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Tech The Flash : Best Anti-Wakeups of the game ?

P

PrinceCola

Mortal
Poem for the Flash:

You get knocked down and try to get up
But The Flash keeps fucking it up
Dodging your wakeup with his forward kick
It's pretty sick
Hopefully he gets nerfed
Just like Kabal



Thank you.
 
SaJa

SaJa

FH_FenriR
Mr Got Merked said:
MMH's bf3 stops all wake-ups. Invincible frames or not, just need to time correctly. And it works for against 100% of the cast, even Lex's CC
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100% of the cast ? I don't think so. Flash has a speed dodge, as you can see it vs mmh on my video and speed dodge can be used as a wakeup and punish mmh for trying so. Even mmh' super will whiff :>

Qwark28 said:
This character is so stupid. 50/50s for 55% into more safe 50/50s which if you block correctly you enter another 50/50.

Now this.
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Yeah, I like the fact that Flash is feared by people without being S+ tier.
He is very solid, but people still believe he is not top 5 and most pros don't even place him top 10 (reo) which at least means he is not OP. We don't see him that much in tournament as well.
To me, Flash is as dirty as batgirl (she has also free 50/50, resets meterless, anti zoning tools and 54% corner combos) or killerfrost (safe, slide, good zoning, good mobility, 50/50 resets). As long as they still have some weaknesses (not like BA/Sup prepatch) make those characters fine to me.

This anti-wakeups are good, but it's not like garanteed everytimes you are doing so. Against batgirl for example, if you f3 she can dd3 you, if you speed dodge she can wheel you, so unless taking risks you have to respect her wakeups or have a good read.
Against NW, the f3 timing changes from a wakeup to another and against character like Aquaman, you can f3 him freely no matter what.

Also, parries kills f3 (batman, zod, etc).
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
SaJa said:
100% of the cast ? I don't think so. Flash has a speed dodge, as you can see it vs mmh on my video and speed dodge can be used as a wakeup and punish mmh for trying so. Even mmh' super will whiff :>




Yeah, I like the fact that Flash is feared by people. He is very solid, but people still believe he is not top 5 and most pros don't even place him top 10 (reo) which at least means he is not OP.
To me, Flash is as dirty as batgirl (she has also free 50/50, resets meterless and anti zoning + 54% corner combos) or killerfrost (safe, slide, good zoning, good mobility, 50/50 resets). As long as they still have some weaknesses (not like BA/Sup prepatch) make those characters fine to me.

This anti-wakeups are good, but it's not like garanteed everytimes you are doing so. Against batgirl for example, if you f3 she can dd3 you, if you speed dodge she can wheel you, so unless taking risks you have to respect her wakeups or have a good read.
Against Superman, the f3 timing change from a wakeup to another and against character like Aquaman, you can f3 him freely no matter what.

Also, parries kills f3 (batman, zod, etc).
Click to expand...
He just takes a bit of patience to get in and B2, while good is not as dominant as other normals.

I would've been fine with all his BS but it honestly is too much to also buff his dash. He has so many things which you must respect at all times, even not moving to do so. With Joker this matchup is hell because I can't move at all and have to play a reaction game vs a char who punishes all mistakes for half a lifebar.

Dangerous wakeups will not be done unless the read is perfect, you shouldn't be abusing the F3 setup all day long.
 
SaJa

SaJa

FH_FenriR
Qwark28 said:
He just takes a bit of patience to get in and B2, while good is not as dominant as other normals.

I would've been fine with all his BS but it honestly is too much to also buff his dash. He has so many things which you must respect at all times, even not moving to do so. With Joker this matchup is hell because I can't move at all and have to play a reaction game vs a char who punishes all mistakes for half a lifebar.

Dangerous wakeups will not be done unless the read is perfect, you shouldn't be abusing the F3 setup all day long.
Click to expand...

Without his dash, Flash would have every single zoners of the game as a bad matchup. He needed a dash buff or speed dodge buff or something to deal with keep away.

About the Joker, imo, just like Shazam, he has not been buffed enough.
Btw, do you think Joker is still bottom or mid ? Jackal is keeping saying this char is a good mid now, but imo he is still bottom 2 from the buffs I've seen, but since I still didn't play against him after the patch I may be wrong.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
SaJa said:
Without his dash, Flash would have every single zoners of the game as a bad matchup.

About the Joker, imo, just like Shazam, he has not been buffed enough.
Btw, do you think Joker is still bottom or mid ? Jackal is keeping saying this char is a good mid now, but imo he is still bottom 2 from the buffs I've seen, but since I still didn't play against him after the patch I may be wrong.
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Thing is, when he finally does get in it's always a coinflip where you lose half life to get in, he needs 4-5 combos to kill you and even if he doesn't then he's safe and ready to play footsies again, he didn't need the dash nerf and the reason I was saying the buffs are stupid and that he wasn't low tier prepatch was because there was bound to be a situation where his 50/50s and huge damage would prevail.

I think that Joker was bottom 5 prepatch and top 20/bottom 10 after the patch, he is not a bad character but just can't stand up to the top tiers, that's about it. A smart and patient Joker is very dangerous.
 
