Breakthrough - Grandmaster The Eulogy of Thomas Brady: R.I.P. SubZero 2011-2015

[God Confirm]

Tom fucked up a lot of times I feel bad for him, nobody expected him to beat Sonic though, but as per usual TB's biggest downfall is himself. Sonic is the more consistent play, thanks to both for some entertaining matches

 

[Doombawkz]

That's just a fancy option select. Whatever break you want to cut tom because he lost %s on Cassie's tight box or proximity clones you have to also cut sonic for those ridiculously instant air guns and ballsy corner combos.

Uh... Except no. One is something controllable by a player (the air guns and corner combos), the other is a detriment that can't be overcome.
You can practice and get air guns and ballsy combos down packed. No amount of practice will make Cassie's hitbox any bigger.

Thats like saying someone who had his hand chopped off is equally handicapped as someone who can juggle. "Because juggling is hard, so that makes it even."

 

[ismael4790]

I liked a lot the way Tom played. Still one of the best ( if not the best) Sub-Zeros. Some of the matches were very even, and that's impressive considering who he was playing against.

 

[trufenix]

Uh... Except no. One is something controllable by a player (the air guns and corner combos), the other is a detriment that can't be overcome.
You can practice and get air guns and ballsy combos down packed. No amount of practice will make Cassie's hitbox any bigger.

So, whereas Sonic leveled up and came up with strats that minimize Tom's options in this very specific matchup, Sub players just get a pass on learning how to deal with small hit boxes?

 

[Doombawkz]

So, whereas Sonic leveled up and came up with strats that minimize Tom's options in this very specific matchup, Sub players just get a pass on learning how to deal with small hit boxes?

Assuming Sonic ascended to a level above all other players in comprehension, he still has all of his options. One of them is picking a female hitbox.
Also "learning to deal with smaller hitboxes" and "everything becomes sub optimal because you picked a female hitbox" are different things. You can't LEARN to deal with small hitboxes and then get the same results as a large hitbox target. No matter how good you get, your options still get limited just from what gender your opponent is.

Like if Tom couldn't be juggled more than once with a flipkick in a combo, and sonic had to reduce his 45% combo to a 28% combo, the matches probably would've gone differently too.

 

[IrishMantis]

One thing I learned

Is Sonic hates blocking high

 

[trufenix]

Assuming Sonic ascended to a level above all other players in comprehension, he still has all of his options. One of them is picking a female hitbox.
Also "learning to deal with smaller hitboxes" and "everything becomes sub optimal because you picked a female hitbox" are different things. You can't LEARN to deal with small hitboxes and then get the same results as a large hitbox target. No matter how good you get, your options still get limited just from what gender your opponent is.

Like I said, option select. No one would ever say "No matter how good you get, your options still get limited just because your opponent has a clone/dp/command grab/free hit of armor/post round resurrection gimmick/etc" but that's exactly the situation here.

Which is ironic, because we're talking about Sub Zero, the ONLY character in the game who gets to "limit your options" with a giant wall of full combo punish any time he wants.

I would sooner champion the guy who tirumphed against the ONE character in the game with a clone than the guy who struggled bravely against a problem you encounter in 25% of your matchups.

 

[GAV]

Who the fuck is Pnut?

 

[FL Rushdown]

Cassie lands about 41-45% per BnB.
Sub is resigned to settle for about 31% for a bar and thats with a good set-up, otherwise it dips to being about 28%. Usually he can collect the same damage as cassie on other characters.

Tom landed 41% combos on Cassie too. Please stop with the bullshit crying about only doing 25-30% damage cause of the hitbox. Tom lost more dmg on bad reads and drops than he did because of Cassie's hitbox.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

3D boys

 

[Thanilla Ice]

Like I said, option select. No one would ever say "No matter how good you get, your options still get limited just because your opponent has a clone/dp/command grab/free hit of armor/post round resurrection gimmick/etc" but that's exactly the situation here.

Which is ironic, because we're talking about Sub Zero, the ONLY character in the game who gets to "limit your options" with a giant wall of full combo punish any time he wants.

I would sooner champion the guy who tirumphed against the ONE character in the game with a clone than the guy who struggled bravely against a problem you encounter in 25% of your matchups.

Ayeeeee

 

[Error404]

Sub also gets b33 ice ball mid screen on females , so there you go.

 

[Crusty]

As a part time writer this is all I have to say

 

[Thanilla Ice]

Sonic ate soo many B2s this whole set and Tom kept dropping the combos but we won't talk about that. People just enjoy bringing others that are in top down by down playing their feats and making excuses instead of giving respect where its due. To be able to consistently IA gun behind a klone without fear of eating 30%+ is a trophy in itself. I commend you for that Sonic...

