completely stuffs it"

My "Secret tech no one knows about that counters other secret tech that no one knows about" is of course a joke- it plays on the notion that people can just say they have something that is totally dirty, without having to prove it.

Now, I have absolutely ZERO problem with someone not posting every piece of tech they know. If they want to keep it a secret, fine.

The problem I have is if you have tech you don't want people to know about, don't post that you even have it in the first place. It's kinda like saying "hey! I have a super-secret but I'm not going to tell you!"

As for my Low Scoop combo, as of now, from what I can see, it is the most optimal one that has been posted and put up for peer review.

If you actually look at my original post when I first found it out, I state two very important things, that ALL posted BnB's should follow:

1) I have looked through the available guide and not found anything that made it obsolete.
2) (most important) I ask if any Superman mains can comment on its usefulness, and see if it can be improved, or if it isn't viable.

That's peer-review. If there is a better combo out there, it doesn't matter if it hasn't been posted and reviewed.

 

[Tony at Home]

Also, thanks for the previous optimization of 1-trait instead of 11-trait.

Hitting f2 afterwards feels a bit more tricky, but it appears it reduces the fall speed by putting less hits in the combo, therefore making the j3, 3, flying punch easier to connect.

I highly doubt though, we'll be able to get any more damage off this. But I think reaching 41% off a 22 low scoop is a huge step in giving Supes a viable mixup game, considering how risky low-scoop can be, it's really important Supes get's good damage whenever he connects it to make up for that risk.

 

[M-Aran-X]

Also, thanks for the previous optimization of 1-trait instead of 11-trait.

Hitting f2 afterwards feels a bit more tricky, but it appears it reduces the fall speed by putting less hits in the combo, therefore making the j3, 3, flying punch easier to connect.

I highly doubt though, we'll be able to get any more damage off this. But I think reaching 41% off a 22 low scoop is a huge step in giving Supes a viable mixup game, considering how risky low-scoop can be, it's really important Supes get's good damage whenever he connects it to make up for that risk.

you can get more damage, believe me. There is a better combo, I'm still making my supes guide and I have a better combo. Just like that last combo I posted. I'm gonna share my tech, don't worry but you have to understand that this patch can change all and I think it will be the last one so you have to be careful in sharing things before that. Look at what happened with other otgs like flash and wonder woman so be careful.

 

[Tony at Home]

you can get more damage, believe me. There is a better combo, I'm still making my supes guide and I have a better combo. Just like that last combo I posted. I'm gonna share my tech, don't worry but you have to understand that this patch can change all and I think it will be the last one so you have to be careful in sharing things before that. Look at what happened with other otgs like flash and wonder woman so be careful.

Once again, off a 22-low scoop, mid screen, only one bar of meter, and mid-combo trait activation,(optional jump in for extra damage) 22-low scoop, 1(1)-trait-f2 j3 3-flying punch for 41 percent is the best out there. And no, I'm not sure why I should assume a combo which has never been posted does more damage.

Saying you have a better combo that you aren't able to put up to review is no different than me saying "I have an even better combo that will do more damage than yours and cost zero meter"- I would literally have just as much evidence of it's existence.

 

[M-Aran-X]

Once again, off a 22-low scoop, mid screen, only one bar of meter, and mid-combo trait activation,(optional jump in for extra damage) 22-low scoop, 1(1)-trait-f2 j3 3-flying punch for 41 percent is the best out there. And no, I'm not sure why I should assume a combo which has never been posted does more damage.

Saying you have a better combo that you aren't able to put up to review is no different than me saying "I have an even better combo that will do more damage than yours and cost zero meter"- I would literally have just as much evidence of it's existence.

do you really want me to do your homework just like I did the others guy homework in allstar superman guide? Pls go and watch that treath to get the idea that if I talk about a superior combo it is true, always true. Also, you shoudn't consider 22 low scoop as a combo because one, scoop can be done from 111, 11, 1, 22, 2, d1, b1 and so on, and two 223 is not a mixup, every player can block low and react to that slow ass over head, and the ones that can't deserve to be punished. Also only way i'm seeing you entering with 22 is with a jump attack because seriously who will fall for a 10 frames short string like that?

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Top 5 beginning of game, drop to probably around 11 at 6 months in, then back up to around 8 for the final Tier List. My guess (not based on anything at all lol)
Even though Supes is the "classic" hero type and a lot of people find him boring, I feel like he'll be pretty fun to play as

That feeling when you look at the date of the post and realize it's a strong possibility.

 

[Tony at Home]

do you really want me to do your homework just like I did the others guy homework in allstar superman guide? Pls go and watch that treath to get the idea that if I talk about a superior combo it is true, always true. Also, you shoudn't consider 22 low scoop as a combo because one, scoop can be done from 111, 11, 1, 22, 2, d1, b1 and so on, and two 223 is not a mixup, every player can block low and react to that slow ass over head, and the ones that can't deserve to be punished. Also only way i'm seeing you entering with 22 is with a jump attack because seriously who will fall for a 10 frames short string like that?

Oh, so your combo doesn't start off with 22 low scoop?

Then it's not a replacement.

I clearly said, best damage you can get off 22-scoop for 1 bar, mid screen, with trait activated mid combo.

 

[M-Aran-X]

Oh, so your combo doesn't start off with 22 low scoop?

Then it's not a replacement.

I clearly said, best damage you can get off 22-scoop for 1 bar, mid screen, with trait activated mid combo.

thats your conclusion after everything I said? ok, forget about everything I said, you can keep discovering things by yourself.

 

[Tony at Home]

Yup, because if your combo doesn't start with 22 low scoop and meet the same conditions, any "optimization" you might have for the combo to increase the damage isn't really an optimization, it's an entirely new combo. Combos are grouped by their start-up strings for a reason, as well as meter usage and screen position. Change one of those elements and you need to have an optimal BnB for it.

Because you couldn't find any way to get more damage off a mid-screen, 1 bar mid-combo trait that starts with 22-low scoop, you opted to go the route of just saying 22-low scoop should never be used anyway. Doesn't matter if 22-low scoop actually is that bad and should never be used, it holds that as of now, 22-low scoop 1(1)-trait f2-ice breath, b3, j3, 3, flying punch is the most optimal 1-bar you can get off that starter.

 

[PaYizT]

you can get more damage, believe me. There is a better combo, I'm still making my supes guide and I have a better combo. Just like that last combo I posted. I'm gonna share my tech, don't worry but you have to understand that this patch can change all and I think it will be the last one so you have to be careful in sharing things before that. Look at what happened with other otgs like flash and wonder woman so be careful.

Looking foward to what you come up with =)
I still feel like i'am not using my superman to his full potential but im just waiting for the patch notes so i could learn some of the matchups i have trouble with , heck maybe some of his other strings might became viable

 

[Catnip_Her0]

Dam u payzit and your crazy ass superman lol ggs tho.

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

NERF HIIIIIIIIIIIIIM

 

[PaYizT]

superman is now kano tier iamtrading in my injustice for gamestop credit =(

 

[ZeroYiggs]

thats your conclusion after everything I said? ok, forget about everything I said, you can keep discovering things by yourself.

Would you care to share your awesome tech now?