SaJa

SaJa

FH_FenriR
Qwark28 said:
I think that Joker was bottom 5 prepatch and top 20/bottom 10 after the patch, he is not a bad character but just can't stand up to the top tiers, that's about it. A smart and patient Joker is very dangerous.
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bottom 5, top 20 is the same, there are like 26 char in the game by now :D

Flash was bottom 5 prepatch for many reasons (don't forget his charge MB was useless before the buff) and for most of people (when you watch back to the old bottom threads). His dash forward was as short as his back dash, no projectiles, the worse AA of the game, and you had to take even more risks to get in with his normal bf2 that was too obvious since it was is only (unsafe) option. No chip, no meter fuel on block.

After you can take in consideration his 90% garanteed OTG (combo, 32 + sonic pound trait reset) but this had to be patched anyway.

He needed his buff dash but now the real debat to me is : Is his buff dash too much buffed ?

I dunno, even know character like batman or BA can zone him to death.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
SaJa said:
bottom 5, top 20 is the same, there are like 26 char in the game by now :D

Flash was bottom 5 prepatch for many reasons (don't forget his charge MB was useless before the buff) and for most of people (when you watch back to the old bottom threads). His dash forward was as short as his back dash, no projectiles, the worse AA of the game, and you had to take even more risks to get in with his normal bf2 that was too obvious since it was is only (unsafe) option.

After you can take in consideration his 90% garanteed OTG (combo, 32 + sonic pound trait reset) but this had to be patched anyway.

He needed his buff dash but now the real debat to me is : Is his buff dash too much buffed ?

I dunno, even know character like batman or BA can zone him to death.
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Nah, I'm talking about the dash strictly, with the current stuff that's going on he didn't really need his dash. BA now is much more manageable, even though earlier it was only 6-4, IDK about Batman but if I can get in on some of the best batmen with Joker who can't open people up then I expect Flash can too.

28 characters so far. I'd consider him maybe top 15 soon, just have to see. He does not win any matchups but he really doesn't get 7 3d by so many people now. GL, Sinestro and Aquaman are the only massive problems.
 
SaJa

SaJa

FH_FenriR
Qwark28 said:
28 characters so far. I'd consider him maybe top 15 soon, just have to see. He does not win any matchups but he really doesn't get 7 3d by so many people now. GL, Sinestro and Aquaman are the only massive problems.
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Not HG ?

If The Joker is higher than before, so I consider Shazam as the worse character right now.

About flash, he is the new JC, deal with it :D Imo, just like many other flash players I think they should buff his trait recovery to 10sec instead of 20, nerfs a lot his trait damage combos (it doesn't only make damage, Flash does like 6 specials in the combo so it takes back the bar he wasted to do so, so big combos wouldn't still be useless with such a nerf), fix his trait resets after a wagger, and MAYBE allow him to be able to block while his trait is active.

About the pushblock cancelling his trait I'm not sure because Flash can dodge the pushblock and with a 10sec trait you can give him many try.


That would make him more interesting and more attractive. His trait would be used for pressure and not braindead combos even if I like the idea that big damages combos make turnaround situations (like shazam prepatch, bane, superman, BA, etc..).
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
One thing being JC, whole different thing being a coinflip char with the best damage in the game.
 
SaJa

SaJa

FH_FenriR
Qwark28 said:
One thing being JC, whole different thing being a coinflip char with the best damage in the game.
Click to expand...

JC has a great dash, meterless reset + great chip (instead of big damage), the coinflip was his f33(b3), he has an unsafe charge, and not really good projectiles. JC was also a beast in corner.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
SaJa said:
JC has a great dash, meterless reset + great chip (instead of big damage), the coinflip was his f33(b3), he has an unsafe charge, and not really good projectiles. JC was also a beast in corner.
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I dont wanna derail this thread so ill just say that a 7 per cent move into pressure is not equal to 60% coinflip that leads into the corner and into 2 more coinflips which either finish you off or let flash still be right next to his opp.
im not saying hes op or need nerfs, im saying wake up and stop downplaying your char.
 
SaJa

SaJa

FH_FenriR
Qwark28 said:
I dont wanna derail this thread so ill just say that a 7 per cent move into pressure is not equal to 60% coinflip that leads into the corner and into 2 more coinflips which either finish you off or let flash still be right next to his opp.
im not saying hes op or need nerfs, im saying wake up and stop downplaying your char.
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I'm not downplaying my char, to me he is top 10. I just defend him when people talk about him like he is S+ tier or something (not saying you do).

When people talk about his strengh, I always talk about his weaknesses to make their though balanced. But when I do so obviously people say I'm a downplayer. :/
 
Dr. Handsome

Dr. Handsome

Mortal
Qwark28 said:
He just takes a bit of patience to get in and B2, while good is not as dominant as other normals.

I would've been fine with all his BS but it honestly is too much to also buff his dash. He has so many things which you must respect at all times, even not moving to do so. With Joker this matchup is hell because I can't move at all and have to play a reaction game vs a char who punishes all mistakes for half a lifebar.

Dangerous wakeups will not be done unless the read is perfect, you shouldn't be abusing the F3 setup all day long.
Click to expand...
Right, this totally doesn't apply to green lantern.
 
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