 

[Doombawkz]

Tom landed 41% combos on Cassie too. Please stop with the bullshit crying about only doing 25-30% damage cause of the hitbox. Tom lost more dmg on bad reads and drops than he did because of Cassie's hitbox.

Show me a time when 40% combos don't require a small act of miracle to achieve, because from what I saw every combo was in the area of 28- 32% at the most, when sub is able to achieve almost 12% more and doesn't have to spend a bar for it

 

[crosshair271]

Sub can get massive universal damage on females in the corner just like on the men. I kept trying to help Tom learn this tech but he refused and bashed me and others instead. He said the same thing for shatters being garbage, F12 not being better than NJK and not working on females. He always says he doesn't like doing harder combos due to risk but honestly it will catch up to you in the end. I also noticed he doesn't whiff Klone after Iceball conversion for free meter and positioning for the JIP. He also didn't JIP for more damage after Iceball unless it was a crossover to put the opponent into the corner. He says he hates playing on stages where the opponent can interactable to jump out. He stood still many times when his opponent goes to wall jump out or just did an empty jump instead of jump attacking them into the Klone. He hates how Klone goes away on block yet always stand blocks when people jump over instead of ducking, low profiling or backdashing for invincibility. Anyone who isn't getting damage on females using G-Master Sub, use these combos.

 

[M.D.]

Broken as fuck....

 

[GAV]

Sub can get massive universal damage on females in the corner just like on the men. I kept trying to help Tom learn this tech but he refused and bashed me and others instead. He said the same thing for shatters being garbage, F12 not being better than NJK and not working on females. He always says he doesn't like doing harder combos due to risk but honestly it will catch up to you in the end. I also noticed he doesn't whiff Klone after Iceball conversion for free meter and positioning for the JIP. He also didn't JIP for more damage after Iceball unless it was a crossover to put the opponent into the corner. He says he hates playing on stages where the opponent can interactable to jump out. He stood still many times when his opponent goes to wall jump out or just did an empty jump instead of jump attacking them into the Klone. He hates how Klone goes away on block yet always stand blocks when people jump over instead of ducking, low profiling or backdashing for invincibility. Anyone who isn't getting damage on females using G-Master Sub, use these combos.

Who does Sub Zero think he is, Bill Cosby?

 

[Colest]

Tom landed 41% combos on Cassie too. Please stop with the bullshit crying about only doing 25-30% damage cause of the hitbox. Tom lost more dmg on bad reads and drops than he did because of Cassie's hitbox.

Tom also spent 2 bars to do that.

 

[Obscurity]

Knowing Tom Brady's history being a part of the MK community, you can't help but laugh when you see a thead titled like that. xD

 

[Pnut]

Tom also spent 2 bars to do that.

It was definitely meterless in the corner.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Inb4 EX vomit does not work properly

 

[God Confirm]

Assuming Sonic ascended to a level above all other players in comprehension, he still has all of his options. One of them is picking a female hitbox.
Also "learning to deal with smaller hitboxes" and "everything becomes sub optimal because you picked a female hitbox" are different things. You can't LEARN to deal with small hitboxes and then get the same results as a large hitbox target. No matter how good you get, your options still get limited just from what gender your opponent is.

Like if Tom couldn't be juggled more than once with a flipkick in a combo, and sonic had to reduce his 45% combo to a 28% combo, the matches probably would've gone differently too.

I just gotta point out that it's quite challenging but you can very consistently do any wall combo on Cassie.


However if this WASN'T the case, him saying that it's fair for Sub to have his options restricted and his BnB's damage cut in half, because his Clone restricts other characters options, is another new level of silliness. He's already balanced around the Clone and his damage reflects it, cutting it in half again would NOT make him "more" balanced especially not in this match up, and as such only proves your point.

However it CAN be done so he's right, he's just driving the wrong points here.

 

[Doombawkz]

I just gotta point out that it's quite challenging but you can very consistently do any wall combo on Cassie.


However if this WASN'T the case, him saying that it's fair for Sub to have his options restricted and his BnB's damage cut in half, because his Clone restricts other characters options, is another new level of silliness. He's already balanced around the Clone and his damage reflects it, cutting it in half again would NOT make him "more" balanced especially not in this match up, and as such only proves your point.

However it CAN be done so he's right, he's just driving the wrong points here.

Being able to do wall combos and them being possible with consistency are different things.
To say that the difference in juggle physics makes no difference isn't entirely true.

 

[God Confirm]

Being able to do wall combos and them being possible with consistency are different things.
To say that the difference in juggle physics makes no difference isn't entirely true.

I didn't say the difference in juggle physics makes no difference, it will make a hard combo even harder. However the point being made was that Sonic was consistently pulling off extremely hard iAG's. So I can kinda see the point being made. You can't write off execution difficulty of his combo's being ramped up by the female hitbox as an excuse for the loss, when Sonic was pulling off similarly hard in execution insta